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diplomat019 Proficient

diplomat019

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I still recall you kicking my ass at Fulmar before practice (everyday) lol

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no way dude!!!   i know we played baseball together.  did we do soccer as well?  I'm pretty sure some of the stuff they had us do would be corporal punishment these days lol.  i will never forget mr klag telling us to separate our hands when we held a bat because thats how ty cobb hit.   hahahahahah.   basically explains why we didn't win any games.  next year you have a pheasant hunt on me to make up for middle school immaturity lol.  

 

back to the gun.  $1000 offer.  thats low dude.   no offense.   ill give you $800 cash, and we don't get uncle sam involved!! lol

 

 

try and get on one of those antique roadshows and get that appraised.  

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Lawdwaz
Lawdwaz

You have a fellow asking for some help for a friend and instead of offering some help in identifying the piece, you toss out a pretty big number (for some, but not all) to snatch it up from an uneduca

LET EM GROW
LET EM GROW

Hey guys, im inquiring for a friend, her father left her a gun that even local gun shops do not know anything about .. so i was hoping someone here could maybe help. She is looking to just get info ab

BizCT
BizCT

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philoshop Newbie

philoshop

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One-off prototype? Quite probable.

 

"Home built"? Not unless the guy had one hell of a machine shop in his shed.

 

I don't know what kind of shop equipment was even available in the late 1800's, early 1900's. What was the Colt or Remington factory using in those days? I'm genuinely curious here if you have info.

A barrel requires a fairly precise lathe, for sure, but could have been "outsourced" by the maker. Other than that; a forge and casting setup (maybe), a solid drill press with tooling, a good assortment of files and hand tools, and a lot of patience and skill.

 

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wildcat junkie Contributor

wildcat junkie

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I don't know what kind of shop equipment was even available in the late 1800's, early 1900's. What was the Colt or Remington factory using in those days? I'm genuinely curious here if you have info.

A barrel requires a fairly precise lathe, for sure, but could have been "outsourced" by the maker. Other than that; a forge and casting setup (maybe), a solid drill press with tooling, a good assortment of files and hand tools, and a lot of patience and skill.

 

Barrels were being made way before the 19th century W/O lathes on forges where an iron strap was forge welded around a mandrel. The welded barrel blank was reamed until the bore was round then hand rifled with spiral  guide whittled from wood. Beretta is the oldest manufacture of firearms on earth having started out making barrels in 1526, most likely smooth bores in the early days..Shotgun barrels were made by forge welding twisted wire around a mandrel. This is how a 'Damascus" barrel is made.

 

In "Foxfire 5" it goes through every step required to make a muzzleloading rifle by hand forging all the parts. It also details how to lay out & make the "rifling roll". Basically one uses a chalk line laid out at an angle using the diameter of the wooden pole & the rate of twist. The pole is rolled over the chalk line leaving the spiral chalk line mark.

 

The difficulty in building the gun that is the subject of this thread would be in making the complex shapes of the cylinder, receiver, etc. Around the middle part of the 19th century, arms makers like Colt, Spencer, etc started using some pretty sophisticated machinery. The stock duplicating machines were a wonder in themselves. The "primitive" aspect of their machinery was more related to how it was driven than capability. Until steam power became prevalent, water power was used W/complicated power transmission belts, pulleys, gears etc.

 

Gun%20Manufacturing%201_zps605qs6lk.jpg

 

Gun%20Manufacturing_zps9ujq2r99.jpeg

 

I will try to find some images on how the hand rifling fixtures are made.

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wildcat junkie Contributor

wildcat junkie

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I will try to find some images on how the hand rifling fixtures are made.

 

HERE IS A LINK that shows how it was done albeit the spiral grove was laid out W/oak strips rather than a chalk line.

 

If the chalk line method is employed, the procedure would be as follows;

 

Lets say that your wood pole is 15" in diameter & you want a 1 in 72" twist. You would lay out a right angle with the base 72" long & the vertical leg 15" long. A chalk line is them stretched across the hypotenuse and the pole rolled over it starting at the base. This procedure would be repeated at least 1 time for the guide pins.

 

Muzzle loaders always had an odd number of groves so that the tool that cut 1 grove at a time would have material to rest on opposite of the groove being cut.

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Pygmy Experienced

Pygmy

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I appreciate the link with the complicated belt driven machinery.

 

About 50 years ago I worked in a local  woodworking shop that built a variety of wooden products , from simple wood pallets to tool handles... The shop was powered by a big gasoline engine ( which also powered the attached sawmill) and various machines were attached to a huge shaft via complicated gearing, leather belts, and bavit ( sp ?) bearings...

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wildcat junkie Contributor

wildcat junkie

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I appreciate the link with the complicated belt driven machinery.

 

About 50 years ago I worked in a local  woodworking shop that built a variety of wooden products , from simple wood pallets to tool handles... The shop was powered by a big gasoline engine ( which also powered the attached sawmill) and various machines were attached to a huge shaft via complicated gearing, leather belts, and babbitt bearings...

 

I fixed that for you.

 

 

Sounds like the local Amish cabinet/buggy shop except it is powered by Diesel!

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wildcat junkie Contributor

wildcat junkie

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Thanks, Wildcat....Never took the time to look up the proper pronunciation...

 

The old boys with whom I worked weren't  exactly English majors, either....<<SMILE>>...

 

I've been looking for some PIX of old time (multiple) gun stock lathes. Those are really fascinating. Have you ever seen a picture of one?

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philoshop Newbie

philoshop

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Thanks for the history lesson wildcat.

 

I spent time with some Amish folk about 20 years ago showing them how to saw logs to get the best furniture lumber. A nice log properly quarter-sawn is worth 4 or 5 times as much as the same log flat-sawn.

There was an ancient Cat diesel dozer rotting beside the building with a big belt attached. The dozer fired up, and every piece of machinery in the place was running. It was a little spooky. I leave machinery running all the time, but all the overhead belts took some getting used to.

 

Does the Garcias in downtown Buffalo still have the belt-drive fans?

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wildcat junkie Contributor

wildcat junkie

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Thanks for the history lesson wildcat.

 

I spent time with some Amish folk about 20 years ago showing them how to saw logs to get the best furniture lumber. A nice log properly quarter-sawn is worth 4 or 5 times as much as the same log flat-sawn.

There was an ancient Cat diesel dozer rotting beside the building with a big belt attached. The dozer fired up, and every piece of machinery in the place was running. It was a little spooky. I leave machinery running all the time, but all the overhead belts took some getting used to.

 

Does the Garcias in downtown Buffalo still have the belt-drive fans?

 

Yeah when I was in the Amish cabinet/buggy shop they engaged some of the drives & the whole building rumbled & shook. All of the equipment they had, planers, joiners, etc was modern stuff W/the electric motors removed & driven by belts coming up through the floor.

 

They had several independent drive systems attached to the diesel power.

 

As far as fans in Buffalo? I live about 6 hours from Buffalo. I used to go to Alden for a traditional archery shoot every August when I lived in Indiana.

Edited by wildcat junkie
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Ricky 86 Newbie

Ricky 86

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He's from Pittsford rude yuppie capital of Monroe county , the fight would have to be at a Volvo dealership, Lands End, or a Bikram yoga studio .[/quote. Harsh words Larry G, Pittsfords a nice place. Even if it's not " Where life is worth living "

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