What is the point of youth turkey season?

[dbHunterNY]

only a minority of hunters are willing to put in more effort and work to gain access.  then others once they have it blow the opportunity.  i know of a local produce farmer that let hunters in to hunt.  hunters said sure we'll shoot doe to help you out.  along comes a pic of a nice buck.  they all hunted for it and meanwhile didn't shoot a single doe.  now they don't hunt there.  funny thing is i know this because the landowner found me, desperately asking for QDM minded hunters that would fill doe tags.  he wants hunters! yet the hunters that got the boot are probably complaining about finding a hunting spot is hard.  that was a limited access honey hole if i ever saw one.

[Doc]

21 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

i've come to realize a problem exists with DEC related activities.  a vast majority happen during the week when everyone is at work.  TV costs a ton for airtime that's only seen at an old folks home rec room.  give a couple DEC staff members a day and a half or two off to put on a seminar or something during the weekend.  rotate staff to have something going on every weekend a couple months before the season.  it could be anything related to hunting.  things like that in late summer get people fired up for fall hunting season.  we have a few educational facilities (Pine Bush, Five Rivers, etc.) here in the capitol region but most programs happen during the week and end up with lack luster participation.  also special season hunts are poorly promoted to reduce deer populations in suburban/urban areas.  you pool local hunters and very successful hunting groups willing to make a trip out of it don't participate.  for example in ithaca, one hunter took almost a dozen deer on the property open for the special hunt and most others took nothing at all. seems like i can come up with others.

I remember that back in the olden days, schools would periodically have what they called "Assemblies" which were often chorus or band programs put on for the benefit of the entire school population. Also, they used to have outside public service activities where subject matter experts of all kinds would offer up a presentation. These were well attended by the entire school population. Don't they do that anymore? That was what I had in mind for DEC/school interfaces. More kids reached. More kids exposed to conservation, natural resources, the benefits and needs of managed resources of the day. Maybe some conservation history and the benefits of people partaking in outdoor activities of all sorts. It may even serve to open the minds of future landowners to include the need to have hunter involvement on their lands.

Camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, and other outdoor activities can no longer simply be handed down from one generation to another. That worked back in the day when the culture was more rural, but now just like all competing products and techno activities, we need active sales efforts to keep people engaged in the outdoors. It is time to be thinking about such things.

[Larry]

The point of youth turkey season or any youth season is so some kids with little hunting knowledge can kill your turkey or your 20pt. buck before you can.

Some of the most fun I have had hunting was taking my kid and their buddies on the youth hunts. Never laugh so hard as when I took my son and two of his buddies on the youth duck hunt. They had six mallards come in and they all missed. I laughed so hard I was sitting on the bow of the boat I fell over backwards into the boat. Those three kids shot over 100 shells and shot two ducks. One of the best time I had.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Larry

[wooly]

14 minutes ago, Larry said:

The point of youth turkey season or any youth season is so some kids with little hunting knowledge can kill your turkey or your 20pt. buck before you can.

Some of the most fun I have had hunting was taking my kid and their buddies on the youth hunts. Never laugh so hard as when I took my son and two of his buddies on the youth duck hunt. They had six mallards come in and they all missed. I laughed so hard I was sitting on the bow of the boat I fell over backwards into the boat. Those three kids shot over 100 shells and shot two ducks. One of the best time I had.

Lol- a few years ago I took out a friends son for the youth turkey season.

He talked a big game about what a "crack-shot" he was with daddys big 12ga. but he could back it up on paper.

When we got to the field, we used a plowed up gravel pit for cover as we made our way across. On the other side stood 4 gobblers who were just as surprised to see us as we were to see them standing about 20yds away.

The young gun I was with was so excited his jaw dropped wide open and he raised his hand and pointed his finger at them as they were formulating an escape plan! No shots fired...

I still make fun of him whenever I see him and check to make sure his pointer finger pistol ain't loaded before he goes waving it around at anybody,lol

[Doewhacker]

7 hours ago, Doc said:

I remember that back in the olden days, schools would periodically have what they called "Assemblies" which were often chorus or band programs put on for the benefit of the entire school population. Also, they used to have outside public service activities where subject matter experts of all kinds would offer up a presentation. These were well attended by the entire school population. Don't they do that anymore? That was what I had in mind for DEC/school interfaces. More kids reached. More kids exposed to conservation, natural resources, the benefits and needs of managed resources of the day. Maybe some conservation history and the benefits of people partaking in outdoor activities of all sorts. It may even serve to open the minds of future landowners to include the need to have hunter involvement on their lands.

Camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, and other outdoor activities can no longer simply be handed down from one generation to another. That worked back in the day when the culture was more rural, but now just like all competing products and techno activities, we need active sales efforts to keep people engaged in the outdoors. It is time to be thinking about such things.

It's too bad they don't use modern things like social media to promote such things. Like Facebook and stuff....oh wait they do! 

Lol

Seriously, there are tons of things the DEC promote and do. You just don't know about them because they use different methods to reach the age range that uses them. 

[Doc]

Well, it may be true that they regularly put on presentations in the schools. I have to admit that being retired, with no children or grandchildren still in school, there may be some happy surprises there as to any DEC involvement in the schools. That would be great if it is happening already. Has anyone actually heard of such school presentations?

As far as social media is concerned, I am not sure how many people (kids or otherwise) actually go out of their way to find internet information on conservation or activities of the outdoor world if they don't already have an interest existing. About the only thing that I have seen the DEC do along those lines of public interface was to sever their hosting of National Hunting and Fishing days at the region 8 headquarters. That's not exactly the kind of positive P.R. that I am suggesting .... lol.

[Five Seasons]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 1:08 PM, dbHunterNY said:

only a minority of hunters are willing to put in more effort and work to gain access.  then others once they have it blow the opportunity.  i know of a local produce farmer that let hunters in to hunt.  hunters said sure we'll shoot doe to help you out.  along comes a pic of a nice buck.  they all hunted for it and meanwhile didn't shoot a single doe.  now they don't hunt there.  funny thing is i know this because the landowner found me, desperately asking for QDM minded hunters that would fill doe tags.  he wants hunters! yet the hunters that got the boot are probably complaining about finding a hunting spot is hard.  that was a limited access honey hole if i ever saw one.

You know what's funny though, if all hunters worked equally as hard to gain access then those who are currently working hard would be screwed. It's supply and demand and that's what has driven up lease prices and posting signs. Like I said earlier, and you can all disagree with it, but I'm speaking the truth. The less neighbors hunting near me the better. Sorry, just the truth.

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, Belo said:

You know what's funny though, if all hunters worked equally as hard to gain access then those who are currently working hard would be screwed. It's supply and demand and that's what has driven up lease prices and posting signs. Like I said earlier, and you can all disagree with it, but I'm speaking the truth. The less neighbors hunting near me the better. Sorry, just the truth.

There is some truth to what you say, but I believe I have seen a lot of situations where there were just enough hunters in the woods to keep the deer on the hi-alert mode where they tend to move primarily in darkness, and not enough hunters to keep deer up and moving. Which can be  a big player in getting our deer. I see that a lot on private land. It is all locked up with a couple of guys sitting there keeping the deer in survival mode and not moving from wherever the have found sanctuary. That can make for a long cold boring day.

 

[beachpeaz]

Just so I can stop following this thread and the idiotic comments by equally as idiotic people, let me answer all your questions:

Yup, I'm a douche bag

Yup, I'm the father of the year

Yup, I'm jealous

Yup, I'm bitter

Yup, I had a bad experience

Yup, I have one single turkey tied to a tree just for me that some kid shot

Did I miss any other hypotheses by anyone?  Any more attacks on my personal character for expressing an opinion?  No. OK then.  Moving on. 

It's a pretty sad world that we live in that an opinion gets transformed into what this thread is. 

SMH.

Edited May 8, 2017 by beachpeaz

[dbHunterNY]

On 5/6/2017 at 10:14 AM, Doc said:

I remember that back in the olden days, schools would periodically have what they called "Assemblies" which were often chorus or band programs put on for the benefit of the entire school population. Also, they used to have outside public service activities where subject matter experts of all kinds would offer up a presentation. These were well attended by the entire school population. Don't they do that anymore? That was what I had in mind for DEC/school interfaces. More kids reached. More kids exposed to conservation, natural resources, the benefits and needs of managed resources of the day. Maybe some conservation history and the benefits of people partaking in outdoor activities of all sorts. It may even serve to open the minds of future landowners to include the need to have hunter involvement on their lands.

Camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, and other outdoor activities can no longer simply be handed down from one generation to another. That worked back in the day when the culture was more rural, but now just like all competing products and techno activities, we need active sales efforts to keep people engaged in the outdoors. It is time to be thinking about such things.

closest thing i can think of is the local k-12 schools in different districts around here try to have an outdoor show.  all day friday it's open for classes to come see and learn.  then open to the public that friday evening, saturday and sunday.  anyone or thing having to do with the outdoors and hunting ask for permission to setup a booth for free; trappers, outfitters, educations orgs, rod and gun clubs, etc.  DEC and Encon usually have a "booth" setup.  

This past year it's gotten canceled at the local school due to outside issues.  The booths consume the gym and lobby, so some of us where going to looking into having maybe a few adjacent classrooms and the auditorium setup with wildlife seminars.  when you walked in you could go see whichever one floats your boat.  anything from aging a deer jawbone and aging a deer on the hoof, bird stuff, photography, bow fishing, fishing, fish stocking, or forestry/habitat related stuff.  we've even thought about having a safety and educational seminars on using and setting up or bow or gun for hunting that we call quality deer hunter classes.  more nuts and bolts kind of stuff and how setups differ/work compared very basic stuff you learn in hunter safety.  so hopefully it can get resurrected.

[Larry]

You forgot dumb ASS. Just trying to help that’s all.

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

You know what's funny though, if all hunters worked equally as hard to gain access then those who are currently working hard would be screwed. It's supply and demand and that's what has driven up lease prices and posting signs. Like I said earlier, and you can all disagree with it, but I'm speaking the truth. The less neighbors hunting near me the better. Sorry, just the truth.

i agree with all of that. $ and leasing is very common.  in my experience walking in the shoes of both, some hunters seem think $ to lease trumps all else and it's simply not the case.  lease $ is just a supplemental thing.  haven't seen a lease price yet that pays off the taxes on a farm or comes close.  the benefits landowners get from having good trustworthy hunters on their property that are within reason serving the landowners needs is far more important than the $.

1 hour ago, Doc said:

There is some truth to what you say, but I believe I have seen a lot of situations where there were just enough hunters in the woods to keep the deer on the hi-alert mode where they tend to move primarily in darkness, and not enough hunters to keep deer up and moving. Which can be  a big player in getting our deer. I see that a lot on private land. It is all locked up with a couple of guys sitting there keeping the deer in survival mode and not moving from wherever the have found sanctuary. That can make for a long cold boring day.

 

i see this a lot too.  some groups flood a property and sit in the same stands every time out.  the deer spend the day just browsing around in pockets of cover until dark because the hunters are patterned.  that's never going to change though.  it's a part of hunting.  also the grass on the other side of the fence will always seem greener and more mysterious for holding that ghost of a buck you're after. you'd be surprised how often that small patch of paradise beyond your reach holds a just a couple more warm bodies that haven't seen anything more than you all day.

[Five Seasons]

23 hours ago, Doc said:

There is some truth to what you say, but I believe I have seen a lot of situations where there were just enough hunters in the woods to keep the deer on the hi-alert mode where they tend to move primarily in darkness, and not enough hunters to keep deer up and moving. Which can be  a big player in getting our deer. I see that a lot on private land. It is all locked up with a couple of guys sitting there keeping the deer in survival mode and not moving from wherever the have found sanctuary. That can make for a long cold boring day.

 

totally agree. it's what I like about gun. Not so much with bow or turkey. And if there's too many clowns they go nocturnal... or at least the big boys do. But yes, plenty of bad weather mornings when you just know the goof who only comes in during "gray light" didn't get out of bed to bump the deer your way.

[Doc]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:35 AM, dbHunterNY said:

closest thing i can think of is the local k-12 schools in different districts around here try to have an outdoor show.  all day friday it's open for classes to come see and learn.  then open to the public that friday evening, saturday and sunday.  anyone or thing having to do with the outdoors and hunting ask for permission to setup a booth for free; trappers, outfitters, educations orgs, rod and gun clubs, etc.  DEC and Encon usually have a "booth" setup.  

This past year it's gotten canceled at the local school due to outside issues.  The booths consume the gym and lobby, so some of us where going to looking into having maybe a few adjacent classrooms and the auditorium setup with wildlife seminars.  when you walked in you could go see whichever one floats your boat.  anything from aging a deer jawbone and aging a deer on the hoof, bird stuff, photography, bow fishing, fishing, fish stocking, or forestry/habitat related stuff.  we've even thought about having a safety and educational seminars on using and setting up or bow or gun for hunting that we call quality deer hunter classes.  more nuts and bolts kind of stuff and how setups differ/work compared very basic stuff you learn in hunter safety.  so hopefully it can get resurrected.

I am glad to hear about school districts being active in bringing school kids into the wonderful world of the outdoors. But it really is the place of the DEC to at least be co-organizers, not just merely participants.

Here's the way I see it. The most important tool that the DEC has to control the wildlife populations, is the hunters. That means that they need to become "hunter managers" as well as wildlife managers. In the interest of doing the best job of that possible, it seems that one of their activities would be fostering the largest crop of hunters every year that they can. That in itself should be motivation for interfacing with school kids every chance they get. I am not talking about being a mere participant, but they should be the initiators as well.

The opportunities are there and need to be explored more vigorously. Having a couple of special youth day hunts is nice, but there are even bigger, more effective actions to reach the potential entry level future hunters that could have huge impacts on the declining hunter population. And I believe that the DEC is the proper organization that should lead that activity.

[dbHunterNY]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

I am glad to hear about school districts being active in bringing school kids into the wonderful world of the outdoors. But it really is the place of the DEC to at least be co-organizers, not just merely participants.

Here's the way I see it. The most important tool that the DEC has to control the wildlife populations, is the hunters. That means that they need to become "hunter managers" as well as wildlife managers. In the interest of doing the best job of that possible, it seems that one of their activities would be fostering the largest crop of hunters every year that they can. That in itself should be motivation for interfacing with school kids every chance they get. I am not talking about being a mere participant, but they should be the initiators as well.

The opportunities are there and need to be explored more vigorously. Having a couple of special youth day hunts is nice, but there are even bigger, more effective actions to reach the potential entry level future hunters that could have huge impacts on the declining hunter population. And I believe that the DEC is the proper organization that should lead that activity.

i agree Doc.  Us as hunters, fishermen, or state recreational land users are DEC's only feasible means or biggest influence to effectively manage fish and wildlife.  i agree they should be blazing the trail for education not outside entities pleading for involvement.  I feel that if DEC was more efficient and active in that sense, they'd spend less time fighting and managing adult hunter opinions later on that prevent them from do the tasks they should instead be doing.  "NY Open to Hunting and Fishing" is a bit ridiculous with simply having opportunity that's promoted more than normal.  they should be focusing more funds on planned out education and outreach like we're talking about, because in DEC's defense departments are minimally staffed to hand this stuff.  youth and new hunters have a fire to participate and learn that no seasoned hunter with predetermined outlooks and mindset will ever match.  i've seen it with my involvement.

[Doc]

20 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

i agree Doc.  Us as hunters, fishermen, or state recreational land users are DEC's only feasible means or biggest influence to effectively manage fish and wildlife.  i agree they should be blazing the trail for education not outside entities pleading for involvement.  I feel that if DEC was more efficient and active in that sense, they'd spend less time fighting and managing adult hunter opinions later on that prevent them from do the tasks they should instead be doing.  "NY Open to Hunting and Fishing" is a bit ridiculous with simply having opportunity that's promoted more than normal.  they should be focusing more funds on planned out education and outreach like we're talking about, because in DEC's defense departments are minimally staffed to hand this stuff.  youth and new hunters have a fire to participate and learn that no seasoned hunter with predetermined outlooks and mindset will ever match.  i've seen it with my involvement.

And yet there was a huge distancing of the DEC from public involvement when the DEC region 8 headquarters ended their hosting of The National Hunting & Fishing Day, an event that drew thousands of people.......Exactly the opposite of what is needed. By the way, does anyone know if Region 8 was the only one to withdraw support of National Hunting & Fishing Day, or was it an action by the entire DEC?

[growalot]

Lol...I think beach left me out of that last post...I didn't see narrow minded..hahaha 

[growalot]

If they were..wouldn't surprise me even a tiny little bit...though I've made my opinion on 8's leadership well known over  the years .

[nyantler]

I often wonder why some individuals get all cranked up about a special weekend for youth hunting or fishing... does one weekend really disrupt your life all that much where you just can't handle it? Are you maybe afraid a kid might just kill a bird, deer or catch a fish that you already labeled as "yours". Relax... it's just kids getting a weekend to themselves without selfish adults mucking it all up for them... I promise there is no apocalypse coming because of it.

[dbHunterNY]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

And yet there was a huge distancing of the DEC from public involvement when the DEC region 8 headquarters ended their hosting of The National Hunting & Fishing Day, an event that drew thousands of people.......Exactly the opposite of what is needed. By the way, does anyone know if Region 8 was the only one to withdraw support of National Hunting & Fishing Day, or was it an action by the entire DEC?

i only know of Region 8 doing a National Hunting and Fishing Day event years ago.  Being in Region 4 with DEC's main headquarters we hear of just about anything.  I could be wrong, but promotion would've otherwise been minimal to non-existent. September is the perfect time too with weather and foliage changing, migatory waterfowl shipping out, and hunters just getting fired up for what awaits.  I'd rather see more money and time go into actual events to get people actively engaged than the "I Hunt NY", "I FISH NY", "Governor Cuomo's (insert whatever) NY" marketing.

[growalot]

Ny...to some extent I can see where people have a problem with it..To be honest I have an underlying issue..though I'm happy the kids get the chance. Perhaps not for so many years, get a harvest then go regular season. That's just my  OP.

Now to why some may have an issue, it is difficult to understand the extent of how bad some areas have it with illegal hunters,unless you live in such an area. It's not the thought of kid's getting an early trophy ,even one a person's been eyeing all season. It's the knowing some dirt bag without a kid in tow is  free shooting it, because they know gun fire in the youth season doesn't get a second thought. I know they can and do  engage in this anytime of year,hey no one is target practicing near dark on a Sunday nor at predawn a day or two before the opener.. There is no stopping it,just like all those shots we all talk about up to an hour before / after the opening of each gun season day.  No they all aren't yote hunting It's irritating to some, that youth seasons by design makes it easier for these types. Just some things to consider before condemning a person for their voicing their thoughts. Though the OP seemed to have an issue with parents and grand parents,,,disregarding the fact many kids have neither to take them out thus the mentor opportunity these hunts provide,which is great.

[Doc]

It's hard to imagine too much bad that youth seasons can bring about that would impact my hunting. I don't know about turkey seasons because I don't turkey hunt, but as far as the youth deer hunts, I seldom hear any additional shooting beyond what is already there with the small game hunters. So I have never felt that it has much impact (good or bad). The only thing I fear is that we establish these seasons and proudly pat ourselves on the back and feel like the good work is now done.......end of problem. Of course we all really know that it is not, but as long as we have done something, we all drop interest in carrying the effort any farther than these few "feel-good" days.

What an interesting study it would make to create a database that tracks the few participants in these youth days to see just how many of them actually continue to buy adult hunting license in the subsequent half-dozen or so years into adulthood. Maybe we would all be surprised at the good news (or the bad).

[turkeyfeathers]

6 hours ago, nyantler said:

I often wonder why some individuals get all cranked up about a special weekend for youth hunting or fishing... does one weekend really disrupt your life all that much where you just can't handle it? Are you maybe afraid a kid might just kill a bird, deer or catch a fish that you already labeled as "yours". Relax... it's just kids getting a weekend to themselves without selfish adults mucking it all up for them... I promise there is no apocalypse coming because of it.

^^^^^

This

I can't believe this thread is still going. Even if I didn't have a youth hunter I'd still get it   I'd vote to give them 2 weekends !

[nyantler]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:27 PM, Doc said:

It's hard to imagine too much bad that youth seasons can bring about that would impact my hunting. I don't know about turkey seasons because I don't turkey hunt, but as far as the youth deer hunts, I seldom hear any additional shooting beyond what is already there with the small game hunters. So I have never felt that it has much impact (good or bad). The only thing I fear is that we establish these seasons and proudly pat ourselves on the back and feel like the good work is now done.......end of problem. Of course we all really know that it is not, but as long as we have done something, we all drop interest in carrying the effort any farther than these few "feel-good" days.

What an interesting study it would make to create a database that tracks the few participants in these youth days to see just how many of them actually continue to buy adult hunting license in the subsequent half-dozen or so years into adulthood. Maybe we would all be surprised at the good news (or the bad).

I tend to agree... getting them in the woods a couple times isn't the problem... keeping them in the woods could be a different story all together. But I suppose no exposure to hunting at all would be far worse.

[chas0218]

So why should we as adults give them the easy avenue. Working in the school system I see it non-stop. The worst thing you can do for most if not every youth is give them special treatment. I think too much of that happens nowadays. It gives these kids a sense of entitlement, one of the last things they need. I'm sorry but these same people advocating for youth seasons are the same ones that bitch about everyone gets a trophy and antler restrictions. My 2 sons can go out during regular season and kill a turkey or deer nothing comes easy in life.

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