Longer gun season?

[dbHunterNY]

26 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Conveniently left out the fact of THAT number going down every year recently. 

i also conveniently left out what i feel would help that number greatly one you recall and others you might not.  don't act like the source of the info sucks.  anyway, sorry bob.  feel free to add "yea we're still in last place for that statistic, but we're doing better."

[nodeerhere]

8 minutes ago, Padre86 said:

I haven't been that far south to hunt yet.  But I have been to a lot of the WMA's and state parks in the central areas of Region 8 and 9; my experience has been that there is a lot of competition out there for the first week or two, after which the deer become very scarce.  

It's called gun season! Once they know that people are in the woods they go into hiding and move at night. It's just not on public land. Take up archery! U will see lots of deer moving on there own doing what they do. Good luck

[Padre86]

16 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

It's called gun season! Once they know that people are in the woods they go into hiding and move at night. It's just not on public land. Take up archery! U will see lots of deer moving on there own doing what they do. Good luck

Oh dam!  I had no idea the deer did that when firearm season started up.  Thanks for letting me know!   Lol...all sarcasm aside, I've hunted pieces of public and private land that are located within a few miles of each other in the finger lakes area.  The # of deer I'll see on a given day on the private land doesn't compare to what I see, or don't see, on the public parcel.  The main reason for that is on the private piece it's me and one other fellow hunting whereas on the public piece there were consistently 4-5 other hunters in the area.  The deer know where the pressure is.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Padre86

[Culvercreek hunt club]

23 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

i also conveniently left out what i feel would help that number greatly one you recall and others you might not.  don't act like the source of the info sucks.  anyway, sorry bob.  feel free to add "yea we're still in last place for that statistic, but we're doing better."

I am not saying the info sucks. It is accurate. I just think that leaving the trend out of it to paint a specific picture of doom and gloom is a little disingenuous and isn't putting out all the information.  

Edited January 17, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[nodeerhere]

I also hunt private property and after opening wk movement shuts down. And public land the same. Only thing going for the public land is people move them a bit.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

9 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

I also hunt private property and after opening wk movement shuts down. And public land the same. Only thing going for the public land is people move them a bit.

You might be over pressuring your private land then. How big is it? Me and a buddy the last day of ML SZ saw 15 deer. took 4 does. Passed 2 bucks. We sat all day from sun up to sun down and only got out of the blinds to gut the deer. The deer were taken at about 10 am (2 out of a group of 4),  one out of a group of 3 at 1 pm and a single at 4pm. The property owners take a low impact approach during the season. 

[nodeerhere]

19 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You might be over pressuring your private land then. How big is it? Me and a buddy the last day of ML SZ saw 15 deer. took 4 does. Passed 2 bucks. We sat all day from sun up to sun down and only got out of the blinds to gut the deer. The deer were taken at about 10 am (2 out of a group of 4),  one out of a group of 3 at 1 pm and a single at 4pm. The property owners take a low impact approach during the season. 

It's a small piece. All small pieces around me. 20 acre parcels. I hunt a few different parcels. But during bow season there are deer. After gun season starts we get a few days then it's all over. And I try not to over hunt it move from property to property but activity still gets slow once the shooting starts. How many acres are u hunting that u guys see then all season? Cause I sure would enjoy gun season a lot more if I seen deer

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It's a small piece. All small pieces around me. 20 acre parcels. I hunt a few different parcels. But during bow season there are deer. After gun season starts we get a few days then it's all over. And I try not to over hunt it move from property to property but activity still gets slow once the shooting starts. How many acres are u hunting that u guys see then all season? Cause I sure would enjoy gun season a lot more if I seen deer

It is two 200+/- parcels. They are across the street from one another. It is a good mixture of evergreens hardwood and thick thick brush. About 100 acres of it are fields. I have a couple small parcels that act much like you describe though. If you could get those neighbors in a co-op it would really improve.

[Buckmaster7600]

You might be over pressuring your private land then. How big is it? Me and a buddy the last day of ML SZ saw 15 deer. took 4 does. Passed 2 bucks. We sat all day from sun up to sun down and only got out of the blinds to gut the deer. The deer were taken at about 10 am (2 out of a group of 4),  one out of a group of 3 at 1 pm and a single at 4pm. The property owners take a low impact approach during the season. 

Or after the first week the rut is really winding down and deer go back to their natural habits. I laugh every time when I hear people say that deer go nocturnal from pressure. It might be the case some times but my cousin and the neighboring camps run cams in the middle of no where in the Adirondacks. In all the cameras between them and all the pictures only 1 daytime pic of a buck and that was the 17th of Nov.


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[dbHunterNY]

12 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I am not saying the info sucks. It is accurate. I just think that leaving the trend out of it to paint a specific picture of doom and gloom is a little disingenuous and isn't putting out all the information.  

we all know how our deer season went and a vast majority of us i'm sure will buy a license this coming year.  we are doing better.  just pointing out the current situation.  disheartening when people try to sugar coat it as if the current situation is then anything different than what it is.  DEC spends so many dollars managing peoples emotions and politics then say they regret doing so.  they should just focus on the goals, layout the means to get their, and then tell the public when see we together are spinning our wheels and need to try something different.  people would have more respect for them as an entity if they were capable of admitting something isn't working, versus saving face and/or doing nothing until something blows over.  most improved is always awesome but nobody wants to be in last place when it comes to anything.  if i didn't think we could be and are improving i wouldn't bother to post in these types of threads.  i also wouldn't burn vacation days on the things i do leaving only the weekends to hunt only here in NY.  i'd instead use them on out of state hunts for myself and those who hunt with me.

[nodeerhere]

30 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

Or after the first week the rut is really winding down and deer go back to their natural habits. I laugh every time when I hear people say that deer go nocturnal from pressure. It might be the case some times but my cousin and the neighboring camps run cams in the middle of no where in the Adirondacks. In all the cameras between them and all the pictures only 1 daytime pic of a buck and that was the 17th of Nov.


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I shot my big buck this year on the 17th at 4:08 pm

[dbHunterNY]

45 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

Or after the first week the rut is really winding down and deer go back to their natural habits. I laugh every time when I hear people say that deer go nocturnal from pressure. It might be the case some times but my cousin and the neighboring camps run cams in the middle of no where in the Adirondacks. In all the cameras between them and all the pictures only 1 daytime pic of a buck and that was the 17th of Nov.


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there's spots i can hunt and others i can't but run cams anyway.  as soon as the hunters pile in they say deer go nocturnal.  one guy who's hunted deer successfully longer than i've been alive, didn't see anything all season.  sat in the same stand every time he went out.  said they must have figured him out and waited to go through there and onto the corn field after dark.  i had a trailcam picking up 50 deer a morning working through there in a small staging area plot in had it in.  it was less than 100 yards away, in front of him, but down over a bank across and on my side of our property boarder.  a good flowing creek masked noise of many of them working through there too in his defense.

i've seen you type that hunters should adapt and change things up when it's not working out.  that definitely is the truth and something i consider when hunting.

[nyantler]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:35 AM, Belo said:

I  believe the whiner you speak of is mostly bitching about his or her neighbors. I would guess only 2% of hunters in NY enjoy large enough tracks of private land where their herds are not impacted by neighboring hunters. Heck, a lot of guys hunt public land.

It is hard to hunt <100 acres and have any real influence on the herd if:

A. you don't know what's being shot by neighbors, so you're not sure if you should leave the doe alone or shoot more

B. every bb and yearling buck you let go gets shot by the neighbors too.

Listen, I know that's a selfish thought. But how many times on here do you see "if it's legal, who cares". "if you have that tag, fill it". The bitching crowd is typically the ones frustrated by bad neighbors with no ability to influence it.

That pretty much sums up exactly what I was saying.

[Buckmaster7600]

there's spots i can hunt and others i can't but run cams anyway.  as soon as the hunters pile in they say deer go nocturnal.  one guy who's hunted deer successfully longer than i've been alive, didn't see anything all season.  sat in the same stand every time he went out.  said they must have figured him out and waited to go through there and onto the corn field after dark.  i had a trailcam picking up 50 deer a morning working through there in a small staging area plot in had it in.  it was less than 100 yards away, in front of him, but down over a bank across and on my side of our property boarder.  a good flowing creek masked noise of many of them working through there too in his defense.
i've seen you type that hunters should adapt and change things up when it's not working out.  that definitely is the truth and something i consider when hunting.

Someone that hunts the same stand that their not seeing deer from doesn't sound like a successful hunter, Maybe lucky?


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[buckman4c]

Give it time. The dynamics of hunting are changing pretty quickly and not necessarily for the better. Our numbers are dwindling and as our numbers dwindle efforts to maintain deer populations or reduce them in needed locations becomes increasingly more difficult. I'm not sure what methods Ny uses in determining an acceptable harvest rate but here in Pa it goes beyond the resources (deer and habitat). There's also weight given to hunters and citizens input. With that said, most of Pa went from a herd reduction plan to a maintaining plan to current day herd expansion plan.

Eventually hunter numbers will dwindle in states like Ny and Pa to the point where longer seasons and more tags are needed to maintain a balance between habitat and wildlife. Although your Upper State with the winters and such may never see liberal changes.

If you look at States with good numbers of whitetails but far fewer hunters than we have, their seasons are in many instances much, much longer and WAY more liberal. As was also mentioned, many of these States also do not contend with winter loss like States in the Northeast.  Liberal changes may be slow to come but eventually I think we will see them.

Whoever mentioned Mississippi, man is that crazy down there. I hunted there for first time this year. Started our hunt on New Years Eve day and it was 75 degrees. It cooled by the end of the week but there rules are super liberal. A deer a day, up to (3) bucks and (5) does. Baiting permitted so long as you can't see it from the stand. They also do things by the "honor" system. No tags to attach on the deer after harvest. They also IMO, have a "weird" Antler Restriction, 10" inside spread or 13" main beam. Made judging bucks pretty difficult especially when you had mere seconds to see and decide. Three of us killed (7) deer in four good days of hunting. We had (3) days of bad weather. Very, very different down there. The woods/pine stands were super thick where I was hunting. I was setting up on logging roads or open lanes made by mowing between sections of pine. There was no going in after them. That's part of why they can use dogs down there. Good case in point when comparing other states. They don't have winter kill so the herd control is almost entirely hunter related. 

[gjs4]

It's more like the cruise ship you described with the DEC selling all the passengers on board that they are lucky enough to see their new up close and personally designed water interaction attraction.


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[DirtTime]

12 hours ago, Belo said:

 

nothing at all. But when we talk legislation on this forum the reason some are in favor for shortening seasons, reducing dmp's, implementing 1 buck rules and ARs etc. is because they don't want neighbors filling all the tags they have right now and have no legal recourse to stop it. I'm not saying it's my opinion, but there is a mindset that education can only go so far and some members here wonder why other members would ever want to change anything and I'm simply providing a reason why.

I have brown its down neighbors on 2 sides. I'd love to see some ARs because it seems our mature buck population keeps dwindling. Is that selfish? of course, but I'm just being honest. We take a doe and maybe a buck or 2 every year and practice QDM, but if the neighbors don't it's all for nothing. It's the same reason many here don't want longer gun seasons. Save some freaking deer.

Deer aren't over populated in most hunting woods. They're overpopulated in parks and no-hunting zones. This leads to frustrated drivers, gardeners and insurance companies and also leads to overhunting and scarce sightings in other areas.

I see the point on what you are saying, and agree with most of it. Especially the part in red. 

4 hours ago, Padre86 said:

It is on you, if you're hunting public land; you and I agree on that.  But the solution is where I disagree with you.  The solution, at least for western NY, is to buy into a lease and make friends with a land owner.  There are tens of thousands of acres of public land in NY, not even counting the ADK's.  But the problem is there are also a lot of hunters competing for deer on those acres.  Unless you've found a quiet piece of public land that isn't heavily traveled, of which there aren't many, your best bet is to find access to private land.

There is simply too much hunting pressure on most the WMA's I have been to here in western NY for it to be productive or enjoyable.  The ADK's and Tug Hill is a different story, but then again there is a night and day difference between the deer densities there as compared to the densities in western NY.

This is true on a certain part as well.

 

The issues arise when you have people hunting WNY and have no idea what is going on in other areas. There are public land in my area that aren't hit that hard because it involves driving to more remote land. I'm not even talking the ADK's. I have said this before, Johnny Apple knows his chit in Area A, but he knows nothing about Charly Seed in area B, and vice versa. This site has more hunters who actively post from WNY then just about anywhere else in the state. The other ratio is mainly from down near the city and those areas. 

I get that many have first hand knowledge of deer populations being down for their area. I get the lousy neighbor syndrome. The down side to shoving new regs down peoples throats is not every one is a poacher or killing every dear that moves in their sight path.

I stated that I was getting restless and ready to just start filling my tags last season. I didn't. I still let does with fawns get a pass, and I couldn't bring myself to shoot small deer that were barely bigger then my dog. I ate tag soup and have no problems with the decisions I made to not shoot at certain deer. I am by no means an antler hunter, yet I still have something inside that will not kill small deer.

 

The DEC makes the rules, we either follow them or we don't. What about letting the gun hunters have some time in the already existing late season? At some point there need to be compromises from all ends of the argument. Just sayin'.

[wolc123]

As a pure meat-hunter, I think the DEC does a pretty good job in NY state.   I do understand why the trophy-hunters are not too happy.  Consider a move to one of the other 49 states if you don't like what we have here.  I like it that I can shoot any buck that I choose.   For the last few years, I have passed a few 1.5 year bucks earlier in the seasons, and nearly every time was rewarded with a larger or older one later, but I still hope that we never see mandatory antler restrictions.  I pass smaller 1.5's only because they have less meat on them, not in a quest for more wall decorations.   If I have a buck tag late in the season and a 3" unicorn presents a shot, I am taking it.   The only little tweaks I would like to the current seasons is full inclusion of the crossbow in archery season, and maybe a return to the October 15 opener.   I miss having those first couple weeks of October for squirrel, rabbit and grouse hunting, but I just can't bring myself to hunt small game when deer season is open and my freezer is empty or close to it.         

Edited January 18, 2017 by wolc123

[dbHunterNY]

Someone that hunts the same stand that their not seeing deer from doesn't sound like a successful hunter, Maybe lucky?


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No idea. He's retired and logs the hunting hours. brief conversations with him seem to indicate he knows the basic stuff. Every year he takes a deer or two. Some taken with bow. I think many of your reasonably successful but average hunters still get complacent at times.

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[Padre86]

2 hours ago, buckman4c said:

Whoever mentioned Mississippi, man is that crazy down there. I hunted there for first time this year. Started our hunt on New Years Eve day and it was 75 degrees. It cooled by the end of the week but there rules are super liberal. A deer a day, up to (3) bucks and (5) does. Baiting permitted so long as you can't see it from the stand. They also do things by the "honor" system. No tags to attach on the deer after harvest. They also IMO, have a "weird" Antler Restriction, 10" inside spread or 13" main beam. Made judging bucks pretty difficult especially when you had mere seconds to see and decide. Three of us killed (7) deer in four good days of hunting. We had (3) days of bad weather. Very, very different down there. The woods/pine stands were super thick where I was hunting. I was setting up on logging roads or open lanes made by mowing between sections of pine. There was no going in after them. That's part of why they can use dogs down there. Good case in point when comparing other states. They don't have winter kill so the herd control is almost entirely hunter related. 

No, they can use dogs down, and in certain other states, because the hunting lobby has much more sway down there than it does in NY.  The fact is, there are parts of NY's wilderness, especially remote parts of the ADK's, where the terrain and vegetation is just as challenging as what you see down south, and the deer are dam hard to find because of it.

 

But you can't use dogs to hunt them, or even be afield with a dog, because there has been an adamant and vocal advocacy to keep so called "unethical" practices, like hounding, out of NY...refer to the law suit brought against the state about running dogs on bears back in the 90's if you want a more recent example.

[nodeerhere]

13 hours ago, wolc123 said:

As a pure meat-hunter, I think the DEC does a pretty good job in NY state.   I do understand why the trophy-hunters are not too happy.  Consider a move to one of the other 49 states if you don't like what we have here.  I like it that I can shoot any buck that I choose.   For the last few years, I have passed a few 1.5 year bucks earlier in the seasons, and nearly every time was rewarded with a larger or older one later, but I still hope that we never see mandatory antler restrictions.  I pass smaller 1.5's only because they have less meat on them, not in a quest for more wall decorations.   If I have a buck tag late in the season and a 3" unicorn presents a shot, I am taking it.   The only little tweaks I would like to the current seasons is full inclusion of the crossbow in archery season, and maybe a return to the October 15 opener.   I miss having those first couple weeks of October for squirrel, rabbit and grouse hunting, but I just can't bring myself to hunt small game when deer season is open and my freezer is empty or close to it.         

Crossbow full inclusion during archery? So u can kill more 3" bucks! Lol!! And nobody said u can't hunt rabbit or squirrel the first 2 wks. 

[Five Seasons]

20 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

when it comes to whitetailed deer and their acknowledged range.... NY state has the 4th highest amount of acreage open to the public for hunting them.  we're 10th in the nation for antlerless deer harvested per square mile.  7th in the nation for buck harvest per square mile.  we lead the nation with the highest % of yearling buck harvest that our the easiest deer to harvest. we don't need longer seasons.  if you need a longer season and more time to hunt then you had an unusual hardship keeping you from the woods, didn't care to make more time for hunting, or need to be under the wing of a more experienced hunter to help get the job done. this utilized opportunity is bitter sweet in my opinion as our hunting satisfaction and anticipation is based on quantity and not quality.  our state managed predator population as a whole is increasing and we currently have deer in the best situation given we've got nothing like EHD, CWD, or blue tongue to contend with.  this target rich environment can't last forever and highest yearling buck take in the nation down right sucks from perspectives of both a quality hunting experience and whitetail ecology .....but nevermind we're doing fine.

the way we're going is a like a cruise ship on the best body of water with a slow leak and no bilge pump.  there's more than enough hands on board to fix the situation but everybody's too worried about enjoying their own vacation to bother what's best for everybody as a whole to keep the vacation going.

 

I wonder how this data is skewed by the insane amount of accessible land in the adirondaks... which also has extremely low deer populations per square mile. Essentially hunter on top of hunter anywhere in the southern zone is just nuts. Ask anyone who lives anywhere within an hour of a city how many shots they hear every night and morning and you wonder how any deer at all survive.

[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, buckman4c said:

 

Whoever mentioned Mississippi, man is that crazy down there. I hunted there for first time this year. Started our hunt on New Years Eve day and it was 75 degrees. It cooled by the end of the week but there rules are super liberal. A deer a day, up to (3) bucks and (5) does. Baiting permitted so long as you can't see it from the stand. They also do things by the "honor" system. No tags to attach on the deer after harvest. They also IMO, have a "weird" Antler Restriction, 10" inside spread or 13" main beam. Made judging bucks pretty difficult especially when you had mere seconds to see and decide. Three of us killed (7) deer in four good days of hunting. We had (3) days of bad weather. Very, very different down there. The woods/pine stands were super thick where I was hunting. I was setting up on logging roads or open lanes made by mowing between sections of pine. There was no going in after them. That's part of why they can use dogs down there. Good case in point when comparing other states. They don't have winter kill so the herd control is almost entirely hunter related. 

that was me. I lived in oxford for 2 "seasons". I like some of MS and dislike others. this was the first year they changed baiting to a 100 yard and in view as opposed to out of view, many opposed to it (and believe it or not, it was the turkey hunters who were more upset). More concerned about rifles being used. crossbows are new to ms as well, and their primitive weapon season includes .35 caliber and up breech loading single shot rifles (kinda neat).

they also mandate orange and harnesses on public land. there is a lot of debate about the tag system as well and it'll change soon I bet. and of course common sense 30 minutes before and after sunset laws.

Ultimately the difference between the 2 states is inline with the government minding their own business. NY feels they know what's best for you and your land. MS believes you as a land owner can manage your game as you see fit. (no bag limits for land owners at all). But MS does control their public land fairly well. Remember though, MS is scarcely populated. The whole state's population is less than the city of Atlanta. So hunting clubs are big and it's not hard at all to get access to a thousand acres for some membership dues. That just isn't how we hunt up north.

Finally, they killed off a lot of deer a decade ago and there are many hunters down there fearful that they went to far. Also keep in mind a normal doe weighs 70lbs though so you need to kill more to get your meat lol.

[Five Seasons]

12 hours ago, Padre86 said:

No, they can use dogs down, and in certain other states, because the hunting lobby has much more sway down there than it does in NY.  The fact is, there are parts of NY's wilderness, especially remote parts of the ADK's, where the terrain and vegetation is just as challenging as what you see down south, and the deer are dam hard to find because of it.

 

But you can't use dogs to hunt them, or even be afield with a dog, because there has been an adamant and vocal advocacy to keep so called "unethical" practices, like hounding, out of NY...refer to the law suit brought against the state about running dogs on bears back in the 90's if you want a more recent example.

 

there are also seasons for dogs, and usually they're not allowed on public lands. But yes dogs are HUGE conflict in the state. many hunters are pissed when dogs run free on posted property with little enforcement.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

LOL...It seems that your last 2 posts fit right into the way many Ny land owners are thinking and doing on their own property in this state now. Some cry about it and some do it. Really if it was all private land one could use whatever weapon they deemed fit during the open deer season. When state land gets involved then the state has the say what goes on with the land they pay the taxes on.