Notre dame on fire !!

[Nomad]

15 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Listen. I know the French are afraid to fight wars, but I didn’t know they were afraid to fight fires.

Actually , I found it odd that they had so few “ master streams “ in operation , we had more up when the Dollar store on North Clinton burned down . Going only off the news videos I saw of ND fire .

Their issue was the access to and the  height and shear size of the buildings , the aerial ladders they had up, the streams didn’t reach anywhere near where they needed to go and were  largely ineffective. I don’t know what the highest aerial ladders one can buy are , we use 110’ there may not be tall enough ones available for purchase idk ,either way theirs   didn’t do much .

there was a 20 minute delay in calling the FD as well , an alarm ,” alert “ as they call it came in at 18:20, it was a local alarm, in other words it’s not sent to FD only goes off “ locally “, staff investigated it found nothing, 20 minutes later a second alarm this time they called FD.

Thats a piss poor system for such a building .

Thats perhaps their largest target hazard, I’d be interested in seeing their preplan , I know parts of it were put in place as far as removing artifacts.

A fire like that is going to have water supply issues as well, no matter how many pieces of equipment , if they’re all working off the same main,you may have that issue . That’s part of your preplan , size of mains, on all sides as well as next streets over, relay pumping and on and on .

Oh I do hate their metallic helmets , they wore them when they came for the 911 memorial,in NYC  ,Oct, ‘02 as well , the only more annoying guys were the blonde , tan, surfer ,FF from Cali . I however was loved by everyone there ....

Anytime you re fighting a fire from outside like that ,you’ve written the building off ,it’s considered by us “ a large dumpster “ fire .

Edited April 16, 2019 by Stay at home Nomad

[left field]

1 hour ago, Storm914 said:

In terms of human life loss nothing comes close to 911 . But If you take out the lives lost this was worse than 911 in terms of historical value .

Almost 900 years of history lost .

So far no attack or accident has killed  more people then 911  Hopefully  something that bad  never happens again .

You may want to go back to the history books if you think no attack has killed more people.

They are not comparable when you consider intent and lives lost but may be when it comes to what they represent to the people they affect. Referring to something as "911" is simply a way of communicating via a shared cultural event. The WTC site was referred to as "ground zero" many times then and to this day. Were those people equating the deaths of 3000 innocents to the deaths of 200,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? No. They were reaching for an easily understood figure of speech that expressed the scale, despair and heartbreak of a tragedy.

Christ, even Picard understood what the hell Dathon was talking about when he said, "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra." He didn't argue about whether Tanagra was equivalent to the current situation.

Fortunately, it doesn't look as if the damage was so severe that the cathedral will have to come down. It will be rebuilt, as was lower Manhattan, as was Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[dbHunterNY]

See trump questioned if they could use a flying water tanker. Seemed to get a ton of shit for it. Wonder if it wouldve been a good idea or feasible. French seemed to think it wouldve collapsed the bldg structure but idk if that was saving face or not. I think it couldve helped I mean the thing cooked for like 15 hours!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Nomad]

I know next to nothing about aircraft for firefighting , but each of those ladder pipes is dumping 350 gallons per minute and you have several running for hours on end , but the  end millions of pounds of water were added to that weakened building anyway .

The largest aircrafts ( I looked it up ) seem to drop 12,000 gallons or so ,about one ladderpipe running for 30-40 minutes worth of water, but at one drop .

Dont know how feasible it would be to fly a large plane low over that city, but their  existing plan seemed to have several flaws, if I may mmqb .

[left field]

I think it's more like 1200 gallons or about 10000 pounds. That's a hell of a lot of weight to crash down on a compromised structure even if they could target the drop. 

[steve863]

After seeing the photo of the inside of the church today, I was surprised to see so many things in decent shape after a long fire like that.  Lots of statues and things still standing and not totally destroyed.  I would think thousands of gallons of water dumped from an airplane would have demolished a lot of these things that the fire didn't.

[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

See trump questioned if they could use a flying water tanker. Seemed to get a ton of shit for it. Wonder if it wouldve been a good idea or feasible. French seemed to think it wouldve collapsed the bldg structure but idk if that was saving face or not. I think it couldve helped I mean the thing cooked for like 15 hours!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

I saw that ,bunch of hack news reporters trying to some how turn this against trump. 

[helmut in the bush]

Yeah, it's Trump's fault

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, left field said:

You may want to go back to the history books if you think no attack has killed more people.

They are not comparable when you consider intent and lives lost but may be when it comes to what they represent to the people they affect. Referring to something as "911" is simply a way of communicating via a shared cultural event. The WTC site was referred to as "ground zero" many times then and to this day. Were those people equating the deaths of 3000 innocents to the deaths of 200,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? No. They were reaching for an easily understood figure of speech that expressed the scale, despair and heartbreak of a tragedy.

Christ, even Picard understood what the hell Dathon was talking about when he said, "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra." He didn't argue about whether Tanagra was equivalent to the current situation.

Fortunately, it doesn't look as if the damage was so severe that the cathedral will have to come down. It will be rebuilt, as was lower Manhattan, as was Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Now what did I just say ?

I was talking about loss of a historical building not loss of life obviously. 

And  Japanese got nuked  because of pearl harbor and because they would not stop fighting  they where being suicidal. 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, left field said:

I think it's more like 1200 gallons or about 10000 pounds. That's a hell of a lot of weight to crash down on a compromised structure even if they could target the drop. 

You are dumping 10,000 pounds from a plane  it's going to hit with a hell of a lot more force then just 10,000 pounds depending on altitude you are taking about huge amount of water all at once moving at close to 100  mph  that's going to go right through most walls it hits .

Edited April 16, 2019 by Storm914

[phade]

A few weeks back I had the flu and couldn't sleep. Flipping TV channels at 2 or 3 in the AM, I came across some documentary or Dateline type show that walked through Notre Dame and the status that it was in. Essentially the funding wasn't there to upkeep the building and it was REALLY BAD. The curator was showing examples where there were roof issues and what not. Funding was obtained through, of all things, a lotto ticket. France sold a scratch off lotto ticket series where the take was directed to Notre Dame upkeep. It was a start, but the show ended saying it was not enough and might have been too late. The scaffolding was the part of the upkeep beginning. They took the bronze statues down before the fire.

I remember thinking if I were filthy rich, this would have been a cause worthy of donation, and that I hoped the wealthy might begin to influx cash. And then the Nyquil kicked in.

Really very surreal to see it burn only a few weeks later and see the wealthy commit to alot of money donations to restore. It reminds me of the fable about the frog and boiling water. Boil water and toss a frog in...it jumps out. Put a frog in room temperature water and slowly raise to a boil and he cooks. Gradual vs sudden change adaptability is a human weakness sometimes. 

[The_Field_Ager]

.

Edited April 16, 2019 by The_Field_Ager

[dbHunterNY]

4 hours ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I know next to nothing about aircraft for firefighting , but each of those ladder pipes is dumping 350 gallons per minute and you have several running for hours on end , but the  end millions of pounds of water were added to that weakened building anyway .

The largest aircrafts ( I looked it up ) seem to drop 12,000 gallons or so ,about one ladderpipe running for 30-40 minutes worth of water, but at one drop .

Dont know how feasible it would be to fly a large plane low over that city, but their  existing plan seemed to have several flaws, if I may mmqb .

that's the thing though they come in all shapes and sizes. if ladder pipes weren't totally efficient at getting to some of it why not dump a smaller load? some setups aren't large and hold under 1,000 gallons.  i'm sure they used what they had at their disposal and a smaller air tanker/bucket setup might not have even been around.  i guess what i'm saying is it's not an off the wall idea that should get bastardized like it did.

[Elmo]

11 hours ago, Storm914 said:

In terms of human life loss nothing comes close to 911 . But 

If you take out the lives lost

this was worse than 911 in terms of historical value .

Almost 900 years of history lost .

So far no attack or accident has killed  more people then 911  Hopefully  something that bad  never happens again . 

 

 

If history is so important, the this has it beat.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1326063/After-1700-years-Buddhas-fall-to-Taliban-dynamite.html

 

As far as "no single attack or accident has killed more people then 9/11?  Hiroshima and Nagasaki may have by a bit don't you think?

[Hunter007]

5 hours ago, Elmo said:

If history is so important, the this has it beat.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1326063/After-1700-years-Buddhas-fall-to-Taliban-dynamite.html

 

As far as "no single attack or accident has killed more people then 9/11?  Hiroshima and Nagasaki may have by a bit don't you think?

In are lifetime  I'm not over 70 and either are you .  Your not going to like this answer  because it's not PC but  I'm going to say it anyway.

 

 a gothic church is more important ,Much harder to build . There are Giant buda statue all of the world .

There was only one Notre dame church  with hundreds of priceless works of art in it .

One impressive Buda statue does not equal hundreds of statues. carvings, paintings  and stain glass windows that was in that church .

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=giant+buddha+statue&safe=off&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&prmd=simvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiq38fc39bhAhXvp1kKHUQACmUQ_AUoAnoECA0QAg

 

They already raised 1 billion To fix it 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/billion-raised-rebuild-paris-notre-dame-fire-62450622

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Storm914

[Hunter007]

31 minutes ago, ODYSSEUS said:

I still don't know if this fire was set on purpose.

You are not going to know for sure until the investigation is Finished that could take weeks. 

[The_Field_Ager]

 

[The_Field_Ager]

1 hour ago, Storm914 said:

You are not going to know for sure until the investigation is Finished that could take weeks. 

No way the truth of this will be known if a certain demographic was involved. France would burn

[Hunter007]

6 minutes ago, The_Field_Ager said:

No way the truth of this will be known if a certain demographic was involved. France would burn

It Is Possible but they think a new elevator they just put in short-circuited and caused the fire .

With all the security around Notre dame would be hard to attack it on purpose.  Unless it was a inside job by one of the workers .

[Hunter007]

 I forgot to mention  besides all the art works inside , all the hundreds of year old documents that a cathedral like notra dame would have  inside it . 

[Elmo]

9 hours ago, Storm914 said:

In are lifetime  I'm not over 70 and either are you .  Your not going to like this answer  because it's not PC but  I'm going to say it anyway.

 

 a gothic church is more important ,Much harder to build . There are Giant buda statue all of the world .

There was only one Notre dame church  with hundreds of priceless works of art in it .

One impressive Buda statue does not equal hundreds of statues. carvings, paintings  and stain glass windows that was in that church .

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=giant+buddha+statue&safe=off&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&prmd=simvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiq38fc39bhAhXvp1kKHUQACmUQ_AUoAnoECA0QAg

 

They already raised 1 billion To fix it 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/billion-raised-rebuild-paris-notre-dame-fire-62450622

 

 

 

You might not this answer either because it's not PC but I'm an atheist.  There are tons of churches everywhere.  They all for the most part look the same.  But I'm not here to compare Buddhas to churches.  Again, I'm an atheist.  I'm here because you're comparing a church that can be rebuilt to thousands of human lives that were lost in 9/11.

[steve863]

3 minutes ago, Elmo said:

You might not this answer either because it's not PC but I'm an atheist. 

Actually, in today's world being an atheist is very PC while being a Christian certainly isn't.  If you are an atheist, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Scientologist, etc, it is all acceptable.  Sadly, being a Christian, most especially a white male Christian, you are pretty much the lowest form of life according to today's PC standards.

[Hunter007]

58 minutes ago, Elmo said:

You might not this answer either because it's not PC but I'm an atheist.  There are tons of churches everywhere.  They all for the most part look the same.  But I'm not here to compare Buddhas to churches.  Again, I'm an atheist.  I'm here because you're comparing a church that can be rebuilt to thousands of human lives that were lost in 9/11.

I was comparing structures 

buildings  not people Only wrote that 5 times already. 

and some of what's in that church can never be rebuild  unless you know a way to bring back  the person who painted or carved by hand  the art works  800 years ago , churches of that type all  are different. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Storm914

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

Actually, in today's world being an atheist is very PC while being a Christian certainly isn't.  If you are an atheist, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Scientologist, etc, it is all acceptable.  Sadly, being a Christian, most especially a white male Christian, you are pretty much the lowest form of life according to today's PC standards.

Yep the most PC guy of all would be a illegal   Mexican athiest tranny .

The demcrats would make one president if they could  to show they are the most PC people of all .

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Storm914

[left field]

12 hours ago, Storm914 said:

In are lifetime  I'm not over 70 and either are you . 

I have to think you're trolling as no one can mistake "are" for "our." But what the hell ...

Just big picture stuff but in my lifetime we've (the US) has seen Vietnam, The Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afganistan, Iraq. Do you want a worldwide list?

 

2 hours ago, steve863 said:

Actually, in today's world being an atheist is very PC while being a Christian certainly isn't.  If you are an atheist, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Scientologist, etc, it is all acceptable.  Sadly, being a Christian, most especially a white male Christian, you are pretty much the lowest form of life according to today's PC standards.

I keep hearing this but I'm not sure where the evidence is. I live in Sodom and Gomorrah - NYC - and in a particularly churchy part of the city - Harlem - and I see nothing but full churches and people free to worship. If you can walk the streets of NYC with a forehead of ash in this city of left wing Jewish pornographers and not get hassled (as I saw dozens do on Ash Wednesday) I'm sure you can do so anywhere in the country.

Other than a few morons (which every side seems to breed), where is the condemnation?