What's your opinion?

[22Plinker]

My son and I have been out quite a bit these last couple weeks doing a bit of small game hunting.  I have noticed in a couple of our favorite places there have been several squirrels (grays and reds) that have been shot but left where they fell.  At first I thought "well, they are just squirrels" but later i thought that is prejudice thinking squirrels are lesser value than say rabbits.  There could be a round and round debate on the equality ladder of small game but that is not really the point of this.

 

What got under my skin was walking along an access trail today my son pointed out two pheasant laying on the ground next to each other.  One looked as if it had been hit with a rifle shot (illegal i may point out) because it had a single .22 size wound just below the neck from front to back.  The other was mangled but with its head mutilated as some squirrels i have seen made me think it died in a similar manner.  Seeing that annoyed me a bit because I would love to take a pheasant if i find one and here somebody shot two and just left them on the side of a trail.

 

My question is:  What do you think of people that go out and hunt for no other reason than to kill something?  I suppose an argument could be made for nuisance or pest control, but pheasant on WMA land are hardly a nuisance or pest.

[chrisw]

Its disgusting at best. I see it occasionally with deer too. Makes me IRATE to say the least, to the point where I hope I don't see it happening personally. Humans really can be the worst kind of animal. I'd definitely make a call to the local CO. What's even worse though is even if caught they will get a slap on the wrist and a minimal if any fine. I would consider placing trail cams if possible to try to narrow down who might be the culprit.

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[Ford]

I shoot the red squirrels imediadetly around my camp. I dont do anything with them.

I would not really call it hunting though. I shoot them for the damage they do. And Chipmunks. Keep them thined out around my place. Otherwise I would have a lot of ruined equipment.

Grey squirrels, if I had any, I would eat of course.

[mike rossi]

There is a gun culture and there is a hunting culture. They are not the same and are as different as day and night. The trouble makers want to conflate the two. The hunting culture is much closer to the food culture than the gun culture..... 

Edited December 31, 2015 by mike rossi

[growalot]

Or...... it's as simple as some anti nut job  trying to make hunters look bad...I suppose an example will be needed...IE: the crazies that don't believe in "killing babies" so they bomb a clinic killing adults. This mind set killing to save life. In this case PERHAPS to recruit more antis.

[bendermelissa2]

Or...... it's as simple as some anti nut job trying to make hunters look bad...I suppose an example will be needed...IE: the crazies that don't believe in "killing babies" so they bomb a clinic killing adults. This mind set killing to save life. In this case PERHAPS to recruit more antis.

Everything about that is wrong,,,but what concerns me is the mutilated animals, future criminals have a beginning with taking life and abusing them... I'd prob put a couple cameras out... Sounds like a troubled teen.. Not to mention want and waste..

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[Uncle Nicky]

I don't think any ethical hunter would approve of this. I won't shoot anything that I don't plan to eat or wear (except groundhogs, which I feed to the dogs). I know you should shoot every coyote on sight, but I just don't have it in me.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Uncle Nicky

[Doc]

Ok, ya got me. I have to confess to killing rats at the dump and not eating them. I also have shot woodchucks and left them. We used to bowfish for carp and not eat them. I know there are those that hunt crows with no intention of eating them. Out west there are those that actually shoot prairie dogs, and I doubt they are particularly prized for their good table fare. I have trapped all kinds of animals, selling the fur and throwing away the carcasses or in some cases using them for bait. I did kill a coyote with no intentions of eating him. I have called and shot foxes .... again, no intention of eating it.

 

I guess I further have to confess that I did all of that in a cold-blooded way without a shred of remorse. But then, we humans are not the only ones that do that. Back when I was a kid, we lost 22 head of sheep to some local dogs that simply went from one sheep to the next killing them for sport and never eating a one of them. I have seen the same thing with dog-killed deer. Our cat does the same thing with mice only she tortures them to death. Apparently the world is an evil place.

 

Look, hunting is a nasty business anyway you look at it. We have justified it as claiming it is done strictly for meat, as if any of us are reduced to hunting for survival. We talk about hunting to balance animal populations, but I can't remember the last time I heard somebody say, "Well, I'm going to go out and control the deer herd now". There is something in all of us that enjoys the hunt and the kill. We are predators.

 

And by the way, I'm not justifying illegal action as in the case of the pheasants. And I have always eaten every squirrel that I have ever shot if that serves as brownie points for forgiving my other wanton acts of killing. But I am not going to sanitize the act of killing wildlife by conjuring up excuses, and I am not going to try to come up with any kind of justification of shooting those rats at the dump. It I something that my primal ancestry coded into my DNA, and it is what it is.

[wolc123]

Has anyone eaten reds? I have not shot many, but they seem too small to mess around with. They like to chase the grays away, which is the only reason I shot the few that I did. They are also much tougher to hit because they seldom stand still long enough for a good shot like grays always do. As far as eating goes, I like gray squirrels much better than rabbits. Many times I had them both cooked in the same crockpot at the same time and the squirrel is always tastier than the rabbit. They are almost my favorite small game to eat, behind only ruffed grouse. I don't remember eating any pheasants, as they pretty much disappeared locally a few years before I was old enough to hunt.

[22Plinker]

@Doc - those are good points and personally I completely understand the concept of nuisance control.  My local ATV club gets beaver permits every summer because they build dams and flood out county trails. 

 

Has anyone eaten reds? I have not shot many, but they seem too small to mess around with. They like to chase the grays away, which is the only reason I shot the few that I did. They are also much tougher to hit because they seldom stand still long enough for a good shot like grays always do. As far as eating goes, I like gray squirrels much better than rabbits. Many times I had them both cooked in the same crockpot at the same time and the squirrel is always tastier than the rabbit. They are almost my favorite small game to eat, behind only ruffed grouse. I don't remember eating any pheasants, as they pretty much disappeared locally a few years before I was old enough to hunt.

 

My first take this season was a red.  Head shot that tore off his face and front leg.  You are right there is not a lot to them but after being browned and slow cooked they are decent.  Personally i suggest cooking them not quartered until the meat falls off the bone.
 

[Dave]

I think the intent of this post was the shooting and leaving eatable game to rot in the woods and not be consumed. Not the philosophy of hunting . But what we think of this terrible waste of natures resources. It seems that at times we get off the topic and rant about everything but the topic. Maybe the rats and wood chucks can be another post. My take is if I shoot it I eat it, just to kill something and leave it in the wood is sick twisted person.

[genesee_mohican]

Sick and twisted is about right. Last fall, the night before bow I heard someone shooting at night, first a ways off, then 1/4 mile up the road. They were riding around shooting. I didn't think too much of it until I saw a dead deer in the field a few days later. I walked out to look and it had a bullet hole in the neck. Called the DEC, they could do nothing they said.  Made me sick to know someone around here is shooting deer at night, for no other reason than to kill....from what it appears.

 

[132 eight pointer]

My guess would be juveniles shooting at anything and not knowing how or wanting to eat the prey. Shooting a pheasant and leaving it to be eaten by another animal doesn't make sense unless the shooter is out just to see if they can hit a moving target. Whomever is responsible should try sporting clays instead.

[The_Real_TCIII]

Are you sure they were shot? Owls and Hawks pull their heads off

[Doc]

I think the intent of this post was the shooting and leaving eatable game to rot in the woods and not be consumed. Not the philosophy of hunting . But what we think of this terrible waste of natures resources. It seems that at times we get off the topic and rant about everything but the topic. Maybe the rats and wood chucks can be another post. My take is if I shoot it I eat it, just to kill something and leave it in the wood is sick twisted person.

Actually, the intent of the thread was obvious and even directly stated in bold print: "My question is:  What do you think of people that go out and hunt for no other reason than to kill something?"

 

My reply addressed exactly what was being asked. I realize that a lot of people feel uncomfortable about addressing that point, but in spite of the fact that we don't like to talk about that, that is a very common practice and here was a thread that dared to directly ask the question. Woodchucks, rats, crows, carp, etc., are simply killed as living targets with almost nobody even trying to eat them. So instead of shame-facedly running from the question, I chose to address it directly and without apology.

[stoneam2006]

I also will admit to shooting and trapping animals without desire to eat it...I use some for trapping bait including squirrels bc I don't eat them. I hunt deer for meat and the rest is for woodsmanship practice and bait for trapping or to teach my son how to hunt. We chipmunk and red squirrel hunt all year as well as wood chuck. In my eyes small game such as squirrel woodchuck ect are not hunted for the meat by most but more for the sport and the environment will bennifit from it as the predators and scavengers will eat them and if not they will decompose into the earth and feed the ground. Just my .02

Pheasant on the other hand is not ok to me I have never shot one but love to see them and take alot of pics of them yearly

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[Skillet]

I have a big problem with people killing & wasting game, that's traditionally used as food.

Where that line is tho, is a personal choice. I mean, technically, we could eat coyotes if we for some deranged reason chose to.

    I kill lots of red squirrels, because I know they harass the greys, & I've been told they'll go into a grey nest & kill the young. I cut the tails off the reds, & leave the rest. Grey squirrel is my favorite game to eat, so I guess it's just a selfish thing I do, to ensure more greys being around.

    I have a tough time shooting woodchucks, because I don't eat them. I know they cause a lot of damage, but I don't like to kill them. I do shoot them sometimes, but it makes me uncomfortable. A little sad even.

     Predators I kill at every chance. Except, there was this coon that I trapped who I let go. She kept getting into the bird feeder, so I trapped her in a havahart. A lot of them hiss and snarl, trying to bite you if you get close. Not this one. When I grabbed the trap to pick it up, I accidentally put my hand where she could get to it. All she did was reach through the cage & grasp me by the thumb. She just held on firmly, & stared into my eyes. We had a moment, I guess . My heart melted, so I opened the door, & she slowly walked out, looked up at me & waddled back into the forest.

  I'll never shoot another crow. I have a lot of respect for how smart they are & they're pretty cool to watch.

In general, I try to not kill if it I won't eat it, or if it's not causing trouble.

 

[22Plinker]

Doc has a point that I was not specific to the otherwise in how i worded my question and I am thankful he answered it blunt and honest.  I honestly did "mean" the killing of animals that are normally killed for food such as deer, rabbit, pheasant etc but he brings up a point I never really gave much thought to...simply because it never dawned on me.

 

Without turning this thread into a debate of which animals are worthy of life or not I would like to just say thank you to everyone that replied.  There are DEC officers that patrol my area very often so I think I'll mention the pheasants to him next time i run into him.

 

For those of you who are more knowledgeable regarding the law, let me ask you this:  Is there a specific law or code that specifically says that animals can only be killed for specific reasons?

 

I remember reading that a reasonable effort must be made to acquire shot game, but I assume that is meant to deter someone from sitting in a stand and shooting at deer until one drops at his feet so he won;t have to track it down.  Is there anything that specifically says you can't go out in the woods and say... hunt down the red squirrel just because its not native?  English sparrow?  Starling?

 

I'm not planning on doing anything of the sort, just asking because if it turns out to be just some young dumb teens out killing for the thrill of killing I would feel more comfortable saying something if it were a matter of legal notice rather than just my own opinion.

[Skillet]

In all honestly, I love to hunt, but I don't enjoy the actual act of taking another thing's life. I shoot things mainly because I eat meat, & I accept that eating meat means I'm responsible for death. I'm pleased about making a good shot & I love following a heavy blood trail, but I don't lose sight of the fact that all of the excitement & bounty, comes at the ultimate price for another living being. It's respect.

There's lots of opportunities I let pass, because I honestly felt like I didn't want to disturb the animals, or rob them of something they were enjoying.

Call me a PETA member, but I swear, I think they do enjoy stuff. Play, favorite foods, maybe even a beautiful sunset (ok, maybe that's reaching). That may be just trying to place human emotion on a creature incapable of it, but I don't care.

I know that when I pull the trigger, I want to have a good enough reason for doing it, to rob that animal of it's next sunrise.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Skillet

[stoneam2006]

If you eat it or not it's about respect of the animal and woods. Treat the harvest right even if just a free meal for a fox put out of sight of others lay it peacefully and be thankful that we have the opportunity to hunt and fish the species we have.

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[Dave]

Actually, the intent of the thread was obvious and even directly stated in bold print: "My question is:  What do you think of people that go out and hunt for no other reason than to kill something?"

 

My reply addressed exactly what was being asked. I realize that a lot of people feel uncomfortable about addressing that point, but in spite of the fact that we don't like to talk about that, that is a very common practice and here was a thread that dared to directly ask the question. Woodchucks, rats, crows, carp, etc., are simply killed as living targets with almost nobody even trying to eat them. So instead of shame-facedly running from the question, I chose to address it directly and without apology.

 

Common practice for who exactly.  Definitely  not me and not the guys I hunt wit for the past 35 years. Who is Shame facedly running from the question. Where was that mentioned? I have taught my 4 sons to respect life not to shoot something living for target practice. You want target practice Doc go to the range. Do you really think its  an ethical thing to do? Just what the anti hunters and gun activist want to hear !!

Doc, that may be your opinion or spin but not everyone would agree. Every living thing is put on this earth for a reason and I am sure it wasn't for target practice. And that's MHO

 

 

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

WOW...Is this one getting deep.

[Elmo]

Deep stuff skillet.  I agree with you.

[mike rossi]

 Is there a specific law or code that specifically says that animals can only be killed for specific reasons?

 

 

 

You have to retrieve migratory game birds  immediately and take them into possession: 

 

Second Sodus opener

(Wayne County)

With the weather mild and Sodus Bay’s water not iced over, ECOs Aaron Gordon and Kevin Thomas knew it was going to be a big second season waterfowl opener in 2013. The two officers set up in a discreet location and watched as approximately 40 hunters lined the shoreline waiting for birds to fly by. The officers checked over 130 ducks that came back to the boat launch and, for the most part, the hunters obeyed the rules very well. At one point the officers did watch a group of 10 individuals shoot several ducks, and then as they became busy with more ducks overhead they left the already dead ducks to float away. This group received tickets for “wanton waste” for their lack of effort to retrieve waterfowl they had taken.

 

The full law regarding migratory game birds is in section Q under Title 6, here: https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document/I21bf3a8bc22211ddb7c8fb397c5bd26b?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

[22Plinker]

Thank you Mike Rossi.  I remember hearing something similar to this down near Tully a couple years ago.  The year we only got a couple inches of snow all winter.  I believe it was guys shooting near Tracy Lake.