Hunting Mature Deer

[NFA-ADK]

Hunting for over 20 years, I have never shot at a doe or a yearling anything; although I have drawn my bow on many a mature doe and 3-4 pointers for pratice.  This is just my way of hunting...  I am not after the largest antlers or the meat.  I hunt for the joy of hunting and the closeness it brings me to nature and the good lord.  Ever since reading about the Great ADK and the vast woods and mature deer it held I have had a passion for hunting "mature deer".  Perhaps reading Charlie Alsheimer’s  books about hunting has influenced me the most, he is amazing… I always felt leaving the immature deer and doe would give me a better chance at seeing a mature buck and over the years it has paid off.  Am I a successful hunter, by most standards no?  I do not harvest deer every year even though I think I could.  Hunting for me is a challenge and to shoot a doe or a yearling is just not that challenging for ME.  Please do not get me wrong, I have no objection to anyone taking a doe or a button buck to fill your freezer or due to limited hunting time.  Just saying what I do and why.  Hunt long, Hunt hard and Hunt Safe!!!

NFA GETSOME

[Geno C]

actually laying off the does DOES NOT put you in any better chance of seeing mature bucks. laying off the smaller bucks and thinning out the doe herd is more ideal for seeing a shooter and just better off for the overall herd. If there are tomany does a buck doesnt have to go far in search of one and those mature bucks might be nocturnal...

[fasteddie]

You might want to re-read Charlie's books . He discusses QDM and shooting does . Some of the doe are more of a challenge than the bucks especially during Rut when the bucks have pretty much one thing on their mind .

[Localqdm]

Nice buck

[Localqdm]

Looks pretty heavy too!  Did you weigh or score him?

[Gthphtm]

I have one that shows up every year just before the rut,have seen him grow from a button buck,spike,4 to 6 to an eight always in the same spot every year then he dissapears for another year.last year he was a 10 pointer,if he made it for another year more power to him.Just the satisfaction to see that he is smart enough to elude the other hunters gives me joy.I have had many 20 yard shots at him with both bow and gun.Just want st see if he makes it another year.And increase the depleating heard.

[nyantler]

I also don't think it is much of a challenge shooting a doe, but that is ok by me... it's a great way to gaurantee meat in the freezer each year... I try to make it a bit more of a challenge by only taking a doe during the late muzzleloader and by using either my Hawkin percussion or flintlock with patch and round ball... makes it more fun for me. I am fortunate to hunt in good areas and can take my time picking out a good size doe... If I get 2 tags and fill both I always donate the second one to the venison drive.

[NFA-ADK]

Geno and FastEddie I agree with you both.  But this is not about QDM.

Contrary to your believe that passing doe's will not give me a better chance at shooting a mature buck is your opinion and I respect that.  I agree with you somewhat in high populations of deer like I see in Roscoe: But I hunt areas with less than 1 deer per square mile as my main area.  I just feel killing a doe in this area is not good for the herd, just my opinion...  I think some areas require more population control than others and that will determine what is most appropriate. 

I am not doing this to improve the herd or in the hope of one of these bucks getting mature or the possibility of a doe producing more deer for my area.  But I hope it's a possibility... QDM is impossible for me as I hunt mostly public land and would get arrested for setting up food plots, clearing land etc. LOL. 

I do this because I hunt mature bucks; shooting a doe or a button buck or spike is just, well too easy for me.  (And by no means do I consider myself an "expert hunter" just experienced.)  I am up for the challenge of getting a mature buck that I can be proud of, not because he is big or mature but what I have to go through to get a mature deer is hard WORK... This requires me to spend more time learning about my prey and the area he is in and takes much more discipline and preparation to ascertain a skill set required to get mature animals.  I do not get to hunt that much, about 7-17 days is usually my max for the season with one full week spent in the ADK.  Because I do not get to scout the area I hunt, I rely on books and the knowledge of other experts to help me evaluate the woods quickly and get onto the game.  I credit books with helping me get into mature deer hunting and get the most out of the short time I have in the woods.  I have passed on a doe and later had a mature buck that followed her, so in so far as not seeing mature deer by letting a doe go, I do not agree with you entirely but again this is just my opinion.  Will thinning out the does be good for a herd? Yes if the herd is large and the doe/buck population is out of balance.  But I hunt in the ADK and the herds I see are small(Usually I am the only one to even see a deer the entire week I go hunting with 8 guys.) and taking a doe is just not needed in these areas of less than 1 deer per square mile...  Again this is just my opinion and this is why I go for mature deer, it is just more rewarding for ME and presents the best challenge.  I will say this:  ANY deer is nice as long as you earn it!  I only still hunt even with a bow, unless the limited area dictates it(private land/many hunters).  I think what I am really saying is I hunt for the joy of hunting and the challenge that a mature deer presents, pitting my skills as a hunter vs the seasoned mature buck in his natural environment with no fences to worry about...  My hunting partner of over 20 years has never even taken a shot, yet 2 years ago he could have almost touched a 4 pointer walking past him on a steep ridge ledge, he has the same mentality as I.  Perhaps Mr. Alsheimer, the Benoit brothers, and many, many other high adventure North Woods Hunters have corrupted my mind with thier books of wisdom about hunting "Mature Deer"  and "Advanced Deer Hunting" but I would not have it any other way. 

Do we need to shoot doe, yes and if I ever own private land I would try to keep population controlled but control is regional and sometimes very local but vital to QDM. 

Thanks for the complement LocalQDM and No I have not scored him yet, I estimate about 130 ish on the low side…  Know a scorer around Long Island? 

[landtracdeerhunter]

I believe he is saying how he defines hunting as in his own person.  I think that is great.  He has a real understanding of what he wants to get out of it for his own personal satisfaction. Not just to harvest a deer.  It took me many years of hunting before I harvested my first deer.  I  let many a nice deer walk, because I wasn't ready to harvest one.  It's different for everyone.  Their is no rule book to go by. He can stand tall for posting his beliefs.

[nyantler]

I think that those of us that hunt the adirondacks know that it is a different animal and deer management there would not be the same as most places in NY... for most of the ADK finding browse during the winter months is a huge problem for deer.. buck age structure is better because of the ADK vastness and lower deer densities... you could sit in a treestand in the middle of the ADK for the rest of your life and never see a buck... it's a different kind of hunting and a different world of hunting... there is less concern about age structure and doe populations and more concern over quality food source...

[fasteddie]

I passed on a spike and a 5 point last bow season and ate my buck tag but it didn't bother me in the least . Both of them were within 10 yards of my stand so I felt good that they came that close . Had a couple of doe fawns come within range also and passed on them . Never took a shot last bow season but enjoyed my time in the woods .

[Lawdwaz]

8 guys for 7 days, and you are the only one to see a deer?  56 man days and see 1 (ONE) deer? 

I did that once, up in the Moose River plains.  Never again, thank you.

Years ago I remember someone saying that 90% of the deer were taken by 10% hunters.  Probably true.

[Localqdm]

NFA, I was thinking the same thing.  In the ADK where there are very few deer, I prob would shoot a young buck before I took a doe (if I needed the meat), and I am all about qdm.  Diff places require diff approaches.  Nice mass on that buck, looks like a real hog.

Currious Nfa and nyantler, those of you who still hunt with a bow, do you ever worry about that broadhead sticking out there.  I won't walk/stalk with an arrow knocked.  Just not worth the risk to me, especially if I was on the side of a mountain in the middle of nowhere.  not preaching, just currious on your approach.

[Geno C]

NFA-ADK, i respect that answer... i guess you can say i am unfamiliar with hunting ADK. i wasnt expecting you take my advice in any way. you have to do what works for you and what you enjoy, ultimately thats what matters.

[NFA-ADK]

Lawdwaz Moose River is the area I hunt...  I understand why you do not go back, the  woods are vast and the deer very few, but when you get one it has the potential of being a mature animal.  Hunting in the Catskills or western NY is a world apart from Moose River and many places in the ADK.  My other spot I love is the cold river at the end of long lake another true wilderness.  Again a hard place to get to and to hunt, but the rewards are worth it. 

LocalQDM When I still hunt with the bow I usually have a arrow on the bow and yes it can be a pain.  If I am in a hard terain area or climing, I put the arrow away.  But for the most part when I hunt I have the arrow ready.  When you least expect it, thats when they show up... 

Out of the 8 guys that hunt with us about 3 others are serious hunters and the rest well lets just say not everyone hunts as hard as me.  I try to get up at 3:30 am to get into the woods in the dark and usually get out in the dark.  I don't recommend this, but thats part of what I do.

[Localqdm]

Do they make something that you can cover the broadhead w/and pull off quick? 

[Doewhacker]

localqdm, We still hunt quite a bit too, its not that hard or unsafe to do. Just have to be carefull is all, you go slow and watch your footing and every thing is ok. My brother got a nice 9 last year with the bow still hunting, it can be very effective.    I dont know if there are many still hunting bowhunters left these days. Hell you say you still hunt and people look at you funny.

[nyantler]

localqdm, We still hunt quite a bit too, its not that hard or unsafe to do. Just have to be carefull is all, you go slow and watch your footing and every thing is ok. My brother got a nice 9 last year with the bow still hunting, it can be very effective.    I dont know if there are many still hunting bowhunters left these days. Hell you say you still hunt and people look at you funny.

That is the only way I bowhunt... I have been able to sneak up with my recurve on dozens of smaller bucks and have had some as close as 5-10 yards, but it is extemely tough for getting 20 yards and in on a big buck... I have gotten to within 30-40 yards many times and 25 yards once in 11 years... and I am still looking forward to killing my first buck with the recurve.

[Doewhacker]

localqdm, We still hunt quite a bit too, its not that hard or unsafe to do. Just have to be carefull is all, you go slow and watch your footing and every thing is ok. My brother got a nice 9 last year with the bow still hunting, it can be very effective.    I dont know if there are many still hunting bowhunters left these days. Hell you say you still hunt and people look at you funny.

That is the only way I bowhunt... I have been able to sneak up with my recurve on dozens of smaller bucks and have had some as close as 5-10 yards, but it is extemely tough for getting 20 yards and in on a big buck... I have gotten to within 30-40 yards many times and 25 yards once in 11 years... and I am still looking forward to killing my first buck with the recurve.

Thats funny cause his was 30 yards, I had one come in to 20 once but couldn't get a shot because of a tree and on account of him running in to a grunt call so fast. I am still looking forward to getting a shot at nice one with my bow.

[Localqdm]

Ny, wouldn't you rather take those bucks at 30 yds w/a compound than not have a shot w/ a recurve?

[Lawdwaz]

Ny, wouldn't you rather take those bucks at 30 yds w/a compound than not have a shot w/ a recurve?

You've never shot a recurve, have you?

[Localqdm]

I've made some trad bows--nothing fancy, in fact was planning on going all traditional about 5 yrs ago as I was pretty sick of messing w/gadgets that can and do break or get out of adjustment--often at the wrong time.  I think I would really enjoy still hunting w/a recurve (not ready to wave that broadhead around yet though) but with 4 kids just haven't had the time to pick up a longbow or recurve and do it justice.  So i'm kinda dependent on my compound.  Add to that the increased range and I guess I'm stuck on it.

I'll agree w/ya that there is something a little sweeter about shooting those trad bows.

[Geno C]

i still dont get the whole hype on recurves lol... i just dont...

[steve863]

i still dont get the whole hype on recurves lol... i just dont...

I'm not much of any kind of bowhunter, but I would agree.  I would much prefer a more accurate and effective and easier to shoot bow if I must use one, and that without a doubt is a compound.  I do however think that compound bows have grown to where there are just way too many bells and whistles attached to them.  Just to many parts, gadgets, gear, junk, etc. for my liking involved with modern day compounds.  That is why I will hang on to my fairly simple 1990 compound bow until it falls completely apart or I die.  Whichever comes first.  LOL

[Geno C]

i still dont get the whole hype on recurves lol... i just dont...

I'm not much of any kind of bowhunter, but I would agree.  I would much prefer a more accurate and effective and easier to shoot bow if I must use one, and that without a doubt is a compound.  I do however think that compound bows have grown to where there are just way too many bells and whistles attached to them.  Just to many parts, gadgets, gear, junk, etc. for my liking involved with modern day compounds.  That is why I will hang on to my fairly simple 1990 compound bow until it falls completely apart or I die.  Whichever comes first.  LOL

yeah me too Steve. It seems over the years Recurves have slowly become more popular. Im not bashing anyone who still uses them or wishes to get into using them BUT i just seems silly to me. Ive watched shows when they use recurves and it makes me lough. One guy was ranting and raving about his recurve, he gets a 15 yard shot on a deer perfectly broadside, gut shot the dang thing and when i say he got NO penetration, that would be an understatement.  he lost that deer... i admit tho these new compounds are somewhat futuristic compared to modern day compounds but they are great Steve lol. i have an 2005 Mathews switch back XT ill stick too. Its dead acurate and has great penetration, i also feel very confident with it which is important. you have to feel comfortable with what you shoot no matter what it is...