The Psychology Behind the Quest For Trophy Racks

[left field]

Just add another POV to the mix. I am a novice deer hunter but a fairly accomplished fly-fishing angler and there is an old adage in fly fishing that like all old adages, rings true.

The stages of an angler:

1. I want to catch a fish
2. I want to catch a lot of fish
3. I want to catch a big fish
4. I want to catch a challenging fish
5. I just want to go fishing

Lot's of people stop or get stuck on 2 & 3 and some on 4.

Does that apply to hunters?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

13 minutes ago, left field said:

Just add another POV to the mix. I am a novice deer hunter but a fairly accomplished fly-fishing angler and there is an old adage in fly fishing that like all old adages, rings true.

The stages of an angler:

1. I want to catch a fish
2. I want to catch a lot of fish
3. I want to catch a big fish
4. I want to catch a challenging fish
5. I just want to go fishing

Lot's of people stop or get stuck on 2 & 3 and some on 4.

Does that apply to hunters?

It sure does.  Some folks stay at one stage longer or permanently and some move through a stage more quickly.  This is written about in many articles. This one is one I was familiar with. 

 

http://charliealsheimer.com/ca/articles/5stages.html

 

[Buckmaster7600]

Also luck. Anyone who gets a deer is lucky that it walked in front of them. Just because one scouts, preps, puts in bait plots and anything a person does to prepare for the hunt ,it does not mean that any deer will walk in front of them and give them a shot. Young or old that deer still has to walk through the right spot at the right time. You can sit on a bait plot for days knowing that the deer come there to feed and see nothing. Then all of the sudden one day those deer shof up.  That is luck. Tell me you will kill a specific deer at a specific time and do that. That is skill not luck. Funny how if someone hunts a big buck day in and day out and never gets that buck they can say they had no luck but if they get that buck it was skill not luck. Why not say they didn't have any skill on they days they did not get that buck. I have no skill when it comes to basketball but if I throw the ball at the hoop enough times I will eventually get lucky and have one go in.  Again that is luck not skill.
         You have said hunting and killing big bucks every year shows skill. Yet you also say you have eaten tag soup because you couldn't get the one you were after.  So that means you didn't have the skill you speak of those years.  Or is it that you weren't lucky enough to have that buck walk by you.

What if your style of hunting isn't to sit and wait but to go after find follow and kill. Is that still luck? I can promise you that hunting the big woods there are thousands of guys every year that hope to get lucky and kill a deer yet a very high percentage go buckless for the year. Yet a very select few year after year shoot mature big woods bucks. Is this because they are more lucky??


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[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, stubby68 said:

                Do you really think those cavemen or native Americans were killing them because they were the biggest and baddest. More like they killed them for the food. They used every part of the animal they killed and yes sometimes for decoration. 

              It is seen or used as a sign of strength that does not mean it is a sign of strength. If someone is bumbling through the woods and a huge 12 point jumps up and he kills it does that make him the top dog or just lucky. As I have said before. Saying you will kill a specific buck at a specific time ,and then doing so, shows you have something special. Going out time after time until you get lucky enough that the buck walks in front of you is just luck.

      

did anyone in this thread say they were antler hunting and threw away the meat? The bigger the deer the more mouths to feed right?

And yes, even a blind squirrel finds a nut. Not too many blind squirrels find a bunch of nuts. So if I walk into your mancave and I know you hunt average land or maybe even public land and you have some nice racks on the wall then I know you're a good hunter. Sign of strength in the field. 

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Not always, weighed 225 maybe gross 120. I let him go 2 days before I killed him because I didn't have enough time to study him and I hadn't seen his track yet to see how big he really was. A "trophy" is in the eye of the beholder. He didn't get mounted because I have bigger already on the wall.


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where i come from that's a shooter. Past the ears and nice tine length. I think the argument here isn't 3.5 and up, but stubby over here taking out the yearlings because they taste soooo much better than all the meat you got off that buck. That ain't no yearling

Edited July 17, 2017 by Belo

[left field]

25 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

It sure does.  Some folks stay at one stage longer or permanently and some move through a stage more quickly.  This is written about in many articles. This one is one I was familiar with. 

http://charliealsheimer.com/ca/articles/5stages.html

 

Thanks, Culver. That's about it.

I'm pretty much at stage 5 but will drop into other stages depending on the water, day or my needs. Last week I fished the EB Delaware. For those who don't know this is just about the most difficult water on the east coast to catch a trout - educated, spooky fish with an abundant bio mass. To trick them with your artificial you need the right fly in the right size and colour with a perfect presentation on a 15' leader. I started out at stage 5 then after four hours (and about 20 fly changes) was very much in stage 1.

But at the end of the day, I was well back into stage 5.

[Five Seasons]

52 minutes ago, left field said:

Just add another POV to the mix. I am a novice deer hunter but a fairly accomplished fly-fishing angler and there is an old adage in fly fishing that like all old adages, rings true.

The stages of an angler:

1. I want to catch a fish
2. I want to catch a lot of fish
3. I want to catch a big fish
4. I want to catch a challenging fish
5. I just want to go fishing

Lot's of people stop or get stuck on 2 & 3 and some on 4.

Does that apply to hunters?

this is turkey for me. I skipped right to 5. Have only killed 1 bird in 4 years. Don't get frustrated, just like being in the woods in the spring. Would getting a nice big tom put a big smile on my face and dinner on the table? sure. But it's not why i do it.

Deer is different though. Personally i'm somewhere with 2 and 4. I want a nice buck, but i also have a family of 5 that deposits my paycheck at wegmans and stresses me daily. So alone time woods therapy I love the most. But I'd be a dirty liar if I told you I didn't want those horns. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Belo

[Doc]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

I think you can go back to caveman and native american times. The chief always wore the biggest head dress, or wore the largest animal skin or had the biggest skull on top of his walking stick lol. It's a sign of strength, it's that simple.

Ok, there is the answer that I was hoping I would never see on this thread. I have heard many anti-hunters mocking us as being motivated to kill animals to prove our manhood because of some assumed deficiency in that department. Honestly, I have never had that as a motivator to take up hunting or glean satisfaction from matching wits with nature's wild creatures. Damn! I hope that kind of thinking never creeps into my needs for hunting. For one thing, I find it insulting, and for another thing if that ever turned out to be true, that would make some of those arrogant, worthless, loud-mouthed antis correct in there taunting assumptions. Say it isn't so!

For me the competition has always been between me and the deer that I am hunting. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I don't have to keep score to see if I am winning or not. I don't have to assign numbers to impress anyone. And I am not after any peer recognition. But most of all, I have never had to resort to some deer's antlers to prove my strength, worth, manhood, or any other personal attribute.

[left field]

10 minutes ago, Belo said:

But I'd be a dirty liar if I told you I didn't want those horns. 

 

I'm not unhappy with a big trout, especially one I targetted and worked to get. But I am also not unhappy if I go fishless.  

In terms of trophies, I've only ever taken two caught fish pics - a seatrout in Iceland that the guide asked me to do for his website and a bonefish another guide insisted on as we were fishing in a federal biosphere that had special regs and he legally had to document the fish. (Not sure about that last one, but what the hell.)

I do take a close-up video of every river I fish. I guess I am haunted by waters or something like that. 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

Ok, there is the answer that I was hoping I would never see on this thread. I have heard many anti-hunters mocking us as being motivated to kill animals to prove our manhood because of some assumed deficiency in that department. Honestly, I have never had that as a motivator to take up hunting or glean satisfaction from matching wits with nature's wild creatures. Damn! I hope that kind of thinking never creeps into my needs for hunting. For one thing, I find it insulting, and for another thing if that ever turned out to be true, that would make some of those arrogant, worthless, loud-mouthed antis correct in there taunting assumptions. Say it isn't so!

For me the competition has always been between me and the deer that I am hunting. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I don't have to keep score to see if I am winning or not. I don't have to assign numbers to impress anyone. And I am not after any peer recognition. But most of all, I have never had to resort to some deer's antlers to prove my strength, worth, manhood, or any other personal attribute.

Over millions of years of evolution, Doc. that has been the story. Why would it be some dirty secret to mention it?

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Over millions of years of evolution, Doc. that has been the story. Why would it be some dirty secret to mention it?

Because I have always hoped that the motivations were a bit more noble than that. I have no doubts about my personal traits and features that any set of antlers could fix.....lol. Of course it can be mentioned, and as I said has been repeated over and over by the anti's, but I still view it as offensive and meant to denigrate hunters.

[left field]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

For me the competition has always been between me and the deer that I am hunting. 

1

Riffing off this for a moment and putting in terms of trout again, it's never me against the fish.

I know that the trout will act in a predictable way, be found in an expected location and respond appropriately to a measurable prompt. The failing - if there is one - is mine and the competition is between the angler I was yesterday and the angler I am today.

Or maybe not...

Well, Stu, I'll tell you, fishing hunting surfing's not a sport, it's a way of life. It's no hobby. It's a way of looking at that fish deer wave and saying, "Hey bud, let's party!" 

 

[TreeGuy]

Been hunting 35 years. I would say 200 or more deer that I have killed. 

200+ deer, never had one go over 100yrds or lost one or gut shot one.... That's impressive !!! Almost, unbelievable !

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

 

 

200+ deer, never had one go over 100yrds or lost one or gut shot one.... That's impressive !!! Almost, unbelievable !

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Yeah that's what I was thinking. 200 in 35 years?  6 a year? From a spot that didn't have doe tags till when??  Not that it really matters but 200??? Like you said! 

[TreeGuy]

I still don't understand why there is those who meat hunt ( no offense or judgment ) voicing their opinion on why they think they know the psychology behind the rack hunter. Maybe we should explore the psychology behind those that think they know the psychology of others. If your a meat hunter, and you want to fill your freezer and punch tags and that's it, you CANNOT understand those that are after "racks" "trophy" "mature" deer. Why makes assumptions on the way some hunt if you have never walked a mile in their boots. Whereas some "trophy" hunters are also meat hunters. Point being, the OP and this whole thread could have been informative as to the actual OP, if those that understand or are after the quest for trophy racks could have been able to answer without arguement or disagreements as to who what and why.

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[stubby68]

1 hour ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Yeah that's what I was thinking. 200 in 35 years?  6 a year? From a spot that didn't have doe tags till when??  Not that it really matters but 200??? Like you said! 

9N and 9H have had doe tags as loans as I have been hunting. Also those are not the only places I have hunted.  Add the deer I killed when I bow hunted plus the ones with gun those years. I have gotten two doe tags on first draw every year sence they started the computerized system. Plus two from the free second chance. Not always in 9N ,or 9 H but as I have said they are not the only places I hunt. Plus muzzy tags plus sign over tags. Not really hard to add up 200 or more in 35 years. I could add in all the ones I killed when hunting with nusences tags , that would be a big number.

[TreeGuy]

9N and 9H have had doe tags as loans as I have been hunting. Also those are not the only places I have hunted.  Add the deer I killed when I bow hunted plus the ones with gun those years. I have gotten two doe tags on first draw every year sence they started the computerized system. Plus two from the free second chance. Not always in 9N ,or 9 H but as I have said they are not the only places I hunt. Plus muzzy tags plus sign over tags. Not really hard to add up 200 or more in 35 years. I could add in all the ones I killed when hunting with nusences tags , that would be a big number.

How long do the battery's last on your feeder ?

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[stubby68]

3 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

 

 

How long do the battery's last on your feeder ?

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Why would I need a feeder? Deer are not that scarce.

[TreeGuy]

Stubby, I'm not saying it's not true that you have legally harvested 200+ deer during their respective seasons, I'm just throwing a joke out there as that is an absolutely giant number. As I said... Unbelievable.

On a side note, not that it makes you at all less of a hunter than the next guy, what is the largest buck you have taken ( antler size) and about how many bucks have you taken that would be in the 3.5 yr old or older ? Out of 200 I am beyond curious to know as this thread is about the quest for antlers, not pelts

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[gjs4]

I love this post. Puts the ass in assumption. Why work if you can eat free at a homeless shelter? People who don't shoot big deer or mature deer make a choice just like those who do.... the only difference is the majority of those that are labeled trophy hunters prize the experience and effort required- not the ironic labeling those with a lack of drive who cherish their freezer meat.


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[Nomad]

10 hours ago, TACC said:

6-8 doe tags available?

Not in the southern zone

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Well I can get one for bow ,two in gun first round two more second round , farm gives me two dmaps and I could get two signed over . That's nine I no longer ML so I'm not sure about those .8h .

i only get the two farm tags , as I really don't want much meat, my buck is enough for the wife and I and if my daughter whacks one that's way to,much . Last year we took 3 nice sized ones, gave a bunch away and still freezer is pretty full . 

I have a friend who grew up poor up North they lived on frogs, fish and deer ( sometime poached ) today he owns a factory and a water front home , he says " if I have to hunt for my food I've got bigger problems then the size of my buck ."

[stubby68]

3 hours ago, TreeGuy said:

Stubby, I'm not saying it's not true that you have legally harvested 200+ deer during their respective seasons, I'm just throwing a joke out there as that is an absolutely giant number. As I said... Unbelievable.

On a side note, not that it makes you at all less of a hunter than the next guy, what is the largest buck you have taken ( antler size) and about how many bucks have you taken that would be in the 3.5 yr old or older ? Out of 200 I am beyond curious to know as this thread is about the quest for antlers, not pelts

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               Largest would be 12 point he was 4.5. Next would be a 10 point at 3.5. The rest are a few 10 a 9 couple 8 basically everything down to a forkhorn. Couple of the 10 were 3.5 the rest 2.5 and under. I would say 4 in the 3.5 and one older.  None of which were bucks I hunted specifaclly. They were just happened to walk in front of me at the right time. Or wrong time for them.

[stubby68]

3 hours ago, gjs4 said:

I love this post. Puts the ass in assumption. Why work if you can eat free at a homeless shelter? People who don't shoot big deer or mature deer make a choice just like those who do.... the only difference is the majority of those that are labeled trophy hunters prize the experience and effort required- not the ironic labeling those with a lack of drive who cherish their freezer meat.


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          Talk about assumptions. Just because one hunts for meat and not bone does not mean they do not have the drive or that they do not prize the experience. Not shooting big old bucks does not mean I do not see them or have the open tuning to take them. It just means I didn't shoot them. As you said it is a choice. Just as I do not shoot every young deer that walks by me. 

              The prize for me is being out there the meat is a bonus. If it has bone on its head fine that makes good knife handles. 

[Lawdwaz]

5 hours ago, stubby68 said:

               Largest would be 12 point he was 4.5. Next would be a 10 point at 3.5. The rest are a few 10 a 9 couple 8 basically everything down to a forkhorn. Couple of the 10 were 3.5 the rest 2.5 and under. I would say 4 in the 3.5 and one older.  None of which were bucks I hunted specifaclly. They were just happened to walk in front of me at the right time. Or wrong time for them.

Do you age your deer yourself or take the haws somewhere?

[GreeneHunter]

15 hours ago, left field said:

Just add another POV to the mix. I am a novice deer hunter but a fairly accomplished fly-fishing angler and there is an old adage in fly fishing that like all old adages, rings true.

The stages of an angler:

1. I want to catch a fish
2. I want to catch a lot of fish
3. I want to catch a big fish
4. I want to catch a challenging fish
5. I just want to go fishing

Lot's of people stop or get stuck on 2 & 3 and some on 4.

Does that apply to hunters?

Count me as " I just want to go fishing " !