Baiting Deer

[arrowflinger]

I am willing to bet my house that a good percentage of people who belong to this site bait in one form or another.

I would certainly hope that is not true. >

[cynthiafu]

i just have a question on baiting . is it the same for fishing ? i use corn for carp . i throw some in the water to bring them in and put some on my hook . is the wrong to do?

have the time i dont catch them but some times i get one or two .

[Pat Rockets]

Youre good..baits o.k. for fish..as long as the bait isnt a grenade...

[WNYBuckHunter]

If you want to talk drugs, take it to the political forum please. This is the Deer hunting section, not dope hunting.  Back to illegal bait piles....

[nuynai]

Thanks, WNY.  This is not what I signed up for.

[cwhite]

If you want to talk drugs, take it to the political forum please. This is the Deer hunting section, not dope hunting.  Back to illegal bait piles....

Agreed, I think I mentioned that it belongs on a different forum in my initial post.  But, that debate is one I can't resist. 

[LIHUNT]

Some officers are tricky though and they will give you the fine and confiscate your hunting equipment bow, stand, ect.... whatever was used "during the crime" and say that they can get it back after their court date. Then the make the court date the week after the season has ended.  So you still have a license.....just no gear.

[fasteddie]

Do they give you back the bait ???

[LIHUNT]

haha!!! Thats good.  I know one guy was dumb enough to put the bait out infront of his trail cam and they used the pictures taken as evidence against him.  DUMB ASS!!!!

[Larry]

If you bait and get caught why should you get your stuff back you know baiting is illegal.

To f---en bad for you

[fasteddie]

If you bait and get caught why should you get your stuff back you know baiting is illegal.

To f---en bad for you

Well ....Duh ! 

[bubba]

well when they confiscate all the stuff, I think they shoudl have a big auctionn sell it to people interested and put the money in an account used only for legit conservation efforts.

[fasteddie]

They don't give back the stuff when they take it from drug dealers , why give it back to baiters ? If the items were taken while an individual was committing a crime , they shouldn't be returned ! http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/2cents.gif[/img]

[Geno C]

until your on the chopping block for hunting near bait with out even knowing about it, god for bid... For arguments sake what if you were caught not to far from bait and you had no idea it was there, would feel ok with the fact your equipment might be taken from you for something you did not do?

this is a what if and for some guys hunting smaller tracts of private land and guys hunting public land would you find that fair? i think a fine would work... possibly a hefty one but not the taking of your equipment. thats just my 2 cents.

[fasteddie]

until your on the chopping block for hunting near bait with out even knowing about it, god for bid... For arguments sake what if you were caught not to far from bait and you had no idea it was there, would feel ok with the fact your equipment might be taken from you for something you did not do?

this is a what if and for some guys hunting smaller tracts of private land and guys hunting public land would you find that fair? i think a fine would work... possibly a hefty one but not the taking of your equipment. thats just my 2 cents.

I had a trail cam set up on a friend's property . No need for bait as it was on a trail . Never gave any thought when looking at the pics as I hadn't done anything wrong .

Someone brought it to my attention that it looked like apples in the pic . When I checked the camera , none were there but I found out that a friend had put some out to "help me" . I told him I could get in trouble for that and pulled my camera from that spot .

So , I guess I could see a person hunting a spot where someone else had baited .......... My experience was a camera but what if I had been hunting .

[Geno C]

exactly... i wouldnt want to bet the guy caught for someone elses goof... but if  iwas i WOULD NOT want my equipment jacked from me... id fight the case tooth and nail eitherway but say i lost, i loose my stuff? screw that... id rather pay a fine then loose my gear in which some has sentimental value which will never be replaced...

[cwhite]

In my opinion the penalties are small when compared to other illegal hunting practices.  The worst part of getting caught is your name in the police beat section of the newspaper.  I am reasonably certain that you won't lose your gear for first time baiting offenses.  You'll be out a days pay at McDonalds.

Honestly, I don't get all worked up over a guy dumping apples on his own land.  If someone wants to watch a pile of food with does and fawns around it all season with the occasional spike or 3 pointer showing up then have at it.  Although, I don't want to hear about how great their hunting skills are.  Rarely does a mature buck show up for a free meal.  The thing that chaps me to no end is a truck load of guys riding around with a rifle, spotlight and no respect for private property.  We lose beautiful bucks to jackers every year.  About every other year we find a dead buck on the edge of the woods that was shot and left because the guys lost their nerve after squeezing the trigger and didn't retrieve their "trophy."

[erussell]

I think its a sign of the times in our fast food, video game, playing society. People want instant gratification with minimal effort or work. Imo people who use illegal baiting techniques( not food plots or ag fields which are legal baiting and require alot of smart's, sweat and work to maintain) are like video game players who brag about beating a certain game in a day. Only to find out later they went on the internet and looked up all the secrets to beating it. In the end they beat it but they were to lazy or ignorant to figure it out on there own.

[Pat Rockets]

If feeders were legal..you wouldnt necessarily have to sit over the feeder..but thats your first impression..cause thats all you know. Deer gotta sleep and drink..it doesnt all happen in one spot..it would help them nutritionally

[erussell]

A couple of good food plots planted in a perenial are better nutritionally, financially, and physically for the deer. Food plots can provide tons of forage through out the yr for alot of deer. It will cost you less to plant and maintain a foodplot than it will to keep a feeder stocked that not only feeds deer but every other creature on Gods green earth. I can only imagine what the crows and squirrels, and bluejays  mowe down. And if you get a flock of turkey in there your feeder will clean out fast. And what a bag of deer crack is going for now it could be triple the cost of planting a food plot. Also if deer eat your food plot it grows back with a little rain with most good plants. The feeder commercials show you a huge buck feeding on the food in broad daylight, but what they don't show you is that they are also penned up also. And from what I can gather from all the articles on research about food plots and disease it has been proven to not cause the spread of such diseases by keeping animals for the most part away from eachother, unlike feeders that have deer head to head in close proximity to one another.

And by the way I have bow hunted over bait ( corn ) on a lease in Lousiana and saw only pigs, not one deer showed up. The lease later stopped baiting because it wasn't doing any good and cost them alot of money.

[bubba]

I am willing to bet my house that a good percentage of people who belong to this site bait in one form or another.

I would certainly hope that is not true. >

you should not judge people based on your own actions.

[Pat Rockets]

Not everyone has the$, time, equip, or land for a plot..how nutritional is a plot if it fails.ie. frost after youve planted...and how many calories does a deer burn digging thru 3 ft sniw to get to your plot?a feeder would drop easy to get feed  all yr long. Calories are what its all about in the coldest winter days..the colder it gets..the more calories they burn to stay warm..themore calories they need to put back..cant imagine its easy to move a food plot if it turns out your getting a different outcome than you had imagined..and i would want to have all the creatures of the wood showing  up..its only gonna make the deer more relaxed..if i spend $ on state controlled feeders and feed..perhaps theyll leave me alone on my huffy..

[cwhite]

We leave a few acres of corn and soy standing to help the deer get through the winter.  If snow gets deep enough to prevent them from accessing that feed then we hit another iceage.  A feeder may help keep a few deer alive during the winter where a food plot designed for the winter will keep a whole herd of deer alive.  I'm not opposed to winter feeding.  But if you have the land and equipment you should plant food plots.

[Pat Rockets]

You will never get me to believe food plotting isnt a form of baiting..if you do plot..more power to ya..i would if i could..but its the same dam principal..just because you put time and effort into it...and call it plotting ..thats different...like i ask b4..what are you plantibg for..do you have livestock..is it for human consumption..and where are the stands around the plot?

[erussell]

yes food plots are a legal form of baiting in NY. Supplemental feeding is not and has been proven through several studies to actually negatively impact whitetails and there habitat during the winter. Plus it has been proven even deer that are feed during the winter still lose weight, its just the way a deer is made. If supplemental feeding were to be allowed it would probably only benefit them in the fall when there bodies are trying to put on fat. Still natural brows such as acorns are still better than made made food. You can actually kill a deer by making it spend precious energy walking to your feeding sight. And the food it eats will not effect its body weight, so you are just making the squirrels and jays fat and the worn down deer will probably die anyhow and the deer that do make it make it because they put on more fat in the  fall not because you fed them. It's better to keep the herd at carrying capacity to there current habitat than to feed them.

http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerbiology/seasonalhabitatrequirementsnortherndeer.htm

In winter, northern deer experience what is called a "negative energy balance" as a result of the poor availability and quality of winter food.  This means that food quality is so poor that deer are unable to eat enough food to maintain their body weight, and as a result, they loose weight (mostly fat) throughout winter.  (Research has shown that even when northern deer are provided high-quality supplemental food during winter they still loose weight.) Because winter food is of such poor quality, deer rely on stored body fat for as much as 30% of their winter energy requirements.  Additionally, deer reduce the amount of food they require by reducing their activity and by selecting winter cover that provides shallow snow depths and warmer temperatures.

http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerhabitatmanagement/winterfeeding.htm

Deer voluntarily reduce food consumption in winter Beginning in November, deer in the Northeast do something surprising; they voluntarily begin eating less food! Deer continue to reduce the amount of food they eat each day until around late-February, when they are eating about 50% less food per day than they did in September. During winter, deer compensate for eating less food by relying on their fat reserves for energy. In fact, an adult deer may get as much as 40% of their daily nutrition during winter from fat reserves. However, a healthy deer can only maintain this level of fat use for about three months, so it must conserve its fat. Deer conserve fat and the amount of energy they need by reducing their activity (e.g., they travel less) and by spending most of their time in softwood cover, where the snow is less deep and temperatures are warmer. These behaviors that conserve energy are especially important for fawns because they have fewer fat reserves than adult deer. 

Energy conservation is the key to deer winter survival  Therefore, energy conservation is the key to reducing fat loss in deer during winter. Although deer can eat food to reduce the amount of fat they burn, natural foods only slow the rate of fat loss; they don’t stop it. This is probably where you are saying, “That is why people need to put out grain for the deer!” Well guess what; even deer feeding on nothing but grain lose weight during the winter. Even captive deer that have access to as much high-quality food as they want, still reduce the amount of food they eat beginning in November, and they continue to lose body fat through February. I have measured it myself in controlled experiments with captive deer at UNH, and I have measured it at winter feeding sites in northern NH. The fact is, deer simply do not eat enough food to maintain their weight in winter.  Why on earth do they do this? It’s because deer have evolved with a survival strategy that tells them they need to eat as much food as they can in autumn, in order to put on as much fat as possible before winter. Once winter comes, instinct tells deer that they need to rely on their fat reserves for energy, and reduce the amount of energy they burn, by not traveling and by seeking the protection of winter cover. 

Deer increase energy expenditure to get supplemental food So, now that you’ve read the above “crash-course” on deer biology, why doesn’t putting out grain or other foods help the deer in winter? First, consider the results from a recent research project, conducted in part by UNH, that looked at the diets of deer visiting places where people put out grain in the winter.  Specifically, the study analyzed deer fecal pellets collected at over 70 winter feeding sites located throughout NH. To date, the researchers found that on average, grain accounted for less than 30% of the food eaten by deer each day.

So why is this harmful to the deer? Well, consider that every deer burned some of its limited fat reserves to travel to a feeding site, but only got a small amount of food. If a deer did this only once per day it may not be so bad; however, most deer normally visit a winter feeding site a few times per day. Wild fawns I radio-collared during my research in NH visited feeding sites an average of three or four times daily.  Compared to deer not being fed, deer around feeding sites probably increase their daily activity in an attempt to get some grain, which often isn’t there. If a deer does this every day, you don’t have to be a biologist to conclude that they are probably burning far more energy (fat) then they get from the grain. These deer would have been much better off if they conserved their energy and visited a natural food source only once or twice each day. 

  Healthiest deer eat most of the food  

The results from the study I mentioned above suggested that grain comprised less than 30% of the food eaten each day by the average deer. So what about the deer that got more than this?  In my experience, it’s a small number of deer that are responsible for eating the majority of the grain at a feeding site. If you haven’t noticed it before, pay attention the next time the deer come to your food pile. You will see that there are a few individual deer that always eat first, while the other deer watch and wait for a chance to sneak in and get food. Sometimes it’s a buck, but more often it’s a dominant doe and one or two of her adult offspring that push the other deer away and eat most, if not all, of the food. You will see that fawns are almost always the last deer to eat at a feed site, and they rarely get a belly full of grain. This is unfortunate, and here’s why I think it is one of the greatest negative effects of winter feeding. Fawns are the portion of the herd that could benefit the most from winter feeding because they have limited fat reserves and they must eat during winter to survive. However, when fawns follow adults to a feeding site they generally have to wait on the sidelines while the adults eat all of the grain. So what happens to the fawns, and to the less dominant deer that get only a few bites of food, or get no food at all?  Those deer waste energy reserves they can’t spare when they travel to and from that feeding site. If this happens on a daily basis, and more than once per day, it can result in a significant amount of energy wasted over the course of the winter and can potentially decrease winter survival of these deer. Not quite what you intended when you put out food.

Deer in poorest condition get little food   You may be saying, “Well at least winter feeding benefits those few deer that eat all of the feed.” It’s possible that’s true, but consider this. Those dominant deer at a winter feeding site are also dominant in other seasons; those deer get their choice of food in the autumn and are able to put on a thick layer of fat. Therefore, the majority of those big dominant deer would survive winter regardless of how severe it is. So basically, the healthiest deer in the herd get all the feed, while deer in the poorest condition waste energy they can’t spare. Not much of a benefit if you are interested in a healthy deer herd. 

More grain means more deer   So is putting out more grain the key to helping the deer? The answer is no. Although it would seem like putting out more grain would give more deer a chance to get food, this is rarely the case. Experience has shown that putting out more grain only attracts more deer. The story is the same everywhere I go; people who are now feeding 25 or more deer all say they were feeding only a handful of deer the first few years they put out food. Deer learn where to go in the winter from their adult relatives. Deer that are fawns this winter will eventually have fawns themselves; they will bring their offspring to the same areas their parents brought them. Sometimes it takes three or more years before you see a large increase in deer, then almost overnight, you’ve got twice as many deer trying to eat the same amount of food. At many supplemental feeding sites it’s not uncommon to see 40 or more deer feeding at one time. You can only imagine what that many deer do to the natural habitat around a feeding site, especially if grain makes up only a small portion of their food requirements.