The Psychology Behind the Quest For Trophy Racks

[stubby68]

21 minutes ago, jman22 said:

Here is my opinion on that question. Strictly an opinion that I don't expect all to agree with. Both hunters utilized some sort of skill to shoot that buck and both had some luck on their side.  But I still have to say the unknowing hunter had more luck on his side. If he hunted that same stand every day he probably wasn't paying attention to wind , bedding, his scent trail, entry and exit routes etc... He unknowingly aligned many specific factors to allow that buck to cross within his range without being had. 

The guy that was targeting the buck was probably paying attention to all these factors. He most likely had multiple setups, knew where this buck was bedding, and had a entry and exit that allowed him to get close. He probably wasnt hunting every day if the conditions didnt favor it. From experience if your hunting the same stand day in and day out (when conditions don't always favor it), many deer, especially the older does and bucks that frequent that area with figure you out after day 1. Again, I'm talking aBout a lot of specifics here and I know I did stray off path a bit from stubby68 question. 

Either way the hunter shot a buck that he should be extremely proud of, no matter what the circumstances! 

Even with more then one stand it was still luck that the hunter was in the right stand at the right time. Knowing that buck would walk by that stand just because the conditions were right is imposable. It is no different then having only one stand and sitting in it only when  conditions are perfect. He still has to get lucky and have that buck walk within range. 

                  Playing the wind and having good enter nice and exit points is just hunting. Nothing more. Yet the guy who does all the right things just to get any deer and ends up getting a big buck that he didn't know was even alive is called lucky and the guy who knew the buck was in the woods and gets lucky enough to have him walk by while he is in stand is said to be skilled.

           How many times have we seen guy put up pics of big bucks caught on cams by there tree stand, saying look at this I'm not there and he walks by. I have hunted this buck for 3 years and he never shows when I am there. Was it a lack of skills that caused the guy to not be there when that buck walked through. No it is always called unlucky. But let that buck walk through when he is in the stand and it was skill. Knowing the buck is in the area and getting him only means you were lucky to have him walk by. Just as lucky as you would be if you had no idea the buck was around. No matter how many stands you set up or how much work you do it is luck that puts in the right spot at the right time. If you hunted that deer for 3 years and never got him with all that skill then how come all of the sudden he happens to walk by and give you a good shot one day out of 3 years? It is luck. Like I said before. Point to a specific date, time and place and to which buck you will kill at that time and place and that is skill. Going out numerous times and not seeing your trophy and then finally having him just show up is luck. Buying lottery tickets every week for 2 years and finally winning is luck. Then keep buying lottery for 2 more years and winning again is still luck. You know the winning number is going to be drawn just not when it will be your number. Knowing a buck travels a certain area and and hunting that area until you get him is the same thing, luck. You knew he was around you just had to be lucky enough to have him walk by while you were there.

              

[NFA-ADK]

I like the challenge but not so much that I have a good chance of a wound.  This is why I prefer a compound and not traditional because traditional are simply not accurate compared. 

Is luck involved yes but the guy who spends the time and effort to know how and when a deer is coming in and has studied how to properly hunt that deer is the one who has more luck because of the preparation he has performed, this is why some hunters are better than others.  Anyone can sit in a stand for a week, the guy who is prepped knows when that best chance is and usually will capitalize on it, both need a bit of luck on their side to get a good ethical kill but the one who prepped with months of shooting and scouting is usually the one who connects best and most often. 

[jman22]

13 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

Knowing that buck would walk by that stand just because the conditions were right is imposable. 

              

Really? Sorry bud but your wrong there. Definitely not impossible. 

Not gonna take the time to reply to your other points, cause I see your only willing too see things one way. 

Luck is always involved,  but skill can enhance your luck in many scenarios in life, not just hunting. And the lottery  being compared to hunting?? Oh well I'll leave that to someone else. 

 Happy hunting. 

[Doc]

So where are you people finding all these deer who are slaves to a daily habit. Our deer are extremely random in their movements. They do not always bed in the same areas, and their feeding habits are dependent on what favored foods are in season, and during rut the guys go wherever the does lead them and they don't own calendars or watches. There are also interruptions due to land use changes and non-hunting human invasions that can turn a deer from following a trail that they would have otherwise taken. Perhaps farm deer in heavy agricultural areas develop a more repetitive and predictable pattern of movements depending on what crops are planted where. Maybe because of the patterns of scattered woodlots, they must move in certain ways. But in our area of big woods and constantly changing food sources, the deer are pretty much marching to their own drummer every different day (big, small, young, old). If you can determine even a wide general area where they may be filtering through, you are doing pretty darn good. But where I hunt, luck does play a much bigger role than people want to admit.

The only patterns that are somewhat reliable are the escape routes on the day that the orange invasion begins. As long as the hunter entry patterns stay the same, the deer reactions will stay mostly the same.

[TreeGuy]

So grow, here's the way I perceived your post.... Your a meat hunter who feeds your dog's venison.

That right there shows me your exact hunting style. It also makes it apparent why you took offense to all the posts about patience and knowledge etc. Like having the patience to take your "rutted" steaks and make burgers, or sausage. I've killed a pile of rutted bucks and have NEVER had a bad steak. Lets not get into all the other reasons it may have tasted bad or what you ( as a meat hunter ) could have done to preserve the meat of an animal YOU killed. What a waste. Unless, you purposely kill deer to feed your dog's.

There's so many ways you could have played that scenario out, yet you immediatly need to go for the fork horn... That also shows how set you are in your ways being the right way, or best way, or the way all hunters should be.

Like I said many times before,I will never hesitate to express my style of hunting but I am not going to go through a rediculous song and dance to make my way the right and only way or am I going to bash fawn slayers because the meat is "better". If we could only keep it to facts and try and educate each other on facts Vs old school methods of thinking (not methods of hunting) that the "old way" is the only way.





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[growalot]

Treeguy I love when you guys respond to me...your charecters shine through... The problem with it is 

1. I discussed several times in here just how bad that buck was,discussed how I processed it, froze it, tried making jerk,sausage and burger out of it..it remain smelly and tasted like it smelled. Thats nice  you've never had such an experience. Sad that as with many things and people with your narrow mind set, if you havent experienced it, then it's impossible. I suppose youd have felt better if I had  just tossed it all in the garbage instead.

2. I apparently misread you scenario. I  thought I read a fork,a 1 1/2 ajd a 10....... See in my area and yes I'm a meat  hunter, we have many good sized 6 and 8  point 1 1/2 yr olds. This is yet another thing you can check that I've discussed. So yes with that in mind, I'd go with a 1 1/2. Problem is I said it would depend on several things and I may have gone for the 10. Do you guys assume no one reads what I post, so you'll just stick words in my mouth unchallenged? 

I have to say ....stop acting like  putts..then read what you write..you talk out both sides of your mouth. I can't even laugh at it any more.

" I'm not going to bash fawn SLAYERS"...... " If we could just to stick to the FACTS and try to EDUCATE each other to the facts vs old school"..... "I'm not going to go through a ridiculous song and dance to make my way the only way"

Heres your problem there is no old school. What it is are hunters making their own choices and guys like you can not stand it! You don't see people who choose not to trophy hunt only, saying you need EDUCATING . You hear them saying, everyone should just go enjoy what ever type of hunting they want to do. Not you though and it is sad you are so blinded you can't see what you write. That you just can not admit you want it your way for everyone.

Edited July 1, 2017 by growalot

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 hours ago, jman22 said:

Really? Sorry bud but your wrong there. Definitely not impossible. 

Not gonna take the time to reply to your other points, cause I see your only willing too see things one way. 

Luck is always involved,  but skill can enhance your luck in many scenarios in life, not just hunting. And the lottery  being compared to hunting?? Oh well I'll leave that to someone else. 

 Happy hunting. 

Bud you have to remember...All this talk about...Hunting...From a guy that shoots all the yearling bucks he can? Yes thats hunting for him!  Seriously!!!!!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

So where are you people finding all these deer who are slaves to a daily habit. Our deer are extremely random in their movements. They do not always bed in the same areas, and their feeding habits are dependent on what favored foods are in season, and during rut the guys go wherever the does lead them and they don't own calendars or watches. There are also interruptions due to land use changes and non-hunting human invasions that can turn a deer from following a trail that they would have otherwise taken. Perhaps farm deer in heavy agricultural areas develop a more repetitive and predictable pattern of movements depending on what crops are planted where. Maybe because of the patterns of scattered woodlots, they must move in certain ways. But in our area of big woods and constantly changing food sources, the deer are pretty much marching to their own drummer every different day (big, small, young, old). If you can determine even a wide general area where they may be filtering through, you are doing pretty darn good. But where I hunt, luck does play a much bigger role than people want to admit.

The only patterns that are somewhat reliable are the escape routes on the day that the orange invasion begins. As long as the hunter entry patterns stay the same, the deer reactions will stay mostly the same.

Are you saying that the...Trophy-Mature buck does just what all the other deer in the woods do?  I sure hope not?

I do see the word..Mostly..in there?

Edited July 1, 2017 by Four Season Whitetails

[jman22]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

So where are you people finding all these deer who are slaves to a daily habit. Our deer are extremely random in their movements. They do not always bed in the same areas, and their feeding habits are dependent on what favored foods are in season, and during rut the guys go wherever the does lead them and they don't own calendars or watches. There are also interruptions due to land use changes and non-hunting human invasions that can turn a deer from following a trail that they would have otherwise taken. Perhaps farm deer in heavy agricultural areas develop a more repetitive and predictable pattern of movements depending on what crops are planted where. Maybe because of the patterns of scattered woodlots, they must move in certain ways. But in our area of big woods and constantly changing food sources, the deer are pretty much marching to their own drummer every different day (big, small, young, old). If you can determine even a wide general area where they may be filtering through, you are doing pretty darn good. But where I hunt, luck does play a much bigger role than people want to admit.

The only patterns that are somewhat reliable are the escape routes on the day that the orange invasion begins. As long as the hunter entry patterns stay the same, the deer reactions will stay mostly the same.

Ill speak for terrain I'm familiar with which is anything except Big woods. 

Deer can be slaves to daily habits if it favors survival. If there is a constant  (wind, food source, security etc..), they do make predictable moves and bed in predictable areas. Im not saying this guarantees they are going to go by your stand every time,  but you can be in the game.

Deer definitely dont bed in the same spot everyday as you mentioned. Bedding is almost always based on wind. A deer's nose is its best survival mechanism. Bedding can be very predictable based on wind direction and terrain. I am speaking for my area, which is hills and farm land. 

I'm not sure "random" is the best word to describe deer movement. There is actually very little random movement by deer. It may seem random,  but they are moving with a purpose. I'd be willing to bet this is the same for big woods, but over a much more broader sense. 

[TreeGuy]

Grow, I'm sorry you can't laugh anymore. Reading your responses still make me laugh.

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[growalot]

[Doc]

6 hours ago, jman22 said:

 

........I'm not sure "random" is the best word to describe deer movement. There is actually very little random movement by deer. It may seem random,  but they are moving with a purpose. I'd be willing to bet this is the same for big woods, but over a much more broader sense. 

Yes, they have purpose to their movement, but have many of those purposes and choices which can occur to them in different ways at any time and in no particular order. In big woods, those choices become even more numerous by necessity. Actually game cameras can illustrate this nicely as a rather nice buck usually only shows up once at any particular location showing how seldom they repeat activity. Farm country may promote more consistent patterns because of crops and reduced areas of concealment, but a lot of deer activity that I have seen appears to be casual feeding as opportunities avail themselves (a leaf here, a few acorns there). In our area of more expansive unbroken forested area, there is very little that will constrict deer movement down especially if you are talking about bow-range distances.

[Larry]

hey doc do you ever sleep

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

hey doc do you ever sleep

Sometimes ...... lol.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Every kid gets a trophy.

[Nomad]

Bristol is " big woods ?"

[moog5050]

40 minutes ago, Larry302 said:

Bristol is " big woods ?"

Compared to Ave D, yes it is.  

[Doc]

6 hours ago, Larry302 said:

Bristol is " big woods ?"

In this case I use the term "big woods" to indicate that there is no agriculture in the area or anywhere near the area. In other words, the deer pattern and move in mature forest without the aid or motives of crops or pastures or fields.

[growalot]

That would be like campa valley of steep terain and trees..

[Doc]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 1:46 PM, Four Season Whitetails said:

Are you saying that the...Trophy-Mature buck does just what all the other deer in the woods do?  I sure hope not?

I do see the word..Mostly..in there?

What I am saying is that the year that a big buck starts repeating itself into any sort of defined pattern that humans can detect, is likely the same year that he gets harvested. I do wish that our deer ran on a rail, following the same trails and feeding habits over and over, but they don't.

[growalot]

camps ...terrain  yes I was on the Kindle and just got back to this

[phade]

This thread is no different than AR or xbow vs vertical.

Stop worrying about others. No value in threads like this. People who believe in luck and people who believe they drive their success, whatever that is defined as.

In a society that is plagued with the "everyone gets a trophy mentality," I suppose I shouldn't be shocked by the people who want to downplay any value in actually getting one and the actions thereinto that result.

Hunting is one of the sacred cows where not everyone gets a trophy.

That's why.


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[Doc]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 9:49 PM, phade said:

This thread is no different than AR or xbow vs vertical.

Stop worrying about others. No value in threads like this. People who believe in luck and people who believe they drive their success, whatever that is defined as.

In a society that is plagued with the "everyone gets a trophy mentality," I suppose I shouldn't be shocked by the people who want to downplay any value in actually getting one and the actions thereinto that result.

Hunting is one of the sacred cows where not everyone gets a trophy.

That's why.

Actually, had you read the OP, you would have noticed that the question was really quite non-judgmental and simply aimed at why antlers are the standard of establishing trophy status. Being a part of the hunting community, I find it interesting to solicit opinions on things of this sort. Just kind of casual conversation. I'm not worrying about others. I am just curious as to what other hunters think on different subjects.

But we do have those who like to stifle curiosity and conversation and can't help but find fault with anything posted on a forum. Well, that's their personality, not mine. I will continue to post questions on things that I find curious and the hell with the flamers.

[GreeneHunter]

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

Actually, had you read the OP, you would have noticed that the question was really quite non-judgmental and simply aimed at why antlers are the standard of establishing trophy status. Being a part of the hunting community, I find it interesting to solicit opinions on things of this sort. Just kind of casual conversation. I'm not worrying about others. I am just curious as to what other hunters think on different subjects.

But we do have those who like to stifle curiosity and conversation and can't help but find fault with anything posted on a forum. Well, that's their personality, not mine. I will continue to post questions on things that I find curious and the hell with the flamers.

Post away ... Interesting Topic !

[phade]

Actually, had you read the OP, you would have noticed that the question was really quite non-judgmental and simply aimed at why antlers are the standard of establishing trophy status. Being a part of the hunting community, I find it interesting to solicit opinions on things of this sort. Just kind of casual conversation. I'm not worrying about others. I am just curious as to what other hunters think on different subjects.
But we do have those who like to stifle curiosity and conversation and can't help but find fault with anything posted on a forum. Well, that's their personality, not mine. I will continue to post questions on things that I find curious and the hell with the flamers.

Doc - you can't see the forest for the trees. Your curiosity aside, this thread is filled with people making accusations about imparting the standards for why they hunt into others standards and belief systems.

But, you assume I didn't read your post and also assumed that I was speaking only to you.

There are 120 posts and half are about telling others what they should believe in.




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