Really! Does only.....

[nyantler]

 

I can't believe that they can't remove enough does through the permitting system. Heck, if they are serious about wiping down the deer population, just eliminate the permits completely in select areas and place a daily bag limit like they do down south. I know there are enough game hogs around to knock the hell out of the deer population under those rules. Want to thin them out? ..... legalize jack-lighting. Hunt them with dogs. Open a snare season. Come-on get as ridiculous as you need. Enough of those kinds of rules, and they'll get the herd down to the level where you'll hardly ever see one, which is apparently what they are really after. I mean if you want to eliminate the herd, there are a lot more effective ways of doing it than taking away hunting opportunities from bow hunters (and soon to be x-bow hunters).

 

You're so right.. it like the DEC walks this tight rope all the time with their feet tied together... they are way over thinking easily solved problems. Not really sure why the answer always involves eating away opportunities of the hunter. Even opening bow season to guns  as well would do the trick... oops.. I didn't just say that did I??? Just kidding Doc... But you got to wonder why they haven't offered up that idea yet with all the other ridiculous proposals.

[Bow Addict]

I will guarantee that such a rule will immediately be followed by the biggest buck of my lifetime walking in at 15 yards posing broadside, and then turning around and posing with the other side exposed, followed by a sound that is very much like laughter. 

Correct that ! Followed by the sound of an arrow being released!

[growalot]

When they are making such proposals ...that effect one particular "major" hunting group then they had best put up some #'s to justify these proposals. I'm not talking over all season takes...I want to know how many doe are shot the first 2 weeks of  the Bow season..Then for the areas that get extra tags after Nov1 until gun season...I also want the #'s of those that split tag allotments between an area like 8H and any part of say reg. 7 or 6..in other words high and low doe areas. Of course it is human nature to hold back tagging deer when you hunt multiple seasons and have limited tags from day one...and not always do all ppl "draw" 2 tags on the first try....

Want them to shoot doe...than give them the tags to do so from day one make the decision easy..also do not cause them to stay home the first two weeks ..Who wants to go out on a hunt to watch the biggest buck perhaps of their lives walk by and you can't shoot...I'd rather sit home and not think about it if I were a "trophy" hunter...try not to disturb the area until I can make a real choice...At  least if I had to earn a buck I'd be out there day one shooting a doe and the rest of the two weeks looking for that buck and perhaps willing to shoot a second doe ....If I positively had a doe tag for my gun season. If these ppl making these proposals find it IMPOSSIBLE to get into a deer hunters mind...they will never come up with a sound plan using us as a tool.

[JFB]

SUCH BS! Read carefully, this is like reading the Safe Act and it creates lots of loop holes for the DEC to just nuke deer to please "local stakeholders". They clearly have no interest in pleasing hunters and admit failure to control the herd to these stakeholders liking. I bet there were lots of lawyers involved in writing this so that they know later on they can legally make quick and rash changes to nuke deer and get away with it without accountability. 

 

What really makes no sense is forcing doe harvest in bow season (this is a small segment of hunters) and even if that group arrows the heck out of doe, it won't dent things. They need to force the average hunter (the ones who flood the field for a couple weeks of gun season) to earn a buck and also for everyone to earn a buck. WHO CARES WHEN I SHOOT MY DOE? I'd happily earn a buck by shooting three doe and I'd get it done in the first few days or week. But to wait 15 days makes no sense. 

 

I also love how none of this was in the earlier release proposed reg changes. 

 

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

If 10% of the hunters kill all the deer then maybe they should give more tags to those that can kill them?  I know some that hunt our properties find it hard to take a deer and then there is a couple that take 6-8 a year hunting the same property every year!

 

Throwing more tags at hunters that cant kill will not work....And that they found out!

Edited May 20, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[phade]

If 10% of the hunters kill all the deer then maybe they should give more tags to those that can kill them?  I know some that hunt our properties find it hard to take a deer and then there is a couple that take 6-8 a year hunting the same property every year!

 

Throwing more tags at hunters that cant kill will not work....And that they found out!

 

I find it amazing that this option hasn't been put forth. They talk like they dole out DMPs everywhere and that "supply exceeds demand." Bull-freaking-honky.

 

People who have the ability, wherewithall, and desire to fill DMPS are limited. You get the two to draw, you can get two second chance drawings if in the right WMU, and you can get consignments (worthless to put a limit on them). That's not including any use of reg/bow tags. Sounds like alot, right? 

 

Well, not everyone can get two consignments, so we're down to four. Having to dance around to get second chance drawings is lame - remember the system crashing on the day the second chance tags were made available? I do. Ended up not getting them for the region I wanted the most.

 

What they should do is go OTC with antlerless and manage it to the necessary unit that is being drawn on. Or, allow the two to be doled out as is done now and then OTC afterwards with a required filling or completion of each successive tag or two. This allows the tags to be used by the most effective people at controlling the does in the areas they want them and removes the LIMITATIONS on hunters in the units that they want the doe numbers down in.

 

Not very complicated at all to facilitate.

 

I also hate a doe only season in any sense of the word...especially the first 15 days of bow. How silly is that? Bow numbers, while growing in conjunction with xbow, are fractionally effective as the gun horde RIGHT NOW and they want results RIGHT NOW. Why not make Sat and Sun of opening gun doe only? See how many tomatoes and eggs end up on the windows of regional offices then...

 

And why would I even bother owning a MZ now if I can only take doe with it? I might as well sell mine. I enjoy shooting does but if the MZ season in December here in the SZ is doe only...to heck with that. I've shot quite a few does with a MZ that season, and did last year, but that's by choice. I can't say I want to own and invest in an implement where I have zero chance to shoot Mr. Buck if he walks by. Especially since all but one of the counties I hunt will be rifle (most likely) this coming season.

 

Also, there's no comment for the deer portion because we've already commented on it....when that plan was released a few years ago. They don't really need to take in comments unless I am mistaken because the allowances are already laid out and were commented on.

 

The fisher component is silly. I had a really good discussion w/the NYSTA president last month and that whole ordeal is a boondoggle. I won't get into details because it's alot to really take in, but the DEC is using bad science and decision-making on this topic.

Edited May 20, 2015 by phade

[jjb4900]

Why not make Sat and Sun of opening gun doe only? See how many tomatoes and eggs end up on the windows of regional offices then...

 

you have any idea how many yearling bucks would also be saved it that was implemented?.....if you ask me, that's a great idea.

[phade]

you have any idea how many yearling bucks would also be saved it that was implemented?.....if you ask me, that's a great idea.

 

Probably zero net gain because buttons would be killed en masse.

[jjb4900]

Probably zero net gain because buttons would be killed en masse.

true, I didn't put to much thought into my comment before posting.

[phade]

I must have missed this....looks like they will take comments:

 

For more information or for instructions for submitting comments, go to the DEC website: http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/propregulations.html. Comments on the proposed antlerless harvest and DMAP regulations must be received by Monday, June 29.

[phade]

The DEC apparently doesn't have this comment link up - but send an email to:

 

[email protected]

 

Title: Proposed Antlerless Harvest and DMAP regulations

 

Michael Schiavone is the point of contact.

 

Any chance we can get a sticky on this?

[NYBuckHunter27]

So basically we are essentially back to the Oct 15th bow opener....

[G-Man]

Well if bowhunters in general would take doe instead of waiting for a buck, ( I admit indo it as well) they wouldn't need to do anything since does are so much easier to kill..so dec responds : enter the crossbow let's get those brown and down gu n hunters involved in archery. They'll shoot anything!

We have done this to ourselves as antlers have invaded the minds and hearts of traditional meat hunters. Yearlings can breed and trophy bucks cannot be stockpiled. But still we push for one buck rule antler restrictions, while we should be pushing for earn a buck rule, preference to hunters that fill antlerless tags, and general habitat improvements.

[growalot]

I shoot any deer that comes into range and offers a good shot...yes that is with a mature buck addendum... but any time a doe is there and weather not crazy hot I'll take her...some years it's a doe or 2 before I ever get a chance at a buck..Others it's a buck first but then I go right out for the doe...Truth be known...I have a more difficult time beating a smart doe than a buck..very seldom do I have bucks walking around looking in the air...I have trail cam pics of doe walking around day and night looking up into the trees.

[phade]

Well if bowhunters in general would take doe instead of waiting for a buck, ( I admit indo it as well) they wouldn't need to do anything since does are so much easier to kill..so dec responds : enter the crossbow let's get those brown and down gu n hunters involved in archery. They'll shoot anything!

We have done this to ourselves as antlers have invaded the minds and hearts of traditional meat hunters. Yearlings can breed and trophy bucks cannot be stockpiled. But still we push for one buck rule antler restrictions, while we should be pushing for earn a buck rule, preference to hunters that fill antlerless tags, and general habitat improvements.

 

Bowhunters can be 99% meat hunters in the current numbers...and barely make a dent in the overall reduction needed in an ideal state. If they really wanted to reduce numbers, they should be using the bangstick crowd.

[stoneam2006]

I dont think it was 5k in 2 weeks, it was 5k reported as taken with xbow through the entire season. Remember, you report what weapon you kill the animal with.

I didn't think about that...but in reality how many do you think came from after gun season opened...maybe 1k give or take....I'd still be willing to bet that with full inclusion the archery season take would grow substantially with just that little modification

[Doc]

You're so right.. it like the DEC walks this tight rope all the time with their feet tied together... they are way over thinking easily solved problems. Not really sure why the answer always involves eating away opportunities of the hunter. Even opening bow season to guns  as well would do the trick... oops.. I didn't just say that did I??? Just kidding Doc... But you got to wonder why they haven't offered up that idea yet with all the other ridiculous proposals.

I honestly believe that opening bow season to guns will happen. That issue of an early muzzle-loader season hasn't really gone away yet. I think the DEC regrets putting so much of the deer season in the hands of a bunch of buck hunters. I overheard a DEC person talking to a group of other DEC people call bowhunters a bunch of buck-hunters during a break at one of the public state-of-the-herd meetings. I am sure that the attitude at the DEC is that bow season is a waste of good deer harvesting time that could be used much more efficiently with firearms. 

[Doc]

So basically we are essentially back to the Oct 15th bow opener....

Ha-ha-ha ...... When it comes to bowhunters, the DEC giveth and the DEC taketh away.

[Doc]

How seriously can you take this nonsense when the DEC decided to discourage hunters from getting permits by charging for the applications. That is the old case of them talking out of both sides of their mouths.

[phade]

I honestly believe that opening bow season to guns will happen. That issue of an early muzzle-loader season hasn't really gone away yet. I think the DEC regrets putting so much of the deer season in the hands of a bunch of buck hunters. I overheard a DEC person talking to a group of other DEC people call bowhunters a bunch of buck-hunters during a break at one of the public state-of-the-herd meetings. I am sure that the attitude at the DEC is that bow season is a waste of good deer harvesting time that could be used much more efficiently with firearms. 

 

The southern zone regular firearms season is one of the longest in the NE. Yet, they manage to screw up doe population management. Answer that riddle for me before shoving crap down the bowhunter crowd's throat.

[DirtTime]

I don't see how any of those "Proposals" will actually help thin the doe population. Maybe opening the entire NZ to the same regs as south for bow, and allow permits for does.

Creating a daily bag limit? Poachers would kill to many deer and then we would have to have a few years of no hunting while the whole population increases.Then what? Joking- -->  This whole site would be filled with ramblings of Reynolds Wrap Warriors and Preppers. That will be fun. LOL  <---- Joking

Edited May 20, 2015 by ....rob

[phade]

Mr. Schiavone,

 

I am submitting comments toward the proposed antlerless harvest and DMAP regulations, which are open for comment through June 29, 2015.

 

I am opposed to the antlerless-only designation for the first 15 days of the early archery season within the wildlife management units (WMUs) that are included within the proposal.  I am also opposed to the antlerless-only modifications to the late archery and muzzleloader seasons within the same WMUs.

 

There are many logical and scientific reasons for this opposition; however, here are some key factors that make the proposals a poor regulation to implement:

 

1. Archery harvests represent a small fractional portion of the overall antlerless harvest across the various seasons and implements. This proposal eliminates opportunity for buck harvest, a major engagement to drive bowhunters into the field, while at the same time providing only a very minor increase in antlerless harvest. If a similar or in-kind proposal was made for the regular firearms season, this may be much more effective at attaining desired harvest levels. Additionally, with crossbow included in the back portion of the early archery season, this leaves roughly only 15 days with which vertical bowhunters have to harvest a buck without added hunting pressure.
    
2. Muzzleloader hunting is a growing segment; however, such a regulation would likely limit this growth and may result in contraction of the muzzleloading hunting population. Some of the units within this proposal have recently moved to rifle allowance, reducing the use of muzzleloaders in the regular season where it was chosen over shotgun use. Pair this with zero opportunity for a potential buck harvest within the late muzzleloader season, there will be a reduced desire to go afield during the late season, a time where inclement weather is likely. It also will reduce the justifications for owning and hunting with a muzzleloader for many sportsmen and women with the implement only being used for late season hunting on does, a very narrow window of opportunity. The added emphasis on antlerless during this time may also increase the likelihood of bucks that have shed their antlers being killed.

 

I believe the units that need antlerless herd reduction should move to an over-the-counter method of issuing tags after the initial DMP draw. This allows tags to be obtained by hunters who are able and willing to fill them rather than simply providing them en masse to the hunting population within those units. After the two DMPs are filled, hunters should be able to go to an issuing agent and obtain one or two supplemental DMPs, with the process repeating until the DEC deems that no added tags should be issued. Rather than having second-chance drawings and consignments, this method will remove barriers to those who have access, the desire, and the ability to harvest additional does. Removing the limitations on capping doe harvest  at the individual hunter level seems to be a plausible and reasonable management effort before making such drastic regulatory changes to the aforementioned seasons.

 

Again, this change to over-the-counter is merely systematic; it does NOT reduce opportunity for sportsmen to take a buck for portions of the various seasons, and instead offers added benefits to hunter engagement and increases days afield for those who can fill the tags.

 

In conclusion, I strongly oppose the antlerless-only designation for the first 15 days of the early archery season within the wildlife management units (WMUs) that are included within the proposal.  I am also opposed to the antlerless-only modifications to the late archery and muzzleloader seasons within the same WMUs.

 

Thanks,

Edited May 20, 2015 by phade

[JFB]

Mr. Schiavone,

 

I am submitting comments toward the proposed antlerless harvest and DMAP regulations, which are open for comment through June 29, 2015.

 

I am opposed to the antlerless-only designation for the first 15 days of the early archery season within the wildlife management units (WMUs) that are included within the proposal.  I am also opposed to the antlerless-only modifications to the late archery and muzzleloader seasons within the same WMUs.

 

There are many logical and scientific reasons for this opposition; however, here are some key factors that make the proposals a poor regulation to implement:

 

1. Archery harvests represent a small fractional portion of the overall antlerless harvest across the various seasons and implements. This proposal eliminates opportunity for buck harvest, a major engagement to drive bowhunters into the field, while at the same time providing only a very minor increase in antlerless harvest. If a similar or in-kind proposal was made for the regular firearms season, this may be much more effective at attaining desired harvest levels. Additionally, with crossbow included in the back portion of the early archery season, this leaves roughly only 15 days with which vertical bowhunters have to harvest a buck without added hunting pressure.

    

2. Muzzleloader hunting is a growing segment; however, such a regulation would likely limit this growth and may result in contraction of the muzzleloading hunting population. Some of the units within this proposal have recently moved to rifle allowance, reducing the use of muzzleloaders in the regular season where it was chosen over shotgun use. Pair this with zero opportunity for a potential buck harvest within the late muzzleloader season, there will be a reduced desire to go afield during the late season, a time where inclement weather is likely. It also will reduce the justifications for owning and hunting with a muzzleloader for many sportsmen and women with the implement only being used for late season hunting on does, a very narrow window of opportunity. The added emphasis on antlerless during this time may also increase the likelihood of bucks that have shed their antlers being killed.

 

I believe the units that need antlerless herd reduction should move to an over-the-counter method of issuing tags after the initial DMP draw. This allows tags to be obtained by hunters who are able and willing to fill them rather than simply providing them en masse to the hunting population within those units. After the two DMPs are filled, hunters should be able to go to an issuing agent and obtain one or two supplemental DMPs, with the process repeating until the DEC deems that no added tags should be issued. Rather than having second-chance drawings and consignments, this method will remove barriers to those who have access, the desire, and the ability to harvest additional does. Removing the limitations on capping doe harvest  at the individual hunter level seems to be a plausible and reasonable management effort before making such drastic regulatory changes to the aforementioned seasons.

 

Again, this change to over-the-counter is merely systematic; it does NOT reduce opportunity for sportsmen to take a buck for portions of the various seasons, and instead offers added benefits to hunter engagement and increases days afield for those who can fill the tags.

 

In conclusion, I strongly oppose the antlerless-only designation for the first 15 days of the early archery season within the wildlife management units (WMUs) that are included within the proposal.  I am also opposed to the antlerless-only modifications to the late archery and muzzleloader seasons within the same WMUs.

 

Thanks,

 

Agreed ! 

[grampy]

Mr. Schiavone,

 

I am submitting comments toward the proposed antlerless harvest and DMAP regulations, which are open for comment through June 29, 2015.

 

I am opposed to the antlerless-only designation for the first 15 days of the early archery season within the wildlife management units (WMUs) that are included within the proposal.  I am also opposed to the antlerless-only modifications to the late archery and muzzleloader seasons within the same WMUs.

 

There are many logical and scientific reasons for this opposition; however, here are some key factors that make the proposals a poor regulation to implement:

 

1. Archery harvests represent a small fractional portion of the overall antlerless harvest across the various seasons and implements. This proposal eliminates opportunity for buck harvest, a major engagement to drive bowhunters into the field, while at the same time providing only a very minor increase in antlerless harvest. If a similar or in-kind proposal was made for the regular firearms season, this may be much more effective at attaining desired harvest levels. Additionally, with crossbow included in the back portion of the early archery season, this leaves roughly only 15 days with which vertical bowhunters have to harvest a buck without added hunting pressure.

    

2. Muzzleloader hunting is a growing segment; however, such a regulation would likely limit this growth and may result in contraction of the muzzleloading hunting population. Some of the units within this proposal have recently moved to rifle allowance, reducing the use of muzzleloaders in the regular season where it was chosen over shotgun use. Pair this with zero opportunity for a potential buck harvest within the late muzzleloader season, there will be a reduced desire to go afield during the late season, a time where inclement weather is likely. It also will reduce the justifications for owning and hunting with a muzzleloader for many sportsmen and women with the implement only being used for late season hunting on does, a very narrow window of opportunity. The added emphasis on antlerless during this time may also increase the likelihood of bucks that have shed their antlers being killed.

 

I believe the units that need antlerless herd reduction should move to an over-the-counter method of issuing tags after the initial DMP draw. This allows tags to be obtained by hunters who are able and willing to fill them rather than simply providing them en masse to the hunting population within those units. After the two DMPs are filled, hunters should be able to go to an issuing agent and obtain one or two supplemental DMPs, with the process repeating until the DEC deems that no added tags should be issued. Rather than having second-chance drawings and consignments, this method will remove barriers to those who have access, the desire, and the ability to harvest additional does. Removing the limitations on capping doe harvest  at the individual hunter level seems to be a plausible and reasonable management effort before making such drastic regulatory changes to the aforementioned seasons.

 

Again, this change to over-the-counter is merely systematic; it does NOT reduce opportunity for sportsmen to take a buck for portions of the various seasons, and instead offers added benefits to hunter engagement and increases days afield for those who can fill the tags.

 

In conclusion, I strongly oppose the antlerless-only designation for the first 15 days of the early archery season within the wildlife management units (WMUs) that are included within the proposal.  I am also opposed to the antlerless-only modifications to the late archery and muzzleloader seasons within the same WMUs.

 

Thanks,

 

Very well stated,phade! My feelings exactly and I agree 100%.

[phade]

Feel free to copy and send it in the them at the email address I documented on page 2 of this thread.