Best survival rifle ever made

[Five Seasons]

On 1/1/2018 at 12:00 PM, Jeremy K said:

I certainly wouldn't want a .22 if my life was on the line . 

people overvalue the .22 sometimes. listen, i love my ruger 10/22 but there are bigger calibers in some good guns that dont really kick either. just because it doesn't kick and it's quite doesn't mean it's the best gun out there. I bet all of you saying .22 wouldn't pick it if you're in a videogame type situation and had a few guns including some .223 in front of you and were knowing you needed it to defend yourself and put food in your belly. sorry, but you just wouldn't. and if you can't be just as close to accurate with a smaller caliber rifle like a .223 than you deserve to be eaten. 

oh and before you say it, in what world do the bad guys and wild life let you just line up for good easy head shots? there's a reason they teach 2 in the chest. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Belo

[Rattler]

On 2nd thought, who needs a rifle?  

The PMR-30 makes for an amazing bug-out-bag pistol, and I think this is what first attracted me to it. B.O.B., kit bag, woods/survival gun, truck gun, whatever. Admittedly I don’t even have a B.O.B. put together, but I still like the idea of it and the PMR-30 would definitely live in there if I did have one

[turkeyfeathers]

19 minutes ago, Belo said:

what am i surviving? always amazed they dont use 22's on zombie shows.

I haven't shot a ton of rifles but always liked the old m1 carbine as a good platform. good damage without a lot of kick. Next up would be the AK because you just can't kill it and when I shot a full auto one it was fun as hell. 

Exactly. I emailed a nasty gram to the walking dead about no .22’s. Most popular caliber in the world too. Once they showed a Beretta bobcat in .22. That’s the only one ever. 

[stubborn1VT]

All you tough guys spend way too much time thinking about this stuff.  People aren't any tougher than squirrels IMO.  For surviving in the woods, I would use a .22.  I can see the benefits of a .223 in the case of a societal meltdown.  My bet is that more ammo would be a bigger benefit than more firepower.

[Five Seasons]

18 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

All you tough guys spend way too much time thinking about this stuff.  People aren't any tougher than squirrels IMO.  For surviving in the woods, I would use a .22.  I can see the benefits of a .223 in the case of a societal meltdown.  My bet is that more ammo would be a bigger benefit than more firepower.

idk there's a good debate on .380's. I pocket carry my lcp probably more than any gun and I feel confident with its accuracy because I know statistically I will be close to my attacker. 

However, there is a very real thing called stopping power. SO, even if my hornady critical defense makes it through your thick winter leather coat, it still needs to provide enough KE to really put you down. Not kill you a few hours later in a hospital room. There are trade offs to every selection here, but some big bad dude on meth? There's a reason America loves the 12 gauge for home defense. Putting him down is the goal, not killing him but leaving enough energy for him to stab me a few times before he dies. 

[stubborn1VT]

Keep daydreaming about the apacolypse Belo.  I'm pretty sure that I learned about knockdown in the military as an infantryman and an MP.  I'm amazed what people think they have the knowledge to lecture on.  People are terrifically fragile.  .22 bullets are accurate, light, and plentiful.  A .380?  Really?  I thought you were a proponent of knockdown?  I guess you have the end of the world all figured out.  My plan would be to be far away from people.  The question was what rifle for survival.  10/22 or Nylon 66 for me.

[airedale]

I like a combination gun myself, a Savage 24 is tough to beat.

[Hunter007]

21 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

Keep daydreaming about the apacolypse Belo.  I'm pretty sure that I learned about knockdown in the military as an infantryman and an MP.  I'm amazed what people think they have the knowledge to lecture on.  People are terrifically fragile.  .22 bullets are accurate, light, and plentiful.  A .380?  Really?  I thought you were a proponent of knockdown?  I guess you have the end of the world all figured out.  My plan would be to be far away from people.  The question was what rifle for survival.  10/22 or Nylon 66 for me.

I think if you are using the high velocity rounds in your Ruger 22lr  or or some other carbine in say  45   9 mm  the benefit of being able to carry more rounds probably out weights  the usefulness  of  more  powerful ammo for the most part especially if you know your going be  away from being able to get more ammo for a long time . 

Sure if you know your going to be able to get more ammo easily hard to beat something like a  .223 or 7.62×39  platform . But militarys they have systems in place  to resupply troops .

Different situation if you're on your own with no structure like  armies have in place to resupply.

May be more practical to have  lighter ammo like 22 or more compact ammo like  9 or 45 then a rifle cartridge.

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Storm914

[Pygmy]

6 minutes ago, airedale said:

I like a combination gun myself, a Savage 24 is tough to beat.

Al. you are breaking my heart.....I had a nice vintage 24 in my possession for a couple of years , I did not own it, but had lots fun shooting rabbits, squirrels and even a few grouse ( on the wing, not off the limb) with it....

It eventually went back to my ex bro-in law, who gave it to his son, who sold it in a yard sale for $150  and was tickled to get that much money for " that old gun"......<<<SIGH>>>...

[Robhuntandfish]

When I make my over under 12 gauge/50 Beowulf with a lightsaber bayonet and a .22 derringer hidden in the stock......then we will have a winner!  

[Buckmaster7600]

idk there's a good debate on .380's. I pocket carry my lcp probably more than any gun and I feel confident with its accuracy because I know statistically I will be close to my attacker. 
However, there is a very real thing called stopping power. SO, even if my hornady critical defense makes it through your thick winter leather coat, it still needs to provide enough KE to really put you down. Not kill you a few hours later in a hospital room. There are trade offs to every selection here, but some big bad dude on meth? There's a reason America loves the 12 gauge for home defense. Putting him down is the goal, not killing him but leaving enough energy for him to stab me a few times before he dies. 

There is no such things as "stopping power," it is a sales pitch at best. There is instant incapacitation which is only reliably done by a direct hit to central nervous system and projectile makes no difference.

A hit to central nervous system with a 22short is equally as effective as a strike to CNS from a 416rigby. A hit to center mass is a crapshoot on how the "target" will react. Some people drop from a single chest shot with a 22LR and some individuals are still on their feet after taking 15 shots from a 40S&W.


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[Hunter007]

3 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

There is no such things as "stopping power," it is a sales pitch at best. There is instant incapacitation which is only reliably done by a direct hit to central nervous system and projectile makes no difference.

A hit to central nervous system with a 22short is equally as effective as a strike to CNS from a 416rigby. A hit to center mass is a crapshoot on how the "target" will react. Some people drop from a single chest shot with a 22LR and some individuals are still on their feet after taking 15 shots from a 40S&W.


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Yep i have even read that in Africa poachers have been know to kill  cape Buffalo and even elephants with a well placed   headshot to the weak spot of its  skull . I don't know  if those storys  are true or not could be myth but from 25 yards  some one who knows the weak spots of those animals probably could kill them with high velocity 22LR ammo.

I would not want to be the one to  try  that experiment lol  

 

 

 

[Nomad]

I’ve actually been to I’d guess close to 150 if not more shootings, the  ‘90s were quite fun in the hood . I’d say shot placement is key, I’ve seen many guys more worried about their jacket then the holes in them .

Untill it’s we know if this rifle is  for surviving a few nights in the woods or zombies it’s pretty much pointless .

My front closet gun is a short barreled Benelli, 5, OO in it 3 more and two slugs   

In a card on the stock . I’m sure as heck not going to carry it a field with more then 100 rounds at best .

Where the . 22 shines is its overall utility , cheap easy for anyone to,shoot and ammo is cheap and easy to tote in bulk . Joe Sixpack can buy store and carry thousands of rounds .

You’re only out gunned if you miss......

 Belo I’d ditch the 380 HP, Ruger APX and many similar give penetration that HP 380 lack with the wound  channels HP380 should produce. 

[Hunter007]

23 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I’ve actually been to I’d guess close to 150 if not more shootings, the  ‘90s were quite fun in the hood . I’d say shot placement is key, I’ve seen many guys more worried about their jacket then the holes in them .

Untill it’s we know if this rifle is  for surviving a few nights in the woods or zombies it’s pretty much pointless .

My front closet gun is a short barreled Benelli, 5, OO in it 3 more and two slugs   

In a card on the stock . I’m sure as heck not going to carry it a field with more then 100 rounds at best .

Where the . 22 shines is its overall utility , cheap easy for anyone to,shoot and ammo is cheap and easy to tote in bulk . Joe Sixpack can buy store and carry thousands of rounds .

You’re only out gunned if you miss......

 Belo I’d ditch the 380 HP, Ruger APX and many similar give penetration that HP 380 lack with the wound  channels HP380 should produce. 

Do you really think the criminals in  hood know  the difference between various 22lr ammo or are picky about what they use  .  The guy worrying about holes in his jacket are getting shot with subsonic ammo probably .:)

 

[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, stubborn1VT said:

Keep daydreaming about the apacolypse Belo.  I'm pretty sure that I learned about knockdown in the military as an infantryman and an MP.  I'm amazed what people think they have the knowledge to lecture on.  People are terrifically fragile.  .22 bullets are accurate, light, and plentiful.  A .380?  Really?  I thought you were a proponent of knockdown?  I guess you have the end of the world all figured out.  My plan would be to be far away from people.  The question was what rifle for survival.  10/22 or Nylon 66 for me.

I'm not sure you really refuted any of my statements other than getting really triggered about a healthy debate, certainly no lecture. 

My statement wasn't "would you get as far away as possible". It was, what would you choose if you knew there was some bad shit coming your way, and if you don't want to go all apocalypse, lets pretend there's a riot outside your home (not unheard of these days). You're telling me you really grab your .22?

As an infantryman and MP, did you carry .22's? If not, why? 

Did they teach you about meth as an MP?

[Five Seasons]

13 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

There is no such things as "stopping power," it is a sales pitch at best. There is instant incapacitation which is only reliably done by a direct hit to central nervous system and projectile makes no difference.

A hit to central nervous system with a 22short is equally as effective as a strike to CNS from a 416rigby. A hit to center mass is a crapshoot on how the "target" will react. Some people drop from a single chest shot with a 22LR and some individuals are still on their feet after taking 15 shots from a 40S&W.


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13 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Yep i have even read that in Africa poachers have been know to kill  cape Buffalo and even elephants with a well placed   headshot to the weak spot of its  skull . I don't know  if those storys  are true or not could be myth but from 25 yards  some one who knows the weak spots of those animals probably could kill them with high velocity 22LR ammo.

I would not want to be the one to  try  that experiment lol  

 

 

 

you're both talking about well placed shots. Please see my previous post about how easy these well placed shots are under a defense situation and if not, something that every deer hunter knows is never a certainty. So why can't i deer hunt with a .22 if it's so magical? Why don't armies and leo's pack this wonder cartridge? Why does just about everybody on this board when asked about home defense point to a short barreled shotgun? 

and statistically do you think more people drop from a .22 or more keep on trucking after 15 shots from a .40? (a story ive never heard of btw).

[Five Seasons]

13 hours ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

 

Where the . 22 shines is its overall utility , cheap easy for anyone to,shoot and ammo is cheap and easy to tote in bulk . Joe Sixpack can buy store and carry thousands of rounds .

 

this is why i picked the m1 carbine.

.30 isn't that much bigger where I lose a ton of ammo storage. I'd also pick a short stocked rifle that shot 9mm over the 22 before i picked the 22

 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

this is why i picked the m1 carbine.

.30 isn't that much bigger where I lose a ton of ammo storage. I'd also pick a short stocked rifle that shot 9mm over the 22 before i picked the 22

 

I like the idea of a 9mm carbine to  the M1 carbine is also a really good choice.

 

[Hunter007]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

 

you're both talking about well placed shots. Please see my previous post about how easy these well placed shots are under a defense situation and if not, something that every deer hunter knows is never a certainty. So why can't i deer hunt with a .22 if it's so magical? Why don't armies and leo's pack this wonder cartridge? Why does just about everybody on this board when asked about home defense point to a short barreled shotgun? 

and statistically do you think more people drop from a .22 or more keep on trucking after 15 shots from a .40? (a story ive never heard of btw).

Depending on you experience most people  

Because of no real felt kick someone with a 22 lr in  theory probably shoot  off a dozen  well placed shot faster on target then you could with a bigger cal that kicks you around when you shoot it .  Getting hit with 2 or 3 4 5  well placed 22 rounds probable worse then getting hit with one  bad place shot from a bigger gun  it equals bad news  for who ever gets hit by them both ..

With a 22 You can easily shoot  off 3 or more well placed shots faster then and more accurately then anything else. .  

Moral of the story is you don't want to  get shot by anything lol  and nobody looks at the cal you got when you  point a gun at them or are shooting   at them .

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Storm914

[Five Seasons]

there's little kick on a good .223 AR platform too. And an AK isn't all that bad either. 

this is interesting

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=159381

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Belo

[stubborn1VT]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

I'm not sure you really refuted any of my statements other than getting really triggered about a healthy debate, certainly no lecture. 

My statement wasn't "would you get as far away as possible". It was, what would you choose if you knew there was some bad shit coming your way, and if you don't want to go all apocalypse, lets pretend there's a riot outside your home (not unheard of these days). You're telling me you really grab your .22?

As an infantryman and MP, did you carry .22's? If not, why? 

Did they teach you about meth as an MP?

Dear Belo, 

I just don't care to convince you.  You are way more invested in this imaginary, unspecified survival situation than I am.  The OP asked, and I answered.  I wasn't trying to convince anyone to carry a .22.  I don't own a .223, so I wouldn't be carrying one. Meth? Really? That's what you're worried about?  Let's pretend... Nah.  Carry on imaginary soldier.

[Five Seasons]

35 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

Dear Belo, 

I just don't care to convince you.  You are way more invested in this imaginary, unspecified survival situation than I am.  The OP asked, and I answered.  I wasn't trying to convince anyone to carry a .22.  I don't own a .223, so I wouldn't be carrying one. Meth? Really? That's what you're worried about?  Let's pretend... Nah.  Carry on imaginary soldier.

i'm sure why it hit such a nerve. the whole thing is clearly pretend... that's the fun of it.

before you leave for good can you please just answer my question though. Why does leo and military not carry .22? 

[stubborn1VT]

9 minutes ago, Belo said:

i'm sure why it hit such a nerve. the whole thing is clearly pretend... that's the fun of it.

before you leave for good can you please just answer my question though. Why does leo and military not carry .22? 

Nope.

[Five Seasons]

12 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

Nope.

well shucks. you've won me over

[dbHunterNY]

another vote here for the 22LR and 20ga combo.  My cousin had the Savage 22lr/410ga, but I feel like 410ga slug doesn't have enough for certain situations.