Really! Does only.....

[hondamx32]

I was taught the "old school" way growing up, not harvest any does and shoot the first legal buck that presented an ethical shot.  Right around 2004 we bought a new piece of property and purchased a book by the Doughertys which to this day is still the best management book I have read.  Since then we have been harvesting does and passing bucks.  The moral to this story is what changed our mentality was education, I know it will not work for all but it may work for some.  BTW I am all for the one buck rule. 

[phade]

And even more so for the hunter that shoots a buck early.  Only option is doe is they want to continue to hunt.  I would be in favor of the OBR.

 

Good thing there's plenty of does to keep me busy while you guys are still chasing your bucks. Zinnggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg.

 

October bucks are a blessing and a curse.

[Doc]

I have no problem with a one-buck rule, but if the goal really is to whack the population of deer down, I don't know why they are not promoting a few days of gun season that are doe-only. Perhaps opening weekend would decimate the herd to the DEC's liking. Doe-only is the most effective way to trim the herd, but put it in a season where it will actually do some good. That is assuming that they are serious about cutting the herd. Where they decided to put the doe-only season does put their real motives in serious question.

[gjs4]

It is so archers push back and the early ml is their "compromise" ... Just watch.

[NYBuckHunter27]

It is so archers push back and the early ml is their "compromise" ... Just watch.

 i wouldnt be opposed to an early ML if it included a buck tag

[LetEmGrow]

I have no problem with a one-buck rule, but if the goal really is to whack the population of deer down, I don't know why they are not promoting a few days of gun season that are doe-only. Perhaps opening weekend would decimate the herd to the DEC's liking. Doe-only is the most effective way to trim the herd, but put it in a season where it will actually do some good. That is assuming that they are serious about cutting the herd. Where they decided to put the doe-only season does put their real motives in serious question.

 

Whack the population or make people think there are more deer than there are.  But - in any event - I agree that there motives are misguided.

[LetEmGrow]

Thats a good start, and I want to see that happen. I dont really see that as a solution to any population problems though. I feel that a one buck rule will cause alot more people to be choosy about the buck they harvest, but thats for another thread. I dont think one buck tag will ease any emphasis on shooting bucks though.

I think the second buck tag being available for the WMUs that need does taken as nothing more than an incentive to get harvest numbers inline with ehat they want, without taking choice away from anyone, or sticking an early muzzle loader season in place. I didnt come up with that idea, I heard it from a few people seperately, thought about it and agree that it might work. Theres no guarantees it would work, but its worth a shot.

I also agree with people that say making doe tags available to anyone over the counter in those WMUs would be a good way to go.

 

Well, here are my opinions on the issue.  BTW - try the slick tricks or the Muzzy Trocar.

 

1.  If I harvest a buck with my bow (assuming 15% do) I am still going to go out on opening day and I am going to shoot a doe soon after.  I have no choice.

 

2.  Most hunters will hunt deer if there is some open season.  If it is doe only - they will still go.

 

3.  If the firearm season was only one week, it will cut down on the people filling buck tags for others.  This problem is rapant.  While most will not illegally shoot a deer out of season, they will if it is in season and once the tag finds the ear - done deal.  Good luck proving it.  

 

4.  Forget about success.  It is the mindset of the hunter.  This goes back to #1.  I hear many guys say, "Well, I killed a buck and a doe with my bow.  I am going to go during gun season but I really do not need the meat".  In other words, I am only hunting for a buck.  If they could only shoot does they would. Just to be out there.

 

5.  If the season I that short then a hunter will be more likely to harvest a doe on 5+ day since the season is winding down and not so long drawn out with weather changes, football, honey-dos, and the like.

 

6.  If the one week gun season reverts back to bow season for another two months after gun season (taking the Ohio Sept. 19 - Feb. 8th archery season in to consideration) then, once again, people will go especially if they see deer somewhere that are easy to get at late in the season like that.  Pick a few off here, pick a few off there and you have success (most years) in meeting your goals.

 

*** Yea someone might shoot a buck that has already lost it's horns but if you do the research - this rarely happens. ****

 

When I look at it analytically - you get two buck tags, a huge amount of time to shoot an antlered deer, and then another 10 days to fill any un-filled tag.  In the Southern Tier - you can kill two bucks with you MLoader. 

 

And don't forget about nuisance permits, which really has not been discussed much here.

 

But symantics aside - I don't know if I believe the state has an over-population problem.  But I do respect the opinions of many who claim they live somewhere that it is. 

Edited June 11, 2015 by LetEmGrow

[phade]

 

 

But symantics aside - I don't know if I believe the state has an over-population problem.  But I do respect the opinions of many who claim they live somewhere that it is. 

 

There are places where there are too many deer just based on observation. No real way to prove it other than our equivalent of "circumstantial evidence." The problem is that WMUs, even broken relatively small, still house big variances of population density. One area can be high and a few miles away could be really underpopulated.

 

One thing to remember is that carrying capacity and the tolerance level of stakeholders in that area are different sometimes. Just because a high ag area might support 30-40dpsm (just throwing a number out there)...doesn't mean the stakeholders believe that range is acceptable. Most hunters want a fair number of deer, some want alot, but most other groups within the stakeholder premise want lower numbers than the hunters who want a "fair" amount.

 

Carry capacity is a great measuring tool for hunters, environmentalists, etc. Not necessarily so for homeowners, insurance parties, farmers, etc.

 

As much as I would support OBR, I do like the idea of making the second buck tag "active" after shooting a doe and reporting it - IF we could use that tag in bow, too.

[nyantler]

 

Yeah, I think you are right. The newbies may have their head in the right place relative to shooting does, but perhaps just don't have the ability necessary to put that "good attitude" into practice .... lol. But I do know that the notion of letting the doe walk in hopes that a buck may be following, still has a lot of popularity among the trophy-ites. Newbies don't seem to have that stuck in their minds yet.

 I guess I am one of those that pass on does early looking for a good buck... I like to save my DMPs for the late muzzleloader because I enjoy that part of the season... I have been fortunate to be able to fill my tags most every year... but can see how many others might not be so lucky if they are doing the same... which would mean that the chance of not filling a dmp is entirely possible for the trophy hunters... even with the best intentions later in the season.

[NYBuckHunter27]

 I guess I am one of those that pass on does early looking for a good buck... I like to save my DMPs for the late muzzleloader because I enjoy that part of the season... I have been fortunate to be able to fill my tags most every year... but can see how many others might not be so lucky if they are doing the same... which would mean that the chance of not filling a dmp is entirely possible for the trophy hunters... even with the best intentions later in the season.

 

This has been my approach to hunting so far, although as this issue continues on and i read what guys have to say on this thread my perception is changing as far as taking more doe for QDMA. Where i have an issue is when guys complain that they don't have opportunities to harvest antlerless deer especially in the targeted WMU's in the DEC's proposal, honestly its on the hunter if he/she doesn't get the opportunity to harvest at least one antleress deer in a entire season or even a specified season, if you want it bad enough you will make the time and effort to be successful. I'm sure many of us, especially on private land could fill DMP's daily during a season. 

 

 

Which brings up my next question, what is a reasonable about of antler less deer to see say in a 3 hour morning sit? its common for me to see groups of 5-6 doe/fawns and a total of 20 deer in a morning sit. i have no idea if that means over population or if the property provides ideal habit and that is why so many deer are present. i believe that is the issue with this proposal, nobody can say what an ideal population of deer would be to make both the DEC and hunting community satisfied.

[phade]

This has been my approach to hunting so far, although as this issue continues on and i read what guys have to say on this thread my perception is changing as far as taking more doe for QDMA. Where i have an issue is when guys complain that they don't have opportunities to harvest antlerless deer especially in the targeted WMU's in the DEC's proposal, honestly its on the hunter if he/she doesn't get the opportunity to harvest at least one antleress deer in a entire season or even a specified season, if you want it bad enough you will make the time and effort to be successful. I'm sure many of us, especially on private land could fill DMP's daily during a season. 

 

 

Which brings up my next question, what is a reasonable about of antler less deer to see say in a 3 hour morning sit? its common for me to see groups of 5-6 doe/fawns and a total of 20 deer in a morning sit. i have no idea if that means over population or if the property provides ideal habit and that is why so many deer are present. i believe that is the issue with this proposal, nobody can say what an ideal population of deer would be to make both the DEC and hunting community satisfied.

 

Why is "see" the standard?

 

What is reasonable depends on the carry capacity, the property itself (all aspects of it, etc.). What is reasonable to one or fitting for one property might be off from the one next door or a mile away.

[orion]

Most sittings I don't see a deer. Unless I position myself where I'm overlooking the neighboring hills/fields, then I'll usually see a deer or two come into a field somewhere in the evening. The days of 5-6 deer together are long gone!

[gjs4]

i wouldnt be opposed to an early ML if it included a buck tag

Whether it included one or not wont matter to the fun hunter who sees a field full of racks for the first time. We are putting the very reason deer hunting can suck in NY first in line..... And with the lack of ECON enforcement it's a given bucks will fall. But wait.... We have new poaching bills going through so maybe it will all change. Lol.

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[gjs4]

Qdma is a balanced herd for increased/diversified age structure. Unless you study and know "your" herd and ground this in unachievable and the state will and cannot help you with this process.

I've always taken does late-'from the ground and from afar. The key to this is know where they'll be based on weather and pressure and having low pressure ground. For small anchorage or heavy pumpkin presence locations without a food source- you've go better odds hitting one on the 90

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[nyantler]

Why is "see" the standard?

 

What is reasonable depends on the carry capacity, the property itself (all aspects of it, etc.). What is reasonable to one or fitting for one property might be off from the one next door or a mile away.

 

And that is it in a nutshell really... not to mention different styles of hunting along with different habitats can have varying success rates as far as seeing deer... which is usually directly related to success rates of killing deer. Then throw in the hunter that isn't exactly proficient with his weapon of choice and BINGO... there ya have it!

[gjs4]

That also leads to varying populations of deer which can easily lead observations done properly askew

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Qdma (Should be QDM, QDMA is an organization not a management approach) is a balanced herd for increased/diversified age structure. Unless you study and know "your" herd and ground this in unachievable and the state will and cannot help you with this process.

I've always taken does late-'from the ground and from afar. The key to this is know where they'll be based on weather and pressure and having low pressure ground. For small anchorage or heavy pumpkin presence locations without a food source- you've go better odds hitting one on the 90

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FYI

[Two Track]

The most deer I have seen together in season was three.  They were running through a thin strip of woods on public land next to a county road, right behind a post office.  All I got sight of was three tails.

 

You don't see herds of deer on huntable public lands by me.  Perhaps on some farmer's private property, but not on the public hunting-allowed lands. 

 

The last time I saw a herd of 20 or more deer, was probably 1989 in Maryland on private land bordering a scout camp  on one side and swamp land along a navigable creek on the other, and perhaps that many in a large meadow in Shenandoah National Park 8 years ago.

[gjs4]

Thanks for the clarification. QDMA collects dues, QDM collects effort. A member of both ....but becoming a fan of less than that.

[dbHunterNY]

Thanks for the clarification. QDMA collects dues, QDM collects effort. A member of both ....but becoming a fan of less than that.

 

I know there's differences you'd see with more involvement in the QDMA versus just being a member.  I know branches donate a lot of money, educational material, and resources toward hunting related education, events, and scholarships for both communities and especially youth.  QDMA very much relies on branch volunteer effort.  Enough effort there'd be no way they'd continue to volunteer if it wasn't something they truly thought could help the future of hunting and was something the believed in more so than not.  I mean it's not their job and they aren't getting paid.  Organized and larger scaled efforts for QDM within a community takes both money and most definitely effort.  Many QDM efforts here in this county and neighboring ones get some help or assistance from the QDMA in some way.  It's really too bad some aspect(s) don't sit well with you.  Not sure this thread is the topic or place but if you're up to it PM me.  I'm curious to know what bothers you about it.  Hopefully something changes and things work out better, so you haven't been to some extent vested for nothing.

[gjs4]

Huge let down with their lack of involvement regarding some of the new and/or proposed regs. Had a few emails with local brass (good guys) and above : / The magazine is worth the money hand I've come to terms with that's about all ill get.

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[dbHunterNY]

Huge let down with their lack of involvement regarding some of the new and/or proposed regs. Had a few emails with local brass (good guys) and above : / The magazine is worth the money hand I've come to terms with that's about all ill get.

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they're working right now on poaching legislation.  DEC is going to hold a meeting this summer to discuss results of those surveys that have been talked about on here and some management plans.  There will be some representation there I believe.  The meeting was already supposed to happen but then for unknown reasons it got postponed.  They're trying but we can't expect NYS DEC to invite or allow them to everything.  Also I'd think there should be seminars, habitat days, and similar educational events going on in your area that are free with your membership.  There are out this way.  There is a lot of useful info in those magazines.  Why PA and other states don't let similar groups in is beyond me.  a survey gets sent out, you hear nothing about how it went, and then all the sudden there are changes that not many are happy with.  can't please everyone, but the general concensus is the chance of shooting a buck the first two weeks of bow shouldn't have been eliminated completely.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Huge let down with their lack of involvement regarding some of the new and/or proposed regs. Had a few emails with local brass (good guys) and above : / The magazine is worth the money hand I've come to terms with that's about all ill get.

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You are more than welcome to come out to our branch's events, though I know its a bit of a drive for you. Theres a branch out in the Buffalo Niagara Falls area that is trying to get going as well.

 

IMO the biggest issue with the QDMA in this state has been that it was not run very well at a state level in the past, and the branches that have been around have pretty much been on their own. The state advisory counsil has been built and funding to drive it is on the way. Things will fall in place alot better now with the new regional director and state advisory council. NY's membership is growing, there are new branches forming and older ones getting fired back up. Its gonna take a little time, but the organization is growing in NY.

 

Some of the NY branches have been spreading the word for members and others to be active and voice their opinions to the DEC on the proposals. Thats about all that can be done with those at this point. As dbhunter said, the NY branches and state council has been pretty active with pushing the new poaching regs along.

 

dbhunter, the QDMA is highly active with things down in PA.

[NYBuckHunter27]

You are more than welcome to come out to our branch's events, though I know its a bit of a drive for you. Theres a branch out in the Buffalo Niagara Falls area that is trying to get going as well.

 

I am interested in this if you have any further information or receive any in the future.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I am interested in this if you have any further information or receive any in the future.

If you are looking for our events, go to our facebook, listed below. If you want more info, PM me and Ill get you on our branch email list.

 

If the branch near NF is what you want, here is their info.

 

• North Western Niagara Branch

  6153 Townline Road

  Lockport, New York 14094

  Contact: Joseph Ciepiela

  • (716) 713-1949 - Phone