DEC Announces Proposed Rule Changes to Allow Big Bore Air Rifles for Big Game Hunting

[shawnhu]

Hope your right. They should allow xbows too then.

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I don't believe crossbows are allowed for small game, and they are currently not allowed in Westchester or LI because it resembles a rifle more so than an airgun. I don't want to get into the discussion of crossbows and their place, since this thread is about Airguns.

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[22Plinker]

The wording for the proposed regulation doesn't say anything about using air rifles to hunt big game.  It says that an air rifle may be used to take game that a .22 rim fire can legally take.  I was under the impression .22 rim fire was not legal for big game.

[shawnhu]

I don't know about Westchester big game hunting, if that's the answer you're after. Can you use a shotgun for big game in Westchester? Judging by the below comment (emphasis mine), I'm guessing 4J would be off-limits to air rifles because no other type of rifles are allowed to take big game within the WMU.

"These big bore air rifles would only be allowed for taking big game where other types of rifles are allowed to be used for taking big game. Use of rifles for big game hunting is allowed in most New York counties."

Shotguns are not allowed to be used to harvest deer in Westchester because it fires a single projectile bullet from a gun. The only reason why Airguns are allowed to be used is because it is not considered a gun powered by gunpowder. But if the statement is true about where big bore Airguns can be used, Westchester does not have precedence in using a rifle to take big game, so they may be out. It'll all come down to what the DEC says and public comments.

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[CFHunter]

The wording for the proposed regulation doesn't say anything about using air rifles to hunt big game. It says that an air rifle may be used to take game that a .22 rim fire can legally take. I was under the impression .22 rim fire was not legal for big game.

The email I got from the DEC today specifically said for Big Game Hunting.

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[Rebel Darling]

Speaking of public comments, this info might be worth another reference:

 

Citizens who wish to make formal public comments through February 8 may do so by sending an email to: [email protected] (include "air rifle regulations" in the subject line) or by writing to: Bryan L. Swift, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Bureau of Wildlife, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233-4754.

[stoneam2006]

Thin end of a fireman replacement wedge for a future minus guns? The Spidey senses are tingling on this one.

Exactly what I was going to say....lots give them air gun hunting rights as we can take away their real guns....and I'm not a conspiracy theorist usually but this comes at a time when it's gotta be in the back of all out heads

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[DirtTime]

I wonder how they compare to a .410 shotgun slug?

Good point. Wonder why the 410 with a slug would be over looked in favor of an air rifle?

 

Some NYS hunters are pretty sheltered from what implements exist in other states for big game and I imagine it is partly due to the same mentality that some need a 300wm to take a NE whitetail.

Airguns have been used to take deer and larger game for years, glad NYS is giving it a chance. Per the DEC, "big bore airgun" is defined as:

Air-powered firearms designed for big game ("big bore air rifles") are available commercially, and they fire bullets that are 0.30 inches (0.30 caliber) or larger in diameter at sufficient velocities to safely and efficiently harvest big game at ranges of about 100 yards or less. The Department proposes a clear definition of "big bore air rifle" that must produce projectile velocities of not less than 650 feet per second, and fire projectiles that are no smaller than 0.30 inches (0.30 caliber) in diameter.

To give it some perspective, some Airguns are sub-moa and have enough energy out to 100yards for full skull penetration.

Westchester currently allows Airguns to be used for hunting small game. There is no size limit for bore. They'll simply need to amend big game to the regs and Westchester would be set.

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So a promotion of a "head shot" ? Just asking, not arguing.

I guess I have no issue with them being used as long as they are extremely effective and do not have a probability of wounding big game with no recovery.

I was happy when they allowed them for small game, and I sure did have some fun over the summer getting some frogs with mine.

 

 

I will say this, if our government tries to tell me I have to turn over my actual firearms for a bb-gun ( don't care how powerful they are or how you try to spin it, still a bb-gun ), they aren't a few sandwiches short of a picnic, they don't even know what a picnic is!

[Billdogge]

Those airguns are no joke.

[shawnhu]

Good point. Wonder why the 410 with a slug would be over looked in favor of an air rifle?

So a promotion of a "head shot" ? Just asking, not arguing.

I guess I have no issue with them being used as long as they are extremely effective and do not have a probability of wounding big game with no recovery.

I was happy when they allowed them for small game, and I sure did have some fun over the summer getting some frogs with mine.

I will say this, if our government tries to tell me I have to turn over my actual firearms for a bb-gun ( don't care how powerful they are or how you try to spin it, still a bb-gun ), they aren't a few sandwiches short of a picnic, they don't even know what a picnic is!

For starters, a .410 is louder than a big bore, much louder.

Debating head shots is not for this thread, but this is what I know some Airguns are capable of, and that was asked in an earlier post. If you have the skill for it, why not? For those that don't, please don't try this at home kids.

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[Zem18]

This will be interesting. Maybe there will be 50 or 60 threads about how air riflemen should get their own season next year and we can have more hunters fighting with other hunters about which weapon to use.

[shawnhu]

This will be interesting. Maybe there will be 50 or 60 threads about how air riflemen should get their own season next year and we can have more hunters fighting with other hunters about which weapon to use.

I haven't seen a single airgunner that has complained or hinted at their own season. I wouldn't worry about them taking over "your" season.

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[moog5050]

It's just another type of gun. And price wise, there are many airguns that cost thousands. Some you can buy for less than $150. Not much different than powder burners in that respect either.

[Zem18]

Not yet. And they are "all" my seasons just like they are for everyone so I have no worries.

[shawnhu]

This will be interesting. Maybe there will be 50 or 60 threads about how air riflemen should get their own season next year and we can have more hunters fighting with other hunters about which weapon to use.

There's also no mention of the airgun must be of a rifled type. The proposal is for any air gun capable of shooting a 30 cal or larger projectile at 650fps or more for big game in NYS. That will also include slugs from air shotguns.

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[DirtTime]

For starters, a .410 is louder than a big bore, much louder.

Debating head shots is not for this thread, but this is what I know some Airguns are capable of, and that was asked in an earlier post. If you have the skill for it, why not? For those that don't, please don't try this at home kids.

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So let me get this straight. After reading the "proposals" three times it's all about noise? Well, you won't get much quieter then a firkin bow! If you are in it for the challenge, then buy a bow and learn to use it.

NY won't allow flash suppressors or the like, but now they want to add air rifles to the mix? To eliminate sound of guns being fired? Am I the only one who sees no logic in this? 

Edited December 24, 2015 by ....rob

[Zem18]

I think you missed my point. I'm all for it, use whatever weapon you want. Just sick of all the fighting within the hunting community about which weapon should get what week of the year or what season.

[shawnhu]

So let me get this straight. After reading the "proposals" three times it's all about noise? Well, you won't get much quieter then a firkin bow! If you are in it for the challenge, then buy a bow and learn to use it.

NY won't allow flash suppressors or the like, but now they want to add air rifles to the mix? To eliminate sound of guns being fired? Am I the only one who sees no logic in this?

I don't think anyone mentioned "challenge". What makes you think those that shoot air guns are also not archers?

Flash suppressors aren't designed to reduce noise, only flash concealment.

I think there's many angles to this from the DEC, one being that it's currently allowed in other states and are gaining popularity faster than bows have.

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[shawnhu]

I think you missed my point. I'm all for it, use whatever weapon you want. Just sick of all the fighting within the hunting community about which weapon should get what week of the year or what season.

I agree, the fighting amongst hunters is sickening, which is why I'm trying to stay away from those arguments, at least in this thread.

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[Skillet]

If it's effective, & humane, & gets more people hunting, it should be a no-brainer.

[raymerlo]

Get on the horn and contact your reps in the senate and the assembly to support

 

this if you want it

[mike rossi]

Get on the horn and contact your reps in the senate and the assembly to support

 

this if you want it

 

Ray,

 

This is a DEC rule change. Does it require Legislative approval? 

Edited December 24, 2015 by mike rossi

[Doc]

How do these things fit into current gun laws? Are they considered a "firearm", or are they some unique uncategorized "thing"? Are they the kind of thing that any neighborhood kid can by and use?

 

I have to admit to being totally unaware of the power of these things. They seem to have been kept out of the hunting magazines and other sources of introduction. So, the only knowledge I have of them is a TV program from Gamo a few years ago where they showed a wild hog being killed by one. I assume it was the same kind of thing they are talking about now.

 

So, other than the noise, what is the big attraction as a big-game weapon? They are slower, they have less energy, and you still have to buy the projectiles (Are they cheaper). Why would anyone buy or use one? Is there an actual reason or benefit?

[bubba]

Another money maker. More money in Pittman Robertson fund as well a no doubt 20 dollar privilege tag to but to use one.

[GreeneHunter]

It will be interesting to see if the shooting regs from a structure are the same as rifle or shorter ranges ?

[shawnhu]

How do these things fit into current gun laws? Are they considered a "firearm", or are they some unique uncategorized "thing"? Are they the kind of thing that any neighborhood kid can by and use?

I have to admit to being totally unaware of the power of these things. They seem to have been kept out of the hunting magazines and other sources of introduction. So, the only knowledge I have of them is a TV program from Gamo a few years ago where they showed a wild hog being killed by one. I assume it was the same kind of thing they are talking about now.

So, other than the noise, what is the big attraction as a big-game weapon? They are slower, they have less energy, and you still have to buy the projectiles (Are they cheaper). Why would anyone buy or use one? Is there an actual reason or benefit?

There's plenty of coverage for Airguns and hunting, and when it comes to big bore Airguns, hunting advocates like Jim Hockey have been using them for in some of his hunts. They are also in shot show every year.

According to the DEC, for the purposes of hunting, Airguns are considered firearms. I would expect that it's treated as such in every aspect of the law according to the DEC.

However, they do have several differences. They are not rifles, and can usually be used where rifles cannot. They are quieter, and produce much less energy than powder burners, and thus a lot quieter. These are all advantages, especially for bringing in new hunters into the sport. No matter the opposition, one cannot deny the lack of recoil, unnecessary need for hearing protection, and reduced lethal distance that the projectile will travel are all advancements in airgun technology.

The Gamo commercial that you likely saw was a very old commercial. IIRC, it was with a Gamo break barrel airgun that shot a 1.77 extra light weight pellet straight into the skull. Most would not choose this setup given today's available options.

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