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spike,4pt,6pt, all 1.5 Yr old----genetics?

arrow nocker

By arrow nocker,
in Deer Hunting

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arrow nocker Newbie

arrow nocker

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Posted

Ok,we all kinda want qdm and we all like meat.Well while sitting on watch i was thinking.It is late season.Havn't seen anything opening wknd.What if one of the spikes i passed on this archery was to show up.Would i shoot it.Hmmm.Tuff.I need the meat.I have 6 kids,and they don't know the diff between beef and deer when in burger. ;) We already put a spike in the freezer.Would i shoot a spike again if it walked by?

I know i would shoot a 6 pointer cause that would be my best to date.Hell a 4 pt would be my best rack yet.LOL.

But here is where i am like wait.Isn't a spike possibly the same age as one of the average 6 points around here.A button buck is obviously 1/2 yr old.I saw few during archery.Small body deer.The spike I got was a big body deer.I don't have a scale but had to be close to 150-160 dressed out.Now that had to be a 1 12 yr old deer.The 6 pts i saw were close in size but maybe somewhat bigger body.And i believe to be also 1.5 yrs old.

Now this is my question.Wouldn't it be better to pass on the 6 and shoot the spike.They are most likely the same age right.(Unless one of the 6pts has poorer genetics and is a 2.5 yr old)The spike probably has poorer genitics and should be in the freezer.Right.The 6 would be a nice buck nxt yr.

Another words my question is:

Isn't the spike the same age as the 4 pt and 6 pt and if i was somewhat practicing QDM,the spike should be taken instead of the 6 point?

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SplitG2 Newbie

SplitG2

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Arrow nocker, for someone who hasn't taken a buck over 4pts I give you alot of credit on passing young bucks.  As for the age groups of the deer you mentioned I couldn't say without pictures of them?  If you practice QDM and if they are all 1 1/2 year old bucks, they all get a pass.  Without getting into QDM principles, you also need to understand buck dispersal.  Most of your 1 1/2 year old bucks will leave your hunting grounds either in spring or fall and you should get your neighbors young bucks.  This is why it's important for your surrounding lands to also have good habitat.  Forget about changing genetics in a wild deer herd...won't happen.  Remember 50% of the genetics comes from the doe.

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Bleitten04 Newbie

Bleitten04

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I'm not an expert but a deer with good genetics at 1.5 should be more then a spike so in a perfect world where you could always tell the ages you could let the 1.5's that are more then a spike walk.  I know on some game farms the 1.5's are probably trophy animals by some peoples standards already but they let them walk to get super big.  IMO if you want to practice the QDM you should shoot the spike before the 4 or 6.   

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nyantler Apprentice

nyantler

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Sorry, Bleitten but thats not true necessarily.. a late born buck fawn with great genetics can still be a spike.

Although there are other opinions on whether or not it would be better to cull spikes to further better genetics.. the truth is that nobody knows the true potential of a buck until that buck reaches his FULL potential... and rather than speculate, some whitetail breeders have actually kept logs on their spike horns and some of the racks that these bucks grew were enormous... there have also been studies of tagged spikes in the wild with the same results.

I am of the notion that for most hunters it is easier to find an excuse to shoot a young buck than it is to defend the reasoning for why he let it walk. I also believe for most hunters its more of an ego thing... they would rather cut their tongue out than have to tell their buddies they didn't get a buck this year.

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Localqdm Newbie

Localqdm

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I agree outdoorstom.  Probably every one of those bucks was 1.5 (but obviously that's just a guess), and your spikes may turn out bigger than the 6 will in a couple of years.  Lots of documented spikes turned out HUGE.  Do what you got to do. I would pass, but that's me.  If you need it, eat it. 

SplitG2, I really thought most dispersal happens BEFORE 1.5 and the buttons on your property are going somewhere else, not the 1.5's.

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sampotter Newbie

sampotter

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Bucks disperse as yearlings. It doesn't matter either way- the buck faws born on your property are not going to stay- so there is no way to manage genetics unless you have a fence. The cited article above unfortunately does not follow spike bucks through maturity- it just assumes that spikes are gentically inferior. Read Kroll's article;

www.petersenshunting.com/content/shooting-spike-bucks

www.petersenshunting.com/content/shooting-spike-bucks/2

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phade Mentor

phade

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It's really a moot point to some degree.

Split is right though that young bucks tend to leave within two periods by 1.5...the first large dispersal is right around 6 mos. and the second is right near as Split said. Some bucks leave early on, while others wait til the back end of this time frame.

It's also a large issue why small tract QDM projects suffer when surrounding properties don't practice. In these instances, people do better by trying to entice deer during the hunting season times rather than trying to increase age structure (as the primary focus). Truth be told, that's why a ton of small-time landowners reach frustration after passing young buck after buck. Passing them goes hand in hand, but they should really focus on that Sept-Jan time to hold deer.

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Larry Community Regular

Larry

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Arrow knocker 2 things first it’s your choice on what to shoot, unless you are hunting in one of the AR WMU’s then you have to shoot the 6pt. Second never pass on a deer you would shoot on the last day of the season on the first day. Do not over analyze it’s suppose to be fun

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nyantler Apprentice

nyantler

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I say you can pass on the young buck early to give yourself a chance to see a bigger buck... even if you would shoot him on the last day. Maybe for some guys the fun is in letting them walk in search of something better. I had a guy ask me once at a seminar I did... "How do I kill a big buck?? The first buck I usually see is small and after I kill him I don't have a buck tag" I almost busted out laughing. I asked him if he REALLY wanted to kill a big buck. He said..."More than anything!" Again, I almost busted out a laugh. I said.. "Try not shooting the first buck.. unless it's a big buck!" Then he laughed. Ya just can't fix stupid..

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arrow nocker Newbie

arrow nocker

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Arrow knocker 2 things first it’s your choice on what to shoot, unless you are hunting in one of the AR WMU’s then you have to shoot the 6pt. Second never pass on a deer you would shoot on the last day of the season on the first day. Do not over analyze it’s suppose to be fun

funny you say that.I passed on known 2 spikes during archery.I shot the spike the opening weekend of gun.I shot it cause i never see any deer during gun and i wanted the meat.I have passed on a lott of spikes and 4 pts during archery in the past couple of years.I never saw them again at the end of bow or in gun season.So i didn't feel guilty for harvesting that spike.Tastes pretty good.

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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Posted

Arrow knocker 2 things first it’s your choice on what to shoot, unless you are hunting in one of the AR WMU’s then you have to shoot the 6pt. Second never pass on a deer you would shoot on the last day of the season on the first day. Do not over analyze it’s suppose to be fun

Excellent advice!

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  • 2 weeks later...
gjs4 Newbie

gjs4

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you know what they have in common? Most bowhunters would pass on all of them and most gun hunters would hammer them.

There are a ton of nutrition and developement factors with antlers..bottom line is 3.5s and up are mature in age and have racks most aspire to harvest....

selfrestraint boys- it does wonders

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First-light Grand Master

First-light

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I say you can pass on the young buck early to give yourself a chance to see a bigger buck... even if you would shoot him on the last day. Maybe for some guys the fun is in letting them walk in search of something better. I had a guy ask me once at a seminar I did... "How do I kill a big buck?? The first buck I usually see is small and after I kill him I don't have a buck tag" I almost busted out laughing. I asked him if he REALLY wanted to kill a big buck. He said..."More than anything!" Again, I almost busted out a laugh. I said.. "Try not shooting the first buck.. unless it's a big buck!" Then he laughed. Ya just can't fix stupid..

Joe,

I thought about what you just said. The biggest bucks I have ever shot were in a season that they just happen to be the 1st or second buck that had seen. I have a P/Y buck that was taken the second weekend of bow, the first buck I saw that year. I do have to say though that after harvesting a big buck I have never come face to face with something bigger. I should be happy for that.

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SteveB Enthusiast

SteveB

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Posted

Great stat- that i did not know.

Can you tell me how the DEC knows the age of the deer harvested? :D They dont. It is based on a limited census via checkstations and surveys..... theyre lost with data.

If we don't believe this, how can we believe anyone knows 80% (or whatever) of the 1.5's are killed?

Selective data acceptance? ;)

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