Need some help

[damore81]

I am interested in buying a piece of land maybe around 15-30 acres for hunting/recreation. I want to make a small camp setup with either a trailer or small cabin. For now I want to keep it simple and low cost. Then maybe when I retire I will put a nice home. What I want to know is if I put a trailer or small rough cabin,  with or without a well/septic and electric will that increase the property taxes? What makes the property taxes increase from having a vacant land? Basically I want to avoid the jump of paying the school taxes which I believe you dont pay on vacant land. Any help is appreciated.

[moog5050]

16 minutes ago, damore81 said:

I am interested in buying a piece of land maybe around 15-30 acres for hunting/recreation. I want to make a small camp setup with either a trailer or small cabin. For now I want to keep it simple and low cost. Then maybe when I retire I will put a nice home. What I want to know is if I put a trailer or small rough cabin,  with or without a well/septic and electric will that increase the property taxes? What makes the property taxes increase from having a vacant land? Basically I want to avoid the jump of paying the school taxes which I believe you dont pay on vacant land. Any help is appreciated.

I pay school taxes on my vacant land.  I would assume any permanent structure could be considered in reassessing the value of the land for tax purposes.

[damore81]

6 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I pay school taxes on my vacant land.  I would assume any permanent structure could be considered in reassessing the value of the land for tax purposes.

Correction, I believe you pay a much smaller percentage of school taxes as opposed to if you have a permanent structure or home. What constitutes a permanent structure though? If I put a rough cabin or trailer on blocks, no foundation or slab, is that considered a permanent structure and would that raise my taxes? For example my buddy has two properties in schoharie county. One is vacant land and he pays around $700/yr for 70 acres. The other property is two miles away and  is 20 acres with a house and he pays $6000/yr. 

[grampy]

"ANY" improvements, ie structures, well, septic, even an access road, will increase the taxes on your land in NYS.

[damore81]

8 minutes ago, grampy said:

"ANY" improvements, ie structures, well, septic, even an access road, will increase the taxes on your land in NYS.

Understood. Thank you. But is there a difference of whether I put a trailer or rough cabin on blocks compared to putting up a permanent home or would it be the same thing? Reason I ask is because then instead of looking for a vacant land I might look for one with a small home on it with the utilities already put in. I figured if the taxes are signifcantly lower then I would get a vacant land and put a trailer on it for the time being to save some costs. 

[steve863]

Pretty soon they will tax us for breathing the air in NYS.   .25 cents per gulp.  NYS will find ways to tax you more, you can rest assured of that.  

[Robhuntandfish]

Only way you will avoid taxes going up would be to use a registered camper, thus not a permanent structure.  Anything else you'll need a build permit etc and they got ya. 

[moog5050]

33 minutes ago, damore81 said:

Correction, I believe you pay a much smaller percentage of school taxes as opposed to if you have a permanent structure or home. What constitutes a permanent structure though? If I put a rough cabin or trailer on blocks, no foundation or slab, is that considered a permanent structure and would that raise my taxes? For example my buddy has two properties in schoharie county. One is vacant land and he pays around $700/yr for 70 acres. The other property is two miles away and  is 20 acres with a house and he pays $6000/yr. 

I am not sure you a lower percentage of school taxes without a structure, its just assessed for less so you pay less.  I could be wrong as I don't pay much attention since my taxes are so low on that vacant land.

[damore81]

4 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

Only way you will avoid taxes going up would be to use a registered camper, thus not a permanent structure.  Anything else you'll need a build permit etc and they got ya. 

Interesting. So the trailer I am thinking of is one of those 13ft travel trailers that you tow. I am assuming I would have to register that? The cabin I was thinking of is one of the small prefabs from the amish that can go up on blocks. Would I need a building permit for that?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, damore81 said:

Interesting. So the trailer I am thinking of is one of those 13ft travel trailers that you tow. I am assuming I would have to register that? The cabin I was thinking of is one of the small prefabs from the amish that can go up on blocks. Would I need a building permit for that?

Depends on the area. I have seen "sheds" that we not on a permanent structure go both ways. It's all speculation until you call the governing authorities. 

[damore81]

5 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I am not sure you a lower percentage of school taxes without a structure, its just assessed for less so you pay less.  I could be wrong as I don't pay much attention since my taxes are so low on that vacant land.

From what I heard is that vacant land is not taxed the same as land with a house. Since there is no residence then you are not responsible to pay the same taxes. I may be wrong and I want to know for sure before I make any purchases. What local official could I contact for accurate information?

 

[moog5050]

8 minutes ago, damore81 said:

From what I heard is that vacant land is not taxed the same as land with a house. Since there is no residence then you are not responsible to pay the same taxes. I may be wrong and I want to know for sure before I make any purchases. What local official could I contact for accurate information?

 

Real property tax dept for whatever jurisdiction the property you are looking at is located.

[damore81]

9 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Real property tax dept for whatever jurisdiction the property you are looking at is located.

Got it. Thanks. I was asking the realtors but I dont trust them since they are just interested in selling the property. 

[Robhuntandfish]

17 minutes ago, damore81 said:

Interesting. So the trailer I am thinking of is one of those 13ft travel trailers that you tow. I am assuming I would have to register that? The cabin I was thinking of is one of the small prefabs from the amish that can go up on blocks. Would I need a building permit for that?

Most townships require a permit for a shed.  And they also make you anchor it so that in a storm etc it doesn't go into road or into someone.  But yes would ask tax office/assessor office.  

A tow behind camper should be fine as long as it is registered and the wheels are not taken off. 

[damore81]

10 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

Most townships require a permit for a shed.  And they also make you anchor it so that in a storm etc it doesn't go into road or into someone.  But yes would ask tax office/assessor office.  

A tow behind camper should be fine as long as it is registered and the wheels are not taken off. 

I think that will be my safest option. Thanks for the info.

[escpen]

You will also want to check with local code enforcement officers regarding what structures require building permits.  In the area where I own vacant land, any structure above 144 square feet requires a building permit, after which the property assessment is likely to go up commensurate with the amount specified on the permit.

Note that I pay the same tax rate on my vacant property as my father pays on the property that he lives on in the same area.  However, my assessment is much lower because it is just vacant land.  I suspect this is standard practice across most of upstate NY, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

53 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

Most townships require a permit for a shed.  And they also make you anchor it so that in a storm etc it doesn't go into road or into someone.  But yes would ask tax office/assessor office.  

A tow behind camper should be fine as long as it is registered and the wheels are not taken off. 

Its based of square feet my area you can build a shed as long as its 100 square feet or less without a permit in any configuration 10’x10’

8’x12’ etc as soon as you go bigger need a permit..

[Steuben Jerry]

1 hour ago, Robhuntandfish said:

Only way you will avoid taxes going up would be to use a registered camper, thus not a permanent structure.  Anything else you'll need a build permit etc and they got ya. 

This right here^

I did exactly that back in the 90's. 19 ft camping trailer with a valid registration. On blocks to keep the suspension still, but otherwise ready to hitch up and tow. Imagine my surprise when I got a 400% increase in my then cheap tax bill. I went to the town hall and explained the registered trailer. They sent someone up to check it out, and within 2 weeks I got a corrected tax bill at the old assessment.

They had changed my property classification from forest to seasonal residence too. Like I said, they made good and changed it right back though.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Steuben Jerry

[damore81]

10 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

This right here^

I did exactly that back in the 90's. 19 ft camping trailer with a valid registration. On blocks to keep the suspension still, but otherwise ready to hitch up and tow. Imagine my surprise when I got a 400% increase in my then cheap tax bill. I went to the town hall and explained the registered trailer. They sent someone up to check it out, and within 2 weeks I got a corrected tax bill at the old assessment.

They had changed my property classification from forest to seasonal residence too. Like I said, they made good and changed it right back though.

Excellent information. Good to know. Thats pretty much what I thought. Question is did you have utilities hooked up to your trailer such as septic/water and electric? 

[damore81]

29 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

Its based of square feet my area you can build a shed as long as its 100 square feet or less without a permit in any configuration 10’x10’

8’x12’ etc as soon as you go bigger need a permit..

Good to know. I guess I will have a bunch of 10x10 sheds around my property. lol 

[grampy]

15 minutes ago, damore81 said:

Excellent information. Good to know. Thats pretty much what I thought. Question is did you have utilities hooked up to your trailer such as septic/water and electric? 

If you have power run to the property. If you have a well drilled. If you have a septic put in. You will be taxed accordingly. As all these will require a permit.  Put your camping trailer in, build a small outhouse. Use a generator, and haul in your water.  Kind of a pain, but could be done. And it's sort of like living in the past, but with the advantage of a modern camper!  

[damore81]

7 minutes ago, grampy said:

If you have power run to the property. If you have a well drilled. If you have a septic put in. You will be taxed accordingly. As all these will require a permit.  Put your camping trailer in, build a small outhouse. Use a generator, and haul in your water.  Kind of a pain, but could be done. And it's sort of like living in the past, but with the advantage of a modern camper!  

Got it. Thanks for the tip. 

[Steuben Jerry]

32 minutes ago, damore81 said:

Excellent information. Good to know. Thats pretty much what I thought. Question is did you have utilities hooked up to your trailer such as septic/water and electric? 

Grampy's response has it exactly right. All of those things are considered improvements and they may change your classification (doesn't always make a difference in rate), but will increase your assessment (multiplier of rate).

We put an outhouse sized shed up to run the generator, and used the holding tank on the trailer for waste. Had to empty that into a portable tank and then took over to the nearby campground dumping station. Holy crap, I don't miss that part!

[Dinsdale]

County should have a 'Sanitary Code' and you can see if an outhouse is even legal; some won't allow that.

Some can also be linked to other codes like many downstate....Ulster/Putnam/Sullivan/etc linked to NYC DEP for watershed codes.

Code enforcement uses google earth just like we can; something changes and expect a visit.

[Moho81]

Lots of good info in here already. Call the assessors office and have a chat with them. 99% are out to help you not screw you over and they will be the best starting point. Things vary so much from town to town it’s hard to say exactly what they will allow.

Same for the building department regarding permits. They are public servants and 99% are out to help you and get you pointed in the right direction.


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