PA may put $25 Bounty on Coyotes

[chrisw]

For all you coyote protectionists, I bought my NY land 20 years ago. Lots of deer and turkey then and NO coyote.

After 5 years, saw my first coyote. Since then have seen fewer and fewer deer and turkey and lots more coyote.

Here, they run in packs of 5 or 6 and they DO take down adult deer. These are hybrid coyote/wolf that often exceed 40 pounds and they all have wolf DNA that traces back to Minnesota. I DO hunt them and it requires night hunting. Once the deer hunting starts, the yotes become completely nocturnal, spending their days here hidden in holes in the ground. I've personally seen them disappear under a blowdown and not come up the entire day I sat in my stand waiting for them. Most hunters are not willing to hunt at night in the bitter cold.

I really don't give two sheets what any of your so called "scientific", so called "evidence", says. I'll base my beliefs on what I actually see. Too often the data you guys supply comes from sources that are more animal friendly and anti hunting than pro hunting or wildlife management.

These days I kill far more coyote than deer or turkey. In my area, coyote didn't exist at all 30 years ago. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner it reverts back to the way it was, the better.

They are invasive predators. Show me scientific evidence that proves they aren't. I have no evidence to prove my theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, the lack of deer and turkey becomes the reason for the anti hunting crowd demanding your deer and turkey hunting be banned. Anti's have been trying to promote natural predation in lieu of hunting for decades.

Most people think there is a deer shortage yet they spend every minute they get trying to kill one during deer season, yet there is a coyote overload apparently and very few hunt them... So all of the studies done are wrong and your "studies" of which you have no facts or proof are in some way correct? Makes sense...

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[Mr VJP]

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I don't care what your "studies" say when what I SEE indicates they're BS.

 

And Law, I could post links for you about anti's but don't feel like wasting time to prove what you won't believe anyway.

 

[growalot]

CruisE...not being nasty here..just curious...do you live in the country on any amount of land?

[shawnhu]

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I don't care what your "studies" say when what I SEE indicates they're BS.

And Law, I could post links for you about anti's but don't feel like wasting time to prove what you won't believe anyway.

But you waste time posting links of conspiracies and other political BS?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[ATbuckhunter]

For all you coyote protectionists, I bought my NY land 20 years ago. Lots of deer and turkey then and NO coyote.

After 5 years, saw my first coyote. Since then have seen fewer and fewer deer and turkey and lots more coyote.

Here, they run in packs of 5 or 6 and they DO take down adult deer. These are hybrid coyote/wolf that often exceed 40 pounds and they all have wolf DNA that traces back to Minnesota. I DO hunt them and it requires night hunting. Once the deer hunting starts, the yotes become completely nocturnal, spending their days here hidden in holes in the ground. I've personally seen them disappear under a blowdown and not come up the entire day I sat in my stand waiting for them. Most hunters are not willing to hunt at night in the bitter cold.

I really don't give two sheets what any of your so called "scientific", so called "evidence", says. I'll base my beliefs on what I actually see. Too often the data you guys supply comes from sources that are more animal friendly and anti hunting than pro hunting or wildlife management.

These days I kill far more coyote than deer or turkey. In my area, coyote didn't exist at all 30 years ago. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner it reverts back to the way it was, the better.

They are invasive predators. Show me scientific evidence that proves they aren't. I have no evidence to prove my theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, the lack of deer and turkey becomes the reason for the anti hunting crowd demanding your deer and turkey hunting be banned. Anti's have been trying to promote natural predation in lieu of hunting for decades.

I don't believe that anyone here is being a coyote protectionist in fact I'm sure we all would shoot a coyote if we had the chance. I also believe that we would be better with no coyotes but I just don't see how that's going to be possible...and a bounty is going to do nothing but waste money. These coyotes are a whole new breed of predator. They adapt in ways that make it almost impossible for us to get rid of them. I would agree with you when you say that some information comes from anti hunters but when people who hold doctorates in wildlife biology and have been avid hunters for their whole lives, tell me that bounties will do nothing....I take their word for it. It's not all anti hunters participating in these studies. In order to really knock back the population, we need to severely knock down their population every year over a very, very large area.

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

If one calls war on their local yote population 365 24-7 you will make them disappear and your deer and turkeys will come back. This repopulation crap does not hold true if you keep killing them. We shoot,Trap,Poison and they go bye,bye.

 

This war was 3-4 years back and i will say that until this year we did not see or hear many at all. This fall a few were taken during deer season and we did see more than we like to see.  The dogs will run when we get some snow and by summer the problem will be over again for a few more years,

[PREDATE]

If one calls war on their local yote population 365 24-7 you will make them disappear and your deer and turkeys will come back. This repopulation crap does not hold true if you keep killing them. We shoot,Trap,Poison and they go bye,bye.

This war was 3-4 years back and i will say that until this year we did not see or hear many at all. This fall a few were taken during deer season and we did see more than we like to see. The dogs will run when we get some snow and by summer the problem will be over again for a few more years,

Just curious how many yotes you take annually and by which method. Also, how much land are we talking about? I fear you may be pushing a lot of them to neighboring properties just like the deer that get pushed off state lands, they just go as far as they need to find safety.

IMO hunting coyotes with dogs is not hunting. Tracking dogs with GPS collars and laptops is one thing, but putting fresh dogs on the trail halfway through the chase is not very "fair chase". Of course the coyote won't be able to outrun 2 or 3 sets of fresh dogs.

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Edited December 16, 2015 by PREDATE

[Lawdwaz]

If one calls war on their local yote population 365 24-7 you will make them disappear and your deer and turkeys will come back. This repopulation crap does not hold true if you keep killing them. We shoot,Trap,Poison and they go bye,bye.

This war was 3-4 years back and i will say that until this year we did not see or hear many at all. This fall a few were taken during deer season and we did see more than we like to see. The dogs will run when we get some snow and by summer the problem will be over again for a few more years,

Poison?

[Curmudgeon]

For all you coyote protectionists, I bought my NY land 20 years ago.  Lots of deer and turkey then and NO coyote.

 

After 5 years, saw my first coyote. 

 

I have to wonder about your powers of observation if you really believe there were no coyotes in Delaware County 20 years ago. I know there were. I've been involved in wildlife issues in Delaware and Otsego Counties since I moved from Cortland County is 1982.

 

[Curmudgeon]

It really good to see so many people on this site making sense. In the past, ignorance and coyote hatred seemed to be the rule.

 

[chrisw]

If one calls war on their local yote population 365 24-7 you will make them disappear and your deer and turkeys will come back. This repopulation crap does not hold true if you keep killing them. We shoot,Trap,Poison and they go bye,bye.

This war was 3-4 years back and i will say that until this year we did not see or hear many at all. This fall a few were taken during deer season and we did see more than we like to see. The dogs will run when we get some snow and by summer the problem will be over again for a few more years,

Perhaps the DEC would like to know your tactics for controlling the coyote population. With your wealth of coyote extermination powers and total disregard for laws I'm surprised there's a coyote left in the state. I wonder how many other animals you killed with your poison... Hawks, maybe an eagle, fox, skunks, coons etc... Keep going I'm interested in your other illegal activities also.

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[Mr VJP]

I have to wonder about your powers of observation if you really believe there were no coyotes in Delaware County 20 years ago. I know there were. I've been involved in wildlife issues in Delaware and Otsego Counties since I moved from Cortland County is 1982.

 

 

You prove my point.  Maybe there were some then, but they were so few nobody noticed.  There were none by me or anywhere around me.  Now there are lots of them and you guys keep saying they are not a problem and we needn't think they are doing any damage to deer and turkey populations.

 

You sir, seem to lack any ability to use logic.

 

Do none of you guys have any ability to see what this area was like 40 or 50 years ago?  Most of you are too young to remember those days, when deer were plentiful and turkey were on the rise.  The problem of coyote over population didn't exist then, and it shouldn't exist now.  As long as we keep making excuses and preaching this "tolerance" for lots of coyotes, things are only going to keep moving in the wrong direction.

 

There's no convincing any who think we don't have a problem.  You can justify your positions with all the trendy studies you can find that support your thinking, but decades from now, when you see how wrong you were, you'll realize what fools you were.

 

There are many folks out west where wolves were reintroduced that now realize what fools they were to allow it.  There are many in California who now realize allowing cougar populations to expand wasn't a good idea either.  All the studies done then said it was a good idea.  Ever stop to think studies get done when payments are made to do them?  Who's paying for them?  Do they have a motive   Do they print studies that disagree?  People out west don't trust studies anymore.  I never did.

[Curmudgeon]

Personally, I think the season needs to be shortened so it ends at the end of February. I've told DEC this. Running gravid or lactating females with hounds in March is less than sporting. I did not realize that some houndsmen change dogs mid-chase. That is even worse.

 

Here is some good information from ESF. I'm sure VJP will want to ignore it - http://www.esf.edu/pubprog/brochure/coyote/coyote.htm

 

Chris - I think 4 seasons has a nuisance permit for coyotes because he has a deer farm. He lives across the road from Fort Drum so has an unlimited supply to fill in the vacuum he creates.

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

Do none of you guys have any ability to see what this area was like 40 or 50 years ago?  Most of you are too young to remember those days, when deer were plentiful and turkey were on the rise.  The problem of coyote over population didn't exist then, and it shouldn't exist now.  As long as we keep making excuses and preaching this "tolerance" for lots of coyotes, things are only going to keep moving in the wrong direction.

 

And, you think coyotes are the only thing that changed during that period? Your powers of observation are impaired. 40 years ago the same thing could be said about areas I hunted in wilderness areas of the Dacks.

 

The turkey increase and decline was entirely predictable - with or without coyotes. The changes in habitat across the state are clear. You can see those changes expressed in population changes in multiple species. Find a brown thrasher in Delaware County, or a golden-winged warbler. It must be the coyotes killed them all. Heck, where did all those fishers come from?

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Curmudgeon

[chrisw]

You prove my point. Maybe there were some then, but they were so few nobody noticed. There were none by me or anywhere around me. Now there are lots of them and you guys keep saying they are not a problem and we needn't think they are doing any damage to deer and turkey populations.

You sir, seem to lack any ability to use logic.

Do none of you guys have any ability to see what this area was like 40 or 50 years ago? Most of you are too young to remember those days, when deer were plentiful and turkey were on the rise. The problem of coyote over population didn't exist then, and it shouldn't exist now. As long as we keep making excuses and preaching this "tolerance" for lots of coyotes, things are only going to keep moving in the wrong direction.

There's no convincing any who think we don't have a problem. You can justify your positions with all the trendy studies you can find that support your thinking, but decades from now, when you see how wrong you were, you'll realize what fools you were.

There are many folks out west where wolves were reintroduced that now realize what fools they were to allow it. There are many in California who now realize allowing cougar populations to expand wasn't a good idea either. All the studies done then said it was a good idea. Ever stop to think studies get done when payments are made to do them? Who's paying for them? Do they have a motive Do they print studies that disagree? People out west don't trust studies anymore. I never did.

Nobody is saying we want LOTS of coyotes, just don't think having coyotes around is such a detrimental natural disaster which you proclaim. Maybe we should start killing off owls, hawks and all other birds of prey because grouse numbers have shrunk in recent decades, where does it end? There are so many changes to technology (hunting) and landscape and urban sprawl and the list goes on that you can't single handedly point a finger and say "Coyotes are the root of all wildlife issues in NY." Hunters take on average what? Like 600,000 deer every fall? Not to mention cars, disease, winters, poaching. Humans kill the vast majority of deer in this state, I think we can spare a few here and there for the animals that depend on them for survival. There's no benefit to human greed in nature.

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[diplomat019]

off topic

 

vjp-  u familiar with cherry ridge forest?  thinking of a small game trip there

[The_Field_Ager]

My Neighbor and I are looking to lay waste to the local yote community. Probably start tomorrow evening. Pics to follow. 

[nyantler]

Coyotes have been in NY since around 1920... it's a wonder we have any deer at all in NY based on what most hunters believe about coyotes vs. deer... the danger that coyotes pose on the NY deer population is a huge perpetuated myth started by ignorant hunters to justify their inability to see and to kill deer. The fact that the whitetail is on the menu of 20-30,000 coyotes in NY has no more impact than the 400,000 hunters that also have deer their menu. Just like with hunters, there are isolated areas where the impact is greater, and others areas where there is little impact if any. Neither is a true threat to the overall herd. But, of the two, the hunter is really the greater threat to the deer herd.

[wallpack]

Ny has a contest. Been wanting to join but never did. I think its held by sullivan county sportsman association. Dont quote me on that but ive seen the registration forms. And the layouts seem good.

Yes there do. I did it a couple years ago

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[Curmudgeon]

My Neighbor and I are looking to lay waste to the local yote community. Probably start tomorrow evening. Pics to follow. 

 

Papist - Do you know the best and highest use of domestic cats? Coyote food!

 

[Curmudgeon]

Coyotes have been in NY since around 1920... it's a wonder we have any deer at all in NY based on what most hunters believe about coyotes vs. deer... the danger that coyotes pose on the NY deer population is a huge perpetuated myth started by ignorant hunters to justify their inability to see and to kill deer. The fact that the whitetail is on the menu of 20-30,000 coyotes in NY has no more impact than the 400,000 hunters that also have deer their menu. Just like with hunters, there are isolated areas where the impact is greater, and others areas where there is little impact if any. Neither is a true threat to the overall herd. But, of the two, the hunter is really the greater threat to the deer herd.

 

Well said but still won't convince the coyote-haters.

[The_Field_Ager]

Papist - Do you know the best and highest use of domestic cats? Coyote food!

 

 

All the more reason to eradicate my local population. Thanks for the reminder and the motivation.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Coyotes have been in NY since around 1920... it's a wonder we have any deer at all in NY based on what most hunters believe about coyotes vs. deer... the danger that coyotes pose on the NY deer population is a huge perpetuated myth started by ignorant hunters to justify their inability to see and to kill deer. The fact that the whitetail is on the menu of 20-30,000 coyotes in NY has no more impact than the 400,000 hunters that also have deer their menu. Just like with hunters, there are isolated areas where the impact is greater, and others areas where there is little impact if any. Neither is a true threat to the overall herd. But, of the two, the hunter is really the greater threat to the deer herd.

Agreed BUT they do not have to kill to ruin a piece of property. In our case we had neighbors that lost 9 fallow deer in 1 night. Not eaten.Just killed. That i lay part of the blame on poor fence upkeep but the case was still over population. When you have them growling at you while gutting a deer or have 2 pin your Lab up against your back sliding door in your yard, you have a problem.

Even the little they may kill, in many numbers they will ruin a piece of property just being on the landscape. Whitetails and turkeys will vacate the area and the small game population will be decimated. Been there, Done That! Didnt buy property for their enjoyment.

Now add in livestock and the plot thickens.

 

I like the part about the studies they they will just keep coming back. Like i said, after 4-5 years i am just starting to see and hear them again. Game On!

[Andy 3F]

I've got a few yote calls too. I've been doing internet home work trying to figure out the best place to go get them in southern NY. I'm in duchess if some one has a farm and is willing I want to go get them.

[Doc]

Pa can do whatever it wants, but paying bounties has been illegal since 1971 in NYS

 

Figure11-0531 of NYS Environmental Conservation Law:

 

Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter or any other law, rule or regulation to the contrary, on and after July 1,1971, it shall be unlawful for any department or division of this state or any political subdivision thereof to pay bounties on the taking of wildlife except when the state Department of Health, or any local health authorities, determine that a type or class of animals constitute a health hazard as carriers or potential carriers of disease.

 

So unless you can prove that coyotes are a health risk, don't be expecting any bounties to be offered by the government simply to help out the deer herd.