Banned from local Facebook group

[Rattler]

Absolutely

[ATbuckhunter]

3 hours ago, crappyice said:

Allow me to gently toss out two dates for a potential party on the West Branch(or maybe the BK for those who really like tradition and fly fishing!!!)...Thursday June 27 or Saturday July 13......


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I think July 13th will work better for most people. Gives me time to buy some new flies too lol

[dbHunterNY]

i think it's not feasible to have a list and a 3 strike rule for getting it.  honestly first responders don't have the time to call in or check any kind of list.  i will say it's absolute BS that an epipen cost so much and narcan is free.  i know someone who is in recovery. his dad found him dead. he was brought back to life. years later at a wedding with his WHOLE family there he did it again. EMT's and police came to the hotel room on the floor we were all staying and gave him narcan. he lived, again. i can't in my right mind say they shouldn't give it. him not living would've been much worse.  he felt like shit and obviously struggles with the temptation every day. i struggle i'll never know or understand. still it's not a disease. he had and still has a choice, despite it's a hard one. people with a disease don't. seeing what he put the whole family through, AGAIN. he deserves every shot to the chin life gives him, because life has given him a 3rd chance.  they should be forced to pay for narcan and more importantly they should do community service say once every 6 months or so that somehow forces them to see damage to families the choice makes.  help out in a detox unit. help bury someone would didn't make it like they did. anything like that will work.  good three strike rule would be you give up where and from who you got it or go to prison for a minimum of 10 years.   ...sorry for the serious post. the OP got banned..

[Five Seasons]

what many fail to understand is that most do not just seek out heroin. They become addicted through an opiate that was prescribed to them for an injury or illness and can no longer afford or find their fix and resort to the next available thing.

that said, I'm not one of those who goes around promoting legal injection sites, similar to not allowing illegals to have a drivers license. 

I also don't think you deserved a ban, but you are being a little insensitive. I know a few families who have lost loved ones from this epidemic, hooked just the way I mentioned above and I doubt you would say the same to their face.

PS, pass legalized weed so people can treat their pain naturally.

[Five Seasons]

19 hours ago, grampy said:

You insensitive brute! Where's the block button on here?

Seriously though, what happened to freedom of speech?? What,... just because some snowflake disagrees with you on Facebook, you get banned? How is that right? Whole bunch of different opinions on any and every subject. So the powers that be, just ban whoever disagrees with them? That is pretty messed up.

I never have, or ever will have FB. I think it's a bunch of whooie, and this is just one of the reasons.

freedom of speech works like this.

No 1st amendment:

Chef makes comment on facebook.

gov't doesn't like comment and throws chef in jail.

1st amendment:

chef makes comment to boss or on facebook

boss or admin doesn't like comment and bans/fires chef

chef still not in jail

 

the first amendment is not freedom from consequences. It's the right to say things and not go to jail for them (with the exception of threatening harm and such). It's why you can still be openly racist and not go to jail. However, nobody will generally hire you or want to be around you... except maybe papsmear. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Belo

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

freedom of speech works like this.

No 1st amendment:

Chef makes comment on facebook.

gov't doesn't like comment and throws chef in jail.

1st amendment:

chef makes comment to boss or on facebook

boss or admin doesn't like comment and bans/fires chef

chef still not in jail

 

the first amendment is not freedom from consequences. It's the right to say things and not go to jail for them (with the exception of threatening harm and such). It's why you can still be openly racist and not go to jail. However, nobody will generally hire you or want to be around you... except maybe papsmear. 

A public forum, also called an openforum, is open to all expression that is protected under the First Amendment. Streets, parks, and sidewalks are considered open topublic discourse by tradition and are designated as traditional public forums.

 

one can make the case , Facebook is the same as a public street or park in which case you can say what ever you want . Facebook trys  to have it both ways  they don't want to be sued if someone does something on there, they  say we  are not a publisher  but  a public platform then when they don't like something that a user says  they go the other way  and say they  are a private company. 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Hawk914

[cbyzerman]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

what many fail to understand is that most do not just seek out heroin. They become addicted through an opiate that was prescribed to them for an injury or illness and can no longer afford or find their fix and resort to the next available thing.

that said, I'm not one of those who goes around promoting legal injection sites, similar to not allowing illegals to have a drivers license. 

I also don't think you deserved a ban, but you are being a little insensitive. I know a few families who have lost loved ones from this epidemic, hooked just the way I mentioned above and I doubt you would say the same to their face.

PS, pass legalized weed so people can treat their pain naturally.

Yup absolutely....   Friend of mine was nicest kid in world and got hurt from falling off roof...  His back was really  messed up Got addicted to Oxy and then fentinol after that... Completely different person after that injury and a few years later was not with us anymore...  My buddy was a health nut in incredible shape and doubt he would have ever done drugs if it was not for his accident..........  

[Five Seasons]

A public forum, also called an openforum, is open to all expression that is protected under the First Amendment. Streets, parks, and sidewalks are considered open topublic discourse by tradition and are designated as traditional public forums.
 
one can make the case , Facebook is the same as a public street or park in which case you can say what ever you want . Facebook trys  to have it both ways  they don't want to be sued if someone does something on there, they  say we  are not a publisher  but  a public platform then when they don't like something that a user says  they go the other way  and say they  are a private company. 
 

One cannot make the case. Just like this website. It is owned and operated by a private business or person. Not the government (ie public)


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[Hunter007]

35 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

One cannot make the case. Just like this website. It is owned and operated by a private business or person. Not the government (ie public)


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This is something the supreme court has not ruled on yet .

This site is not the same as Facebook  its topic specific hunting .

Facebook markets its self as a place everyone can hangout   like a public park . 

I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm not saying you are right .its something that really has not been settled yet because the platform is so new . 

Facebook is more like the internet itself  in ways . 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Hawk914

[The_Real_TCIII]

Dealing opiates should be a capital offense.


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[Hunter007]

11 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Dealing opiates should be a capital offense.


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Yes and maybe better education about how f up these drugs really are  I think a lot of these people are just not informed enough  about that maybe . 

[Uncle Nicky]

I don't have time or patience for active addicts, I don't want them around me, they can't be trusted. . But I have seen many pull themselves from the depths of heroin (and alcohol) addiction and go on to lead productive lives (and also seen many who died first).

If Narcan is cheap and available, I don't see what the big deal is. It's an EMT or cop or doctor's job to save lives, no matter what the circumstances, not play God because they don't agree with someone's bad decisions.

I like what Belo said, would anyone have the balls to say what they are saying here to someone whose daughter/son/brother/sister died from an overdose to their face? I doubt most would.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Uncle Nicky

[Jeremy K]

I've heard multiple stories from first responders about being physically attacked after administering narcan because In the process of saving their lives ,they ruined their precious high.

[Rattler]

That's a fact.  In my dept, many times overdosed addicts become violent when they are given NARCAN.  Seems they feel pain when it is working and attack who they believe is attacking them.  

To say MOST people on heroin have been victims of legally prescribed opiates is a falsehood.  The majority of heroin addicts have never had a major injury or been under any doctor's care for pain.  Many have, but they also did not take the prescription drugs as prescribed, or else they wouldn't have become addicted to them. 

Once they were taken off the pain killers, (many are taken off when the Doc realizes they are taking too many of them) they could've sought other prescription drugs to stop the pain, but that costs money and they don't give the same "high".  Heroin also costs money.  Making a decision to start taking heroin when you know it will kill you is still a choice.  It's a bad choice. 

Regardless of how you look at the issue, it's the personal responsibility of those who become addicted.  Playing the victim and claiming victim status is simply the course to choose when seeking the most personal benefit for bad choices.  This is another case of liberal society claiming nobody is responsible for what happens to them, and ALL of society must be burdened with the costs of fixing everyone's bad choices.  It's proven by the fact nothing is required of the addict after they are given NARCAN.

BTW, it the pusher gives an addict a lethal heroin dose and the addict goes into an overdose state, as long as he calls 911, he can not be arrested or prosecuted for selling, or administering the heroin.  That's the law.  We let them go free because they called to save a life they will continue to sell heroin to in the future.  Liberalism created that scenario too.

 

BTW, the OP got banned from the local community forum because he said something that challenges the prevailing myths of the victim class and it's supporters.  All opposition must be silenced.  They can do it legally, but it's not going to do anything to solve the problem.

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Rattler

[Hunter007]

I don't know the answer there has always been a segment of the population that is self destructive maybe  education at a early age about the dangers of those drugs. could help  I think once there on that crap most the time its to late. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Hawk914

[cbyzerman]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

That's a fact.  In my dept, many times overdosed addicts become violent when they are given NARCAN.  Seems they feel pain when it is working and attack who they believe is attacking them.  

To say MOST people on heroin have been victims of legally prescribed opiates is a falsehood.  The majority of heroin addicts have never had a major injury or been under any doctor's care for pain.  Many have, but they also did not take the prescription drugs as prescribed, or else they wouldn't have become addicted to them. 

Once they were taken off the pain killers, (many are taken off when the Doc realizes they are taking too many of them) they could've sought other prescription drugs to stop the pain, but that costs money and they don't give the same "high".  Heroin also costs money.  Making a decision to start taking heroin when you know it will kill you is still a choice.  It's a bad choice. 

Regardless of how you look at the issue, it's the personal responsibility of those who become addicted.  Playing the victim and claiming victim status is simply the course to choose when seeking the most personal benefit for bad choices.  This is another case of liberal society claiming nobody is responsible for what happens to them, and ALL of society must be burdened with the costs of fixing everyone's bad choices.  It's proven by the fact nothing is required of the addict after they are given NARCAN.

BTW, it the pusher gives an addict a lethal heroin dose and the addict goes into an overdose state, as long as he calls 911, he can not be arrested or prosecuted for selling, or administering the heroin.  That's the law.  We let them go free because they called to save a life they will continue to sell heroin to in the future.  Liberalism created that scenario too.

 

BTW, the OP got banned from the local community forum because he said something that challenges the prevailing myths of the victim class and it's supporters.  All opposition must be silenced.  They can do it legally, but it's not going to do anything to solve the problem.

 

Not true at all........  Drs are cracking down now cause many have lost there licenses and many especially in florida are even in prison............. Now you are talking garbage and totally ignorant..........   If you were in pain they gave you pain killers.............

[Rattler]

2 minutes ago, cbyzerman said:

Not true at all........  Drs are cracking down now cause many have lost there licenses and many especially in florida are even in prison............. Now you are talking garbage and totally ignorant..........   If you were in pain they gave you pain killers.............

I speak from experience my friend.  Doctors are cracking down now because they have come to realize the addictive aspects of these drugs when their patients choose to abuse them.  Abuse is the point.  Many doctors were selling opioids for profit to addicts. Both made poor choices.  Both deserve prison.  Society should not be expected to pay for it.   Don't call me ignorant when you have nothing to rebut the facts with.  I stand by my post and cannot be insulted by someone when I don't value their opinion to begin with.

[Uncle Nicky]

1 minute ago, Rattler said:

I speak from experience my friend.  Doctors are cracking down now because they have come to realize the addictive aspects of these drugs when their patients choose to abuse them.  Abuse is the point.  Many doctors were selling opioids for profit to addicts. Both made poor choices.  Both deserve prison.  Society should not be expected to pay for it.   Don't call me ignorant when you have nothing to rebut the facts with.  I stand by my post and cannot be insulted by someone when I don't value their opinion to begin with.

Not in the mood for a debate, but "society" is allowing this cycle to perpetuate over & over again, the addicts & doctors are just pawns in this big chess game.

We have allowed big business and pharmaceutical companies to get their tentacles into the process of politics & government. We make a show of guarding the border, but stil the demand is there and we continue to let the supply arrive. Society seems to be turning a blind eye to the problem.....

[Five Seasons]

11 hours ago, Hawk914 said:

This is something the supreme court has not ruled on yet .

This site is not the same as Facebook  its topic specific hunting .

Facebook markets its self as a place everyone can hangout   like a public park . 

I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm not saying you are right .its something that really has not been settled yet because the platform is so new . 

Facebook is more like the internet itself  in ways . 

 

 

the fact that they have not ruled on this, or taken up the issue further solidifies my point. Additionally, chef was banned from a group on facebook, not facebook. That is exactly like being banned from a specific hunting forum.

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

Many have, but they also did not take the prescription drugs as prescribed, or else they wouldn't have become addicted to them. 

BTW, the OP got banned from the local community forum because he said something that challenges the prevailing myths of the victim class and it's supporters.  All opposition must be silenced.  They can do it legally, but it's not going to do anything to solve the problem.

 

man there is so much ignorance here I'm not even sure what to say. Please just do a little research on the opioid crisis (one recognized even by trump). Please try and understand the pain clinics in florida and the pharmaceutical lobbyist position on this before you just swallow "all doctors are good" nonsense.

To your second point, there's nothing stopping chef from starting his own facebook group and not silencing the opposition. It's even free. You can find anti-vaxxers, flat earthers, fake moon landing groups. And you can find pro-life and pro-choice. Each filtering the other sides's opinion. 

[Five Seasons]

16 minutes ago, Rattler said:

 the addictive aspects of these drugs when their patients choose to abuse them.  

you speak like addiction is a choice. The vast majority of patients don't choose to abuse. They become addicted and have trouble digging out. Some people have a better tolerance, stronger willed etc. Some have a strong addictive personality. Nobody just decides they want to end up injecting heroin in a city alley. They suffering either physically or emotionally and the drug is the only thing that helps. If we as a society would work harder on mental health and alternative, safer pain management like marijuana then those who will struggle with addiction may not ever need the gateway prescription in the first place.

and if this is some sort of tough guy thing for you, look no further than many of our professional athletes like Brett Farve and others who have taken these pills to recover from injuries and can no longer seem to live without them.

My boss is a marine. had a horrible head on collision accident a few weeks ago from a drunk driver. Broke her back in multiple places, ribs, sternum etc. She's basically refusing many of the pain meds as much as she can tolerate because she knows the long term affects. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Belo

[Rattler]

Belo, don't look know but you're making my point for me.  It's a choice.  To avoid pain, they choose addictive pain killers.  If used properly they don't become addicts.  If not, which is a choice, they do.

I never said all doctors are good.  I understand some are pushers.  Patients have a responsibility to themselves to avoid those doctors.  Some seek them out.

The ignorance is on the side professing this is not true.  They're selling victimhood, and from personal experience with this issue I can wholeheartedly say, nobody with an analytical, factual mind is buying it.

I'm not surprised a Marine would make the right choice.

That's not to say people don't need help.  It's saying society is not responsible for paying for it.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Rattler

[steve863]

19 minutes ago, cbyzerman said:

Not true at all........  Drs are cracking down now cause many have lost there licenses and many especially in florida are even in prison............. Now you are talking garbage and totally ignorant..........   If you were in pain they gave you pain killers.............

I'm sure there may have been some who got addicted to pain killers thru doctors prescribing it to them, but I think the vast majority of people who get addicted and then maybe move on to harder stuff like heroin are now using the excuse that it was doctors who somehow got them started. Those people who get themselves in a state where first responder's will be saving them with Narcan would have probably gotten themselves into that state with or without a doctors prescription.  These folks have addictive personalities and have little to NO self-control.  It's no secret that prescription pain killers are highly addictive, so even if a doctor prescribes them, a sensible person with self-control and common sense would suck it up and withstand the pain, but surely wouldn't let themselves fall into such a state of addiction. 

I know there will be some here who will claim that I am wrong and that I don't know what I am talking about, but so be it.  I've walked this earth long enough to know that folks with little discipline, self-control, and without a set of morals fail in many facets of life, so it is no surprise to me that many of them would also succumb to such an addiction.  I think it would be great if doctor's would prescribe less drugs in general, not only opioids, but in the end one can't put the blame on them or society.  In most cases it's the individual who creates problems for themselves and this opioid problem is just another example of it.

 

 

 

[virgil]

Heroin is not necessarily the 'harder stuff'.  it's just cheaper and more available than prescription opioids.  Much of the opioid crisis is due to Joint Commission mandates over the past decade or so that required hospitals to 'control post-operative pain' before discharging a patient.  This meant that patients should expect to have no pain before leaving the hospital, which led to the need for stronger drugs than were used in the past.  Those drugs are much more powerful and much more addictive than pain meds that were prescribed before.  Patients can get addicted without necessarily 'abusing' their prescribed meds.  Once the prescription runs out, the new addict turns to street drugs.

Those Joint Commission mandates are changing.  As a result, doctors are much more vigilant with what they prescribe.  It was never realistic that a patient having a major surgery, total knee replacement for example, should expect to be pain free three days post-op.  The new mandates are about managing patients' expectations of post-op pain.

[Hunter007]

There is a problem in this country of people being overly medicated in general and looking for a pill for every little problem they have . Kids act up give him a pill to calm him down ,have a little cold take a pill any problem take a pill . Nobody in the world goes to doctors as much as we do . And the doctors say yes maybe way to often when patients ask for more pain medications . 

[steve863]

2 minutes ago, virgil said:

Once the prescription runs out, the new addict turns to street drugs.

I doubt such a statistic would be available, but I would really like to see something that would prove your statement to be true.  What you say is what the media and everyone else wants us to believe, but I myself have a hard time accepting this as fact that most people who has never taken drugs in their life would go on to resort to street drugs after being given some pain killers by a doctor or after a hospital stay.  Yes, I could definitely see the person with past drug use get themselves into such a hole, but a person with a brain, common sense and some self-control I have a much harder time seeing going down this path.