Anyone see the NYODN yet?

[growalot]

Looks like Zone 3 where they already have AR in place is the largest zone with 2 coming in second.

I find the coloration interesting almost like green is the go area and red is the hot zone ...funny what comes to mind.

[phade]

For the "overpopulation" areas, they're going to hammer the ability to shoot bucks to force doe harvest. There's so many options on the table...OBR, EAB, 4 pt a side AR, the gun season in bow, antlerless only bow season, etc.

 

I still think the primary weapon of choice is going to be the gun hunt in bow season. What will be interesting is if they try to force BOTH the first two weeks of bow as antlerless only AND put in a gun season in bow.

 

Face it, 2015 is going to be the last decent hunting season for a while as these changes come into play and create the new norm. 

[dbHunterNY]

For the "overpopulation" areas, they're going to hammer the ability to shoot bucks to force doe harvest. There's so many options on the table...OBR, EAB, 4 pt a side AR, the gun season in bow, antlerless only bow season, etc.

 

I still think the primary weapon of choice is going to be the gun hunt in bow season. What will be interesting is if they try to force BOTH the first two weeks of bow as antlerless only AND put in a gun season in bow.

 

Face it, 2015 is going to be the last decent hunting season for a while as these changes come into play and create the new norm. 

 

definitely be a kick in the pants if they do both options you mentioned during bow season.  not sure if even DEC is that brazen.  I do think that whatever they implement will be something easily monitored as an general condition within an area versus monitoring a hunters take throughout the season such as OBR or EAB.  they aren't really setup for those too either.

 

something I noticed is 4J being bow only would still get lumped in with areas already having ARs in place.  if they stay simple like 3 on a side it won't change too much, but any bigger and doe will be hunted something fierce.  hard enough for some to get a doe unless they venture farther away from Albany in which legislation was passed to allow for rifle use opposed to shotgun.

 

[Buckstopshere]

For the "overpopulation" areas, they're going to hammer the ability to shoot bucks to force doe harvest. There's so many options on the table...OBR, EAB, 4 pt a side AR, the gun season in bow, antlerless only bow season, etc.

 

I still think the primary weapon of choice is going to be the gun hunt in bow season. What will be interesting is if they try to force BOTH the first two weeks of bow as antlerless only AND put in a gun season in bow.

 

Face it, 2015 is going to be the last decent hunting season for a while as these changes come into play and create the new norm. 

 

Putting gun season in bow season is crazy from a safety standpoint. Deer hunters with guns and bow hunters in camo? The DEC would have to change the bow season regs to mandate blaze orange on bow hunters...something NY does not do...even for gun season. To me, the mix of guns and bow hunting is too dangerous to comprehend...knowing the greenhorns (deer hunters with only a few seasons and kills under their belts)  out there with guns and we who choose to bow hunt in full camo in the same stretch of woods. 

 

But I agree, enjoy this deer season (2015.) It might be the last good one.

[phade]

Putting gun season in bow season is crazy from a safety standpoint. Deer hunters with guns and bow hunters in camo? The DEC would have to change the bow season regs to mandate blaze orange on bow hunters...something NY does not do...even for gun season. To me, the mix of guns and bow hunting is too dangerous to comprehend...knowing the greenhorns (deer hunters with only a few seasons and kills under their belts) out there with guns and we who choose to bow hunt in full camo in the same stretch of woods.

But I agree, enjoy this deer season (2015.) It might be the last good one.

Theyve threatened it enough.

People also bow hunt in gun season now anyways so orange is moot.

Edited July 27, 2015 by phade

[BizCT]

Draws is the answer. Many states you can't hunt a buck every single yet, let alone 2 bucks every single year. I'd be fine with hunting every 3-4 years if it meant better hunting

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[phade]

Draws is the answer. Many states you can't hunt a buck every single yet, let alone 2 bucks every single year. I'd be fine with hunting every 3-4 years if it meant better hunting

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What place east of the MS or reasonable midwest states (meaning sustainable) offer draws for whitetails at state level or per WMU? I do believe that total is zero, and probably for good reason. Edited July 27, 2015 by phade

[jjb4900]

Draws is the answer. Many states you can't hunt a buck every single yet, let alone 2 bucks every single year. I'd be fine with hunting every 3-4 years if it meant better hunting

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kind of along the same idea, but I say you get a dmp tag with ur license and the buck tag is lottery..........same thing we have now except reversed.

[First-light]

Theyve threatened it enough.

People also bow hunt in gun season now anyways so orange is moot.

I would never go out and bow hunt in camo  knowing there are gun hunters in the same woods. That is pretty foolish to me but have at it if you like. 

[phade]

I would never go out and bow hunt in camo knowing there are gun hunters in the same woods. That is pretty foolish to me but have at it if you like.

Thats great and all but thats not the point and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. The point is a gun season in bow doesnt require an orange mandate or reg rewrite based on the fact bowhunting is legal without orange during the gun season right now. There is no barrier to implementing gun season in bow and there wont be, so enjoy 2015 if you hunt in units syracuse and west.

[BizCT]

What place east of the MS or reasonable midwest states (meaning sustainable) offer draws for whitetails at state level or per WMU? I do believe that total is zero, and probably for good reason.

I'm sure not all parts of NY need a 3-4 year wait per hunter on bucks but down here (3N) it's very tough to find a mature buck. If I had to guess, I would bet less than 10 mature bucks were ever posted on this site out of 3N, maybe less than 5.

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[Doc]

less areas means fewer decisions, less work, and less budget costs I'd imagine.

And less effectiveness and accuracy. Why bother with the activity at all if you're not concerned with it accomplishing exactly what you're trying to accomplish. The old adage still applies, "a job worth doing is worth doing right".

[Doc]

Theyve threatened it enough.

People also bow hunt in gun season now anyways so orange is moot.

I truly believe that there is an attitude of anti bowhunting that is prevalent in the DEC. I'm sure that they feel that a very good productive hunting period and opportunity to whack deer populations is being squandered on this specialized and very ineffective (comparatively speaking) weapon. I fully expect to see more and more incursions of guns into bow season for as long as this paranoia about deer populations and the political pressure to soothe anti-deer interests continues. We all think that the archery lobby is a powerful force and that it takes great brass balls for the DEC to take on bowhunters. But the truth is that the organized bowhunters are effectively broken and don't really offer serious resistance anymore. There is some real crazy stuff going on in these plans that are clearly showing the attitude of the DEC toward bowhunting. Some of it is starting to get real obvious.

 

There no longer are any safety concerns about mixing guns with bows in the DEC. They are feeling confident with previous experiences that have been forced into the season without incident. I don't think that safety is much of a concern with them anymore. Frankly what they are doing to bow seasons has got me thinking that maybe it is time to call it quits on an activity that has been a significantly major part of my life for many decades. Maybe it is time.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I would never go out and bow hunt in camo  knowing there are gun hunters in the same woods. That is pretty foolish to me but have at it if you like. 

 

There are already plenty of guns in the woods during bow season.

[WNYBuckHunter]

And less effectiveness and accuracy. Why bother with the activity at all if you're not concerned with it accomplishing exactly what you're trying to accomplish. The old adage still applies, "a job worth doing is worth doing right".

 

So how high do you want your taxes to be? The simple fact is, proper management would cost big bucks for the DEC to do on their own. The department is simply not configured to be able to do it. What would need to be done is the wildlife management portions of the department should be seperate from the rest that deal with pollution, etc. and become its own entity with its own funding. Politics should be kept out of it for the most part, and the department should have control over the game laws and regulations without having to make every change go through the state legislature. Then, this state might set itself up to be able to manage things better than they do now. They would still need the cooperation of co-ops, hunting clubs, landowners and hunters to get things done though. All of that would be at a cost though, more tax dollars, because we all know Albany isnt going to curtail their spending on handouts and political perk programs to fund a new department for wildlife.

[sssurfertim]

I am a fan of AR's but not the 1 buck proposal unless it was maybe 1 buck per zone? I hunt the rugged Deleware county area 4W and suburban/rural Suffolk county, they are vastly different and I would not want to have to choose where I am going to kill my 1 buck and be done, because I would have no reason to go rifle hunting in 4W unless I had a doe tag that I MIGHT get every other year. In 4W a basket 6 is a good buck, where in suffolk we wouldn't even think of shooting a small 6. Deer management is very different in both areas so much that Suffolk is a pretty much "If it's brown it's down" with UNLIMITED Doe, and 4W is pretty restrictive in doe permits.

[phade]

So how high do you want your taxes to be? The simple fact is, proper management would cost big bucks for the DEC to do on their own. The department is simply not configured to be able to do it. What would need to be done is the wildlife management portions of the department should be seperate from the rest that deal with pollution, etc. and become its own entity with its own funding. Politics should be kept out of it for the most part, and the department should have control over the game laws and regulations without having to make every change go through the state legislature. Then, this state might set itself up to be able to manage things better than they do now. They would still need the cooperation of co-ops, hunting clubs, landowners and hunters to get things done though. All of that would be at a cost though, more tax dollars, because we all know Albany isnt going to curtail their spending on handouts and political perk programs to fund a new department for wildlife.

 

Yes, many state agencies have fish and game or fish and wildlife separations. Some states even have inland fish and game and marine separations.

[Buckstopshere]

I truly believe that there is an attitude of anti bowhunting that is prevalent in the DEC. I'm sure that they feel that a very good productive hunting period and opportunity to whack deer populations is being squandered on this specialized and very ineffective (comparatively speaking) weapon. I fully expect to see more and more incursions of guns into bow season for as long as this paranoia about deer populations and the political pressure to soothe anti-deer interests continues. We all think that the archery lobby is a powerful force and that it takes great brass balls for the DEC to take on bowhunters. But the truth is that the organized bowhunters are effectively broken and don't really offer serious resistance anymore. There is some real crazy stuff going on in these plans that are clearly showing the attitude of the DEC toward bowhunting. Some of it is starting to get real obvious.

 

There no longer are any safety concerns about mixing guns with bows in the DEC. They are feeling confident with previous experiences that have been forced into the season without incident. I don't think that safety is much of a concern with them anymore. Frankly what they are doing to bow seasons has got me thinking that maybe it is time to call it quits on an activity that has been a significantly major part of my life for many decades. Maybe it is time.

 

Don't hang it up yet Doc. This upcoming season is going to be great and who knows what will stick. The DEC appears to be throwing lots of ideas up on the wall to see what sticks and what falls off.

The DEC is concerned that the deer population in certain areas is going to get out of control because frankly, as hunters we are not doing our job. We are not killing enough. We are becoming too choosey. These new AR proposals are simply a way to accomplish the goal of reducing the deer herd in a benign way. The DEC does not care if Joe Hunter shoots a four point or an eight point. Of course if deer hunters had access to all hunting properties, the current spotty overpopulation problem would be a non issue. The DEC is in a tough spot, caught between hunters on one side, politicians on the other (all DEC law changes need to be voted upon by both houses like it or not) and business interests...timber and farming. And now these proposals need to be vetted by Gov. Cuomo's think tank. Stay on board. It is going to get interesting. 

 

[dbHunterNY]

So how high do you want your taxes to be? The simple fact is, proper management would cost big bucks for the DEC to do on their own. The department is simply not configured to be able to do it. What would need to be done is the wildlife management portions of the department should be seperate from the rest that deal with pollution, etc. and become its own entity with its own funding. Politics should be kept out of it for the most part, and the department should have control over the game laws and regulations without having to make every change go through the state legislature. Then, this state might set itself up to be able to manage things better than they do now. They would still need the cooperation of co-ops, hunting clubs, landowners and hunters to get things done though. All of that would be at a cost though, more tax dollars, because we all know Albany isnt going to curtail their spending on handouts and political perk programs to fund a new department for wildlife.

 

doing it right is subjective but if I could like this post more than once I would.

[steve863]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30409.html

 

 

They just posted the numbers and probabilities on doe tags for 2015.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30409.html

 

 

They just posted the numbers and probabilities on doe tags for 2015.

I'm liking the looks of those numbers.  You can see where the deer problems are. Just about all the 8's are handing them out...

[growalot]

Once again Camp is high/low then high / none for out of state Home is high across the board...8M where I'll probably will going in early archery from now on is high / Medium and  high/none out of state

[dbHunterNY]

don't get outdoor news but i'll attach the map from the DEC draft report.  i imagine catskills would be broken out into the 7th and final zone.

 

ZoneMap.JPG

 

here's a better map to compare and figure out which WMU are which....

 

2008-ny-regbow-season-dates.gif

 

....meant to say 8th zone but yea.... they said 7 at most.  us in 4C is way different than the catskills which are more like the northern zone.

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/wmutownmap09.pdf

 

the WMU map was actually old when I got looking more closely use the link above that's updated.

 

[mmkay]

I'm sure not all parts of NY need a 3-4 year wait per hunter on bucks but down here (3N) it's very tough to find a mature buck. If I had to guess, I would bet less than 10 mature bucks were ever posted on this site out of 3N, maybe less than 5.

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it VERY easy to get a large buck in 3N.  I've gotten many 8pts on state/city land in 3N.  you just need to know what your doing and put the days in.  If you can't get a buck in 3n in a week somethings wrong.  

 

I hit at least 10 private properties and 10 to 15 pieces of state land each year.  some times I'll spend just a few hours and leave if no sign, sometimes a few days hunting the same place.  you need to have options.  you can't expect to get a deer if you don't find the land the deer are on.  IT ACCESS...nothing else.  get ACCESS to good land and you got your deer

 

AR = lazy hunters

[mmkay]

I'm sure not all parts of NY need a 3-4 year wait per hunter on bucks but down here (3N) it's very tough to find a mature buck. If I had to guess, I would bet less than 10 mature bucks were ever posted on this site out of 3N, maybe less than 5.

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I've posted three 8 pts taken in 3N to this site

Edited July 28, 2015 by mmkay