Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 minutes ago, Chevy said:

Since you continue to stoke the argument and toss out baited questions, I will answer. It's because the xgun is not archery equipment and hasn't even been considered in the archery season until only very recently as evidence of that among other things. 

Well that’s your opinion, and that’s fine, but your opinions don’t line up with the actual facts. It is actually considered archery equipment by definition. It is not a gun, regardless of you insinuating it is, and there has been a push to put them in archery seasons since the late 70s. Those are facts, not opinions. 

[brownclown]

My main issue is safety.  I just dont have faith in my fellow hunters. Them having the ability to use there new "super weapon" , to simply fire a deadly projectile and 100yrd distances, with limited field of view, by pulling a trigger is a danger i rather not have to chance.  People are still "accidentally shot by other bow hunters" but that time to draw and clear view of vitals delays impulsive and reckless shooting that results from pulling a trigger.

I used to think that the unfair advantage of the weapon was a mjor concern and at this point have been swayed to some extent. However i do believe that will change and is changing.

I believe it opens the door to other weapons such as the "air bow". All of you advocating seem to insist cross bows are archery equipment.  although i concur they share similar characteristics the simple fact they dont require you to draw the weapon and hold back (even with let off) exclude it from being an "archery" item. Clearly an "air bow" isnt archery yet really what is the difference between it and a crossbow? the only difference is it is being propelled by air as opposed to a string.

I do feel on your own property you should have to the right to use which ever tool you feel like. And those that advocate full inclusion are most likely to already be hunting private land. I will also agree that there is a "selfish" nature to my feelings but i am frequently required to hunt public land. Im sorry but you cant argue that the reality is people suck and the more that end up in the woods the higher the chance is they will be a slob.

 

[grampy]

6 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

But you didn't answer the question. you can still use a "real" bow (I assume you mean recurve, longbow, traditional, compound, 85% let-off, etc.), so again you don't have to buy an xbow to keep hunting with a "real" bow, so how does it affect you?

In the ML season, some people use flintlock old school guns while others use inline ML's.

Right now in archery, some people use traditional equipment while others use modern Compounds. I just don't see why people care so much. I have a compound now so it doesn't affect me, but I wouldn't be against it. They should be allowed in Westchester too. These threads always go on and on and on, but the fact is that its only a matter of time before NY is like PA, CT, NJ, OH, etc. and allows it.

Yup, it really just cooks down to a choice.  Hunters can choose to hunt from tree stands, from ground blinds, still hunt, ect. Hunters can choose to hunt with a vast variety of hunting implements, even all bows are not even close to being the same.. Hunters can choose to wear an unlimited array of clothing that fits their own style of hunting. The point is, choice! And I am not willing to choose what another hunter chooses to use, because it may be something different than what I use.  C'mon guys, just get out and hunt! Don't worry what the other hunters are doing. You will find it's much more enjoyable doing your own thing, and leaving others to do theirs.

[dbHunterNY]

10 minutes ago, Chevy said:

Since you continue to stoke the argument and toss out baited questions, I will answer. It's because the xgun is not archery equipment and hasn't even been considered in the archery season until only very recently as evidence of that among other things. 

i really have no agenda in this fight.  if you were to buy a crossbow, where would you go?  a gun shop or an archery shop?  in a big box store would you go into the gun department or the archery department?  I've posted that there's significant differences between vertical drawn bows and crossbows.  i don't even own a crossbow.  we should be real with each other though and call it what it is: archery equipment.

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 minutes ago, brownclown said:

My main issue is safety.  I just dont have faith in my fellow hunters. Them having the ability to use there new "super weapon" , to simply fire a deadly projectile and 100yrd distances, with limited field of view, by pulling a trigger is a danger i rather not have to chance.  People are still "accidentally shot by other bow hunters" but that time to draw and clear view of vitals delays impulsive and reckless shooting that results from pulling a trigger.

I used to think that the unfair advantage of the weapon was a mjor concern and at this point have been swayed to some extent. However i do believe that will change and is changing.

I believe it opens the door to other weapons such as the "air bow". All of you advocating seem to insist cross bows are archery equipment.  although i concur they share similar characteristics the simple fact they dont require you to draw the weapon and hold back (even with let off) exclude it from being an "archery" item. Clearly an "air bow" isnt archery yet really what is the difference between it and a crossbow? the only difference is it is being propelled by air as opposed to a string.

I do feel on your own property you should have to the right to use which ever tool you feel like. And those that advocate full inclusion are most likely to already be hunting private land. I will also agree that there is a "selfish" nature to my feelings but i am frequently required to hunt public land. Im sorry but you cant argue that the reality is people suck and the more that end up in the woods the higher the chance is they will be a slob.

 

Crossbows do require you to draw them.

If safety is a concern, can you provide statistics that show they are any less safe than other types of bows?

The Air Bow is an air gun that fires an arrow. It has no limbs that store energy and the arrow is not released off of a string. The name is for marketing purposes.

[brownclown]

3 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Crossbows do require you to draw them. you know what i mean

If safety is a concern, can you provide statistics that show they are any less safe than other types of bows? No i havent looked, can you provide statistics to show they are as safe?

The Air Bow is an air gun that fires an arrow. It has no limbs that store energy and the arrow is not released off of a string. The name is for marketing purposes.  exactly one small difference. one use air one uses energy from limbs. But what do you care all of you that support full inclusion should obviously support the usage as well because your main argument consists of "why do we care what anyone else uses".

 

[chas0218]

7 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Crossbows do require you to draw them. I'll bite, actually most have mechanisms that draw for you all you do is turn a crank or use pulleys because a normal person can't cock it by hold the string.

If safety is a concern, can you provide statistics that show they are any less safe than other types of bows?

The Air Bow is an air gun that fires an arrow. It has no limbs that store energy and the arrow is not released off of a string. The name is for marketing purposes.It fires a bolt used in the implement you describe to be a bow. How would this be any different other than no string. You still need to cock it and can't be fired any faster or different than a crossbow. Only real difference is that it is propelled by air hence the name "Airbow"

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 minutes ago, brownclown said:

 

Im not the one claiming they arent safe.

So no limbs, no string, thats two things. I do care, because I am talking about archery equipment, not air guns.

[WNYBuckHunter]

10 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

 

Actually it can be reloaded and fired much faster than almost any crossbow. Have you ever used a crossbow? I own one, and Ill tell you right now, I can be ready for a follow up shot 5 times faster with my compound than with a crossbow. The crank ones do not crank very fast, and every one of them I have been around are loud when you are cranking them. The main reason why you have such devices to draw them is because they need to be drawn evenly or they can be damaged and wont shoot straight if they arent.

There are one or two types of crossbows that are out there that are drawn using air power. Are they a crossbow, yes, do I think they should be allowed for hunting? Not really. I do think that the limitations of types of crossbows that you can use in NY is fine, just like there are limits put on types of compounds that can be used.

[silent death]

IAM surprised you cant use them in bow only areas like 4j ...I will say this I think crossbows may be good for the hunting community in the aspect maybe more kids will get involved in archery because they are easier to use than a regular compound bow. And kids today get discouraged quick ....I'd wrather see them using a xbow than giving up completely and goin in front of a Xbox and tv all day..but to each there own if you wanna use a crossbow go ahead I ain't voting against it nor am I voting for it...hunting is hunting period use whatever you are good with

Edited October 12, 2017 by silent death
Can't spell for shit

[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Actually it can be reloaded and fired much faster than almost any crossbow. Have you ever used a crossbow? I own one, and Ill tell you right now, I can be ready for a follow up shot 5 times faster with my compound than with a crossbow. The crank ones do not crank very fast, and every one of them I have been around are loud when you are cranking them. The main reason why you have such devices to draw them is because they need to be drawn evenly or they can be damaged and wont shoot straight if they arent.

There are one or two types of crossbows that are out there that are drawn using air power. Are they a crossbow, yes, do I think they should be allowed for hunting? Not really. I do think that the limitations of types of crossbows that you can use in NY is fine, just like there are limits put on types of compounds that can be used.

Yes I have shot several there is really no skill to using one once you zero the scope put the crosshairs on the object with the correct yardage and pull the trigger. Can you honestly say shooting it or loading it is any different than a rifle?

[tughillmcd]

This was posted on Facebook yesterday.  Almost every reply is how great a shot it is. Anyone that replied that shot should not be attempted with any archery tackle received a bunch of pushback.  People even said, hey, it had to be a good shot, he got the deer.

And I thought you anti crossbow people claim only crossbow shooters take unethical long shots. Not only did this guy do it with a compound, he has being praised for doing it.

[Trial153]

Don't forget the spare batteries for the electric powered cranks after all if your battery goes your s*** out of luck

[Adkhunter1590]

This was posted on Facebook yesterday.  Almost every reply is how great a shot it is. Anyone that replied that shot should not be attempted with any archery tackle received a bunch of pushback.  People even said, hey, it had to be a good shot, he got the deer.

And I thought you anti crossbow people claim only crossbow shooters take unethical long shots. Not only did this guy do it with a compound, he has being praised for doing it.

Except "unethical shot" doesn't have a definition set in stone. That's purely personal unless written in law what's considered "unethical". Plenty of people can shoot very well at those ranges. That guy is obviously one of them. He also obviously spent way more time practicing those types of shots. Cross bow hunter could have just bought the bow 45 mins ago and sent a bolt downrange at the first doe he saw come out. Having spent no time practicing, or learning about long range shooting.

[Trial153]

This was posted on Facebook yesterday.  Almost every reply is how great a shot it is. Anyone that replied that shot should not be attempted with any archery tackle received a bunch of pushback.  People even said, hey, it had to be a good shot, he got the deer.

And I thought you anti crossbow people claim only crossbow shooters take unethical long shots. Not only did this guy do it with a compound, he has being praised for doing it.

How much more convoluted can you get? It has to do with the mechanism of weapon not the distance. there arent many of us that would say you can use a gun during the archery season if you limit your shots to 40 yards.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

55 minutes ago, brownclown said:

 

If safety is a concern, can you provide statistics that show they are any less safe than other types of bows? No i havent looked, can you provide statistics to show they are as safe?

 

See that isn't how the game is played. YOU made the assertion that they were unsafe. Hence you should provide the proof. I will submit that with ALL the states that include them in some form or fashion for much longer periods than NY has had then, NONE have rescinded their use. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

35 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Yes I have shot several there is really no skill to using one once you zero the scope put the crosshairs on the object with the correct yardage and pull the trigger. Can you honestly say shooting it or loading it is any different than a rifle?

Ii am glad yo brought this up. If having one that shoots so much like a shotgun or rifle is a magic pill that will allow all these slobs to take deer, why is it that the majority of deer hunter that ARE using a rifle or shotgun don't get a deer. If a rifle and shotgun are so easy wouldn't it be like shopping and everyone should be able to get one? 

[brownclown]

11 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

See that isn't how the game is played. YOU made the assertion that they were unsafe. Hence you should provide the proof. I will submit that with ALL the states that include them in some form or fashion for much longer periods than NY has had then, NONE have rescinded their use. 

im sure the numbers would be very low. even gun numbers are very low. I know my feelings arent a valid argument but this whole thread has been peoples feelings. And given the choice i dont want cross bows in the woods with me partially because i feel they are less safe.

Yet no one answers my question in response to Biz " I still dont get why people advocate for full inclusion. No one is stopping you from using a "real" bow.  And for that very small percentage of people that "cant" because of age and or physical disability there is almost unanimous support for them being included. "

 

An

[chas0218]

41 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Ii am glad yo brought this up. If having one that shoots so much like a shotgun or rifle is a magic pill that will allow all these slobs to take deer, why is it that the majority of deer hunter that ARE using a rifle or shotgun don't get a deer. If a rifle and shotgun are so easy wouldn't it be like shopping and everyone should be able to get one? 

How much effort does it take to get within 100 yards of a deer lets say 75 yards even? Only deer I have spooked is within 40 yards. If you hunt and haven't shot or shot at deer with a firearm you should take another look at your tactics, I am not saying deer hunting with a firearm is a guarantee and we can all agree it isn't but there is a lot less skill needed to hunt with a firearm or crossbow than a vertical. I don't consider people that are able to use a vertical but choosing a crossbow slobs, I think they are just taking the easy way out when it comes to actually putting in the effort. I don't think those people should be awarded for it.

All of those claiming that "it's in the archery shops or sections so it's archery" really? In numerous gun shops and big box stores I have been the xbow was next to the guns or between the guns and bows. Give me a break it's called marketing and they are doing a good job of it.

Maybe I'm missing something with that picture but there is no way he recovered that deer hit where it was at 76 yards. At 76 yards the arrow would have travelled darn near straight across the deer. There is no downward angle hitting the vitals I call BS. I shot a deer at 50 yards and the downward angle was almost non-existent. Even if shot the deer going down hill still no vitals that is a backstrap shot all day long.

Edited October 12, 2017 by chas0218

[growalot]

Quote

Even if shot that deer going down hill still no vitals that is a backstrap shot all day long.

dropped in tracks through top of both shoulders. The following is from that link... Now it talks of gun hit though you can get the same results with a broad head in the same area..as these two show. they literally tipped over at the impact. also please go to link and look at diagrams.

Quote

The point of aim would be at the upper, back corner of the shoulder blade. The high shoulder shot will do several things that not only results in a quick death but, when executed properly, the deer dropping in its tracks.  First, it will shatter the shoulder blades, immediately causing physical disablement.  It will destroy the brachial plexus, area of nerves, veins and tendons, typically resulting in paralysis.  Finally, it will cause damage to the top portions of both lungs inducing massive blood loss.  This shot comes in handy when limited or no tracking is at a premium.  The downside is that it can also result in severe damage to the front shoulders, laying them to waste.

 

http://deer30outdoors.com/keys-to-understanding-shot-placement-on-a-white-tailed-deer/

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by growalot

[Culvercreek hunt club]

How much effort does it take to get within 100 yards of a deer lets say 75 yards even? Only deer I have spooked is within 40 yards. If you hunt and haven't shot or shot at deer with a firearm you should take another look at your tactics, I am not saying deer hunting with a firearm is a guarantee and we can all agree it isn't but there is a lot less skill needed to hunt with a firearm or crossbow than a vertical. I don't consider people that are able to use a vertical but choosing a crossbow slobs, I think they are just taking the easy way out when it comes to actually putting in the effort. I don't think those people should be awarded for it.

All of those claiming that "it's in the archery shops or sections so it's archery" really? In numerous gun shops and big box stores I have been the xbow was next to the guns or between the guns and bows. Give me a break it's called marketing and they are doing a good job of it.

Maybe I'm missing something with that picture but there is no way he recovered that deer hit where it was at 76 yards. At 76 yards the arrow would have travelled darn near straight across the deer. There is no downward angle hitting the vitals I call BS. I shot a deer at 50 yards and the downward angle was almost non-existent. Even if shot the deer going down hill still no vitals that is a backstrap shot all day long.

Yet the Harvest numbers don't support your claims. The majority of gun hunter do not take a deer just look at license sals vs harvest numbers. If it's Sooooooo easy why can't more do it?

[Trial153]

Yet the Harvest numbers don't support your claims. The majority of gun hunter do not take a deer just look at license sals vs harvest numbers. If it's Sooooooo easy why can't more do it?

laziness.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

laziness.

Ok. So I get this right. 2/3 of hunters in NY are lazy and can't score with a gun. But we put a crossbow in there hands and they will all of a sudden start to take deer? We must be saying they will take deer because they are going. Change the face of the archery woods. Right? That orange army will march in, slaughter everything and then stick with it year after years because it is making it so easy.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

Yes I have shot several there is really no skill to using one once you zero the scope put the crosshairs on the object with the correct yardage and pull the trigger. Can you honestly say shooting it or loading it is any different than a rifle?

Yes it’s alot different than shooting or loading a rifle. 

A rifle is loaded by opening the action, inserting a bullet and closing the action. It can be done in a second. Crossbow, you have to get out the cocking device, attach it, position the crossbow so your foot goes through the stirrup, draw it, take your foot out, insert the arrow. Takes 30 seconds. 

Shooting a rifle is aim and pull the trigger. Can be done in very tight areas. Shooting the crossbow you have to worry about the limbs and how much space is around them, then you can aim and shoot. Effective range isn’t even comparable. 

With my compound, I can nock another arrow and be back on target before I got the crossbow drawn again. 

[Trial153]

Ok. So I get this right. 2/3 of hunters in NY are lazy and can't score with a gun. But we put a crossbow in there hands and they will all of a sudden start to take deer? We must be saying they will take deer because they are going. Change the face of the archery woods. Right? That orange army will march in, slaughter everything and then stick with it year after years because it is making it so easy.

nope. not at all. they are welcome too join us and bowhunt. no-one is stopping them but themselves and their lack of desire to bowhunt. because after all of they wanted to bowhunt they wouuldnt be waiting around for crossbow inclusion.