Trespassers/Poachers

[soileauj]

So on Saturday, at about 6:05 AM I'm setting on my leased property just watching an area where I've seen a few nice tom's on my cams.

All of a sudden I hear voices and the next I know 2 guys walking with their guns, decoys and calls happen to walk right up on me as they didn't see me. Now season isn't open yet, no youngsters to indicate youth hunting. So I ask what are you guys doing here and one of them says "we were just cutting through to get to our house." mm, not it's 6 am. At this point I'm not armed, not that I needed to be I guess but very awkward moment. I asked that they leave. So later in the day I'm checking my cams and happen to have one from the direction that they walked in from and see that one of them actually tried to remove the card.

 

Sorry to be long winded but I'm p'od. I have both of them on the cam and not sure what good it does me. The property is in Oneonta and this is my first year leasing and getting back into hunting hopefully undisturbed. I know that they know where the turkeys have been because that is exactly where they were heading. 

 

Just wondering what you would have done and can you suggest what I may consider to deal with this in the future. I'm more concerned at this point of not knowing that someone is hunting on the property when I'm hunting. This is how accidents happen. Especially walking in the woods early before daylight or moving around through what should be private property. From everyone's safety and viewpoint.

 

Thanks but I just had to vent. I'll be out there this coming weekend and may get a nice Tom if they haven't killed them already. 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2015 by soileauj

[Paula]

I think you did all you could do

[Curmudgeon]

There would be no harm in calling the DEC law enforcement. They may be known to the local ECO. Even if hunting out of season and trespassing cannot be proven, they attempted petty larceny.  A visit from him might discourage them from going on the property again.

[growalot]

I would have called the DEC immediately...and 911, I would have been on the phone with the 911 operator as I spoke to them. Had they noticed me. Would have also got a pic on my phone....Then if they were coming in from a road would have gone to the road and gotten a plate # if they were dumb enough to continue on...I also wouldn't have been sitting in the spring woods unarmed at that time...bears are out and Mommas with cubs...it's not illegal to have a rifle for chuck hunting so having that protection if needed is important...also rabid animals have been shot already this year...another thing to consider

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Is the property properly posted?

[growalot]

Posted or not...they were armed with guns and decoys and NO Kids

Edited April 27, 2015 by growalot

[thphm]

What can be done?. It is not your property. If they fool with your camera, As said above is the property posted.Does the land owner have to file a complaint ?.

[bkln]

Report them, walking and trespassing with guns in the woods out of season is "prima facie" proof of hunting, they don't have to be shooting at anything. I see at least 3 violations and you have proof on camera.

[beachpeaz]

You absolutely need to call the DEC.  They could be known guys in the area that have been busted before.  Usually law enforcement knows EXACTLY what door to knock on first.

 

Regardless if they shot or not, it is illegal to be doing anything associated to huntiing out of season (AKA:  carrying a gun and a decoy would be the same penelty as if they had shot the actual turkey).

 

If nothing else, it sends a message to people when the DEC do start knocking on some doors (and they will if you have proof on a camera).

 

Do not let it go un-reported.  If everyone who encountered the same issues you did reported it, we would have a much better hunting experience.  Unfortunately, most people turn a blind eye which just reinforces bad habits!

[MACHINIST]

There would be no harm in calling the DEC law enforcement. They may be known to the local ECO. Even if hunting out of season and trespassing cannot be proven, they attempted petty larceny.  A visit from him might discourage them from going on the property again.

 

If you have pics of them messing with your cam I would be on the horn to the DEC.I would also say that they send pics via email so DNFW your cams!!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Posted or not...they were armed with guns and decoys and NO Kids

Totally understand Grow. We all know what they were up to, Was asking to see what the options could be. We all know how easily some of the excuses can roll out to get out of a ticket and how frequently those poaching actually get busted. Was focusing more on an angle that takes any excuses and officers "discretion" out of it.

[growalot]

So lets be clear..it would be illegal to be out with a shot gun with  turkey or bird load out of season...but there is still legal hunting of vermin ...wood chucks... so it is not illegal to be carrying a rifle and one should consider what type of animals they are sitting in the dark with. Having protection should be on ones mind when being at ground level with animals.

 

BTW...that encounter...NO

 OFFENSE meant here, could be taken as a open season for guys like that...call the DEC...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Report them, walking and trespassing with guns in the woods out of season is "prima facie" proof of hunting, they don't have to be shooting at anything. I see at least 3 violations and you have proof on camera.

#1  trespassing- if posted properly?

#2  hunting out of season- k (can I have a gun on me while walking in the woods a week before deer season?) I wear my old camo up at camp for work clothes all the time and seem to always have a gun on me. Am I braking a law?  I am not excusing them but looking at it from an enforcement side.

 

What is #3?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So lets be clear..it would be illegal to be out with a shot gun with  turkey or bird load out of season...but there is still legal hunting of vermin ...wood chucks...

you can shot them with shotguns

[fasteddie]

Personally when I hunt I ask where the property lines are . Knowing that , I don't hunt an area that I don't have permission to hunt whether there are posted signs or not . I sent pics of Trespassers from a trail cam to my SIL but she couldn't identify them . They walked / Rode ( couple on ATV ) right past two posted signs .

[growalot]

That's right Culver but he mentioned decoys and usually turkey shot isn't used on chucks is it? But that aside.... you mentioned before season...Well there was a season at the time, if he's talking this past weekend...and the season was youth and being out in the woods with shot guns,turkey shot,decoys ..WITHOUT a KID is illegal period.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

That's right Culver but he mentioned decoys and usually turkey shot isn't used on chucks is it? But that aside.... you mentioned before season...Well there was a season at the time, if he's talking this past weekend...and the season was youth and being out in the woods with shot guns,turkey shot,decoys ..WITHOUT a KID is illegal period.

Technically there was not an adult season. If they got a ticket I would have probably been for hunting out of season. and as far as"turkey shot" goes, I just use high brass #5's, same as show shoes and pheasants. It is a very good nuisance shot. My only point in posting on this was, if posted legally, the trespass might be the easiest way to take on the issue.

[ATbuckhunter]

Make sure the property is posted and call the local DEC officer. If you can print out a picture and give it to him...he may know who they are and might give some insight with how to deal with them. Its painfully obvious what they were doing and they should be ticketed for it. If they didn't have a gun with them, I would think they are setting up for a kid but they would still be trespassing. My advise would be to talk to them in a very nice and respectful tone but at the same time be stern. It would amaze you how being respectful can help you, even though they disrespected you by trespassing and trying to hunt on your land out of season.  

[growalot]

Again "properly" well he physically found them on the land and the land meets the criteria of being used.. Considering his presence and the cams he has installed ...going for trespassing regardless of being "properly posted" should not be an issue..as far as ECO discretion, well I've learned that Saying no isn't an option and now press the issue to where main offices are called  and complaints made and written complaints to Albany when local divisions want to play games. They don't like to have to do the work involved in tickets so the old well we gave them a warning gets involved...Too dang bad, if I'm willing to sign a complaint then they best get the tickets filled out. So again here is the DEC web definition for those that are unclear..(not say you Culver)

 

Posted Property/Trespass Posting Requirements

Question: What are the "POSTED" signs requirements?
Answer: The posting law specifies the maximum distance between signs is 660 ft., the minimum size of the signs is 11 inches square and the area covered by the printing is a minimum of 80 sq. inches. Signs can be no more than 660 feet apart. The signs should, however, be placed close enough together to be seen and at a height that is easily visible. Posted signs must have the name and address of the person authorized to post the property. Each side of all corners of the property must be marked with posted signs, so that corners can be reasonably ascertained. There is no requirement that signs be "seen," and in fact, the land is still posted for a period of one year even if the signs are illegally removed by unauthorized persons the day they are put up. This illustrates the importance of seeking permission to enter private land, regardless of whether of not it is posted.

 

Question: Can I be arrested for trespass if I didn't see any posted signs?
Answer: Yes. Your hunting license does not give you the right to trespass on private property. It is your responsibility to find out who the land owner is and ask their permission whether the property is posted or not. The New York State Penal Law makes it an offense to enter any land without permission.

 

Question: If a property is not posted, does that mean I can hunt there?
Answer: All property is owned by somebody. The lack of posted signs, fences or other man made objects does not imply that you may enter to hunt, fish or trap. It is your responsibility to obtain permission to enter private lands or waters. Public lands and waters may or may not have restrictions that can be found by contacting the municipality owning the lands.

 

Question: If I shoot a deer and it runs onto posted property, do I have the legal right to go on the property to retrieve it?
Answer: No. You should locate the landowner, explain the situation, and ask permission. If the landowner refuses, the hunter will not be able to enter the property. The DEC cannot compel a landowner to grant access. If the hunter has reason to believe that the landowner intends to illegally possess the deer, it should be reported to the nearest Environmental Conservation Officer.

 

 

 

BTW that last one...only if the deer was touched by the land owner with out a proper tag on it...other wise not illegal to let it rot on the land...

Edited April 27, 2015 by growalot

[soileauj]

Guys I thank all of you for responding. I am raching out to the DEC as suggested.
The property is very well marked and posted on all sides. Plus I've added additional posted signs with my name and number. I do have a binding lease so as for as I'm concerned it is my property for the lenght of the lease. These guys live in the close proximity as they walked over.

I know going up wtihout my rifle was not very smart, I left it in the car, but that will not happen again. I do have a bear on the property as I've seen him on one of my cams.

 

ATbuck, that is exactly what I did. It was not a very comfrotable feeling sitting their with no protection looking at 2 shotguns that seemed to very well equipped with the latest technology. A bit intimidating. Interestingly they didn't leave the way they came as viewed by the cmaera that caught them walking up the road.

Guys thanks again.

 

[soileauj]

Just spoke with Officer Card and will be sending cam pictures. He was very polite and interested in getting the photos. Also suggested I odn't go out again without some sort of protection due to the possibility of running into an aggressive bear although it is not likely.

Thanks again all

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Guys I thank all of you for responding. I am raching out to the DEC as suggested.

The property is very well marked and posted on all sides. Plus I've added additional posted signs with my name and number. I do have a binding lease so as for as I'm concerned it is my property for the lenght of the lease. These guys live in the close proximity as they walked over.

I know going up wtihout my rifle was not very smart, I left it in the car, but that will not happen again. I do have a bear on the property as I've seen him on one of my cams.

 

ATbuck, that is exactly what I did. It was not a very comfrotable feeling sitting their with no protection looking at 2 shotguns that seemed to very well equipped with the latest technology. A bit intimidating. Interestingly they didn't leave the way they came as viewed by the cmaera that caught them walking up the road.

Guys thanks again.

Go get them. I bet they will be "known" by LEO's

[NYBowhunter]

Forget the call, print out the pictures and head out of Oneonta on Rt. 23 heading east for approx. 20 minutes and pay a visit to the local DEC on rt10 in Stamford. I hate tresspassers. Good luck.

[ATbuckhunter]

I would say its never wise to walk into the woods with out some kind of firearm as protection unless in archery season. Did they seem to understand what you were saying or did you get the feeling they were blowing you off?

[phade]

I'd also print copies of the pictures and place them in zip lock baggies and post them on every posted tree on the property. Then, I'd turn around and staple the picture to every telephone pole on the road they likely live on, post them in each local supermarket grocery store wanted/for sale billboard, etc. I'd also ask for a few business cards from the ECO...print out a couple copies and adhere them to the same trees on the border.

 

Make it so these people (in addition the the legal means) feel like its no longer worth the trouble. If they still do, then you can really hammer home on catching them with the ECO.