From The DEC

[Steve D]

Preseason Prep: Sight In with Non-lead

With sporting licenses now on sale, many hunters begin to think about getting ready for the upcoming seasons. Preseason preparation can really influence safety, enjoyment, and success when big game seasons finally begin. Not only can you get a bit of added exercise when checking out a favorite hunting spot, but it’s also a good time to repair, replace, and position tree stands so they are safe and ready for use. A little time at the range, now and over the next few months, will also build skill and confidence for a clean shot when the time comes. When you go to the range, this might be a good year to zero-in with lead-free bullets or slugs to ensure the best quality wild game for you and your family.

Lead alternatives, typically made of copper or copper alloy, have excellent performance and do not fragment, leaving traces of lead behind in your meat or the gut pile. The result is more healthy table fare for you and less chance of harming wildlife scavenging the parts you leave behind. You put a lot into your preparation for the hunt. The small cost of going lead-free won’t disappoint and is good conservation.  

Comparison of two .270 caliber bullets shot into a modified rain barrel for collection. The copper jacket lead-core bullet (left) is heavily fragmented compared to solid copper bullet (right) that retained its original shape upon impact.

[Nytracker]

LEAD KILLS !!!!!

[airedale]

I have always been one of those people that have to see things for myself and bullet performance has been one of those things. Years ago when developing handloads I made all kinds of bullet traps to see how my bullet choices for my handloads performed, penetration expansion and how they held together was what I was looking to examine. Boards, Clay, Branches, Dowels, Soaked Newspapers and Magazines, Water Jugs, Sand along with other goofy concoctions I devised. I shot hundreds of bullets and other than thin jacket explosive "Varmint" bullets traveling at extremely high velocity, I never saw any big game bullets of any make no matter what medium they were fired into disintegrate into tiny pieces as pictured above. There is no doubt in my mind that that photo is bullshit anti lead-traditional ammo propaganda plain and simple.

Edited August 18, 2019 by airedale

[ATbuckhunter]

3 minutes ago, airedale said:

I have always been one of those people that have to see things for myself and bullet performance has been one of those things. Years ago when developing handloads I made all kinds of bullet traps to see how my bullet choices for my handloads performed, penetration expansion and how they held together was what I was looking to examine. Boards, Clay, Branches, Dowels, Soaked Newspapers and Magazines, Water Jugs, Sand along with other goofy concoctions I devised. I shot hundreds of bullets and other than thin jacket explosive "Varmint" bullets shot at extremely high velocity, I never saw any big game bullets of any make no matter what medium they were fired into disintegrate into tiny pieces as pictured above. There is no doubt in my mind that that photo is bullshit anti lead-traditional ammo propaganda plain and simple.

I saw it happen when someone shot into a vatt of water. Theres no doubt that lead breaks apart when shot into an animal. If it didnt, we would always have 100 percent weight retention. This is probably one of the extreems on how a bullet can break apart though

[airedale]

41 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

I saw it happen when someone shot into a vatt of water. Theres no doubt that lead breaks apart when shot into an animal. If it didnt, we would always have 100 percent weight retention. This is probably one of the extreems on how a bullet can break apart though

I have had plenty of bullets fail my tests but it is not from disintegration, the jacket will peel away and separate from the core and while there may be a few pieces of lead here and there I have seen nothing like what is pictured above unless it was a dedicated varmint bullet which is made to explode.

Al

Edited August 18, 2019 by airedale

[ATbuckhunter]

1 minute ago, airedale said:

I have had plenty of bullets fail my tests but it is not from disintegration, the jacket will peel away from the core and while there may be a few pieces of lead here and there I have seen nothing like what is pictured above. 

Al

Right this is one of the worst cases, but it is possible. There was a good video of a guy shooting a pig and taking an xray of the pig after he shot it with a lead bullet and you can see the pieces of lead all over the body cavity in the xray

Edited August 18, 2019 by ATbuckhunter

[grampy]

Still not giving up my Nosler BT's. They just work too good.

Dead right there equals no tracking. Most times the highly expanded bullet is recovered from the off side of the deer. 

[Steve D]

36 minutes ago, airedale said:

There is no doubt in my mind that that photo is bullshit anti lead-traditional ammo propaganda plain and simple.

Please don't shoot the messenger....Especially with lead

[GreenDrake]

Though I try to maximize the meat off an animal when processing it, any bullet trauma is cut away and discarded. I think most processors do the same. I do not see where anyone would be eating much lead even if the bullet fragments. 

[Rattler]

The picture of the bullets in the OP show a lead bullet fired into water at maximum velocity, so fragments are to be expected, though that photo appears to be of a worst case scenario, using a bullet not typical of a deer hunting round.

Copper actually will give better penetration and good expansion, when it hits at a high velocity.  Copper bullets often fail to expand when the velocity of the bullet drops below a certain speed, causing penetration with little internal damage, much like a full metal jacket bullet would do.

As far as cost goes, copper is more than just a little more expensive.  It is quite a bit more expensive, especially when compared to average bread & butter rounds that are at the bottom of the price scale.  You can find .30-06 from PPU for $16 per box, whereas the cheapest copper rounds in .30-06 go for $26 per box.

Copper also fouls the bore when the bullets don't have belts in the jacket to keep it from flowing when fired down the bore.  The least expensive copper bullets don't have the belts.  Copper fouling will ruin accuracy and is much harder to remove from a bore than conventional bullet fouling.

Does using conventional bullets put lead fragments in the meat you might eat?  That depends on where you hit the deer and how well you gut and butcher it.  You can learn to cut it out.

Do gut piles endanger raptors?  They may if they are eaten by raptors, but not many are.  Coyote, bear and other scavengers usually get to gut piles first.  If anyone needs to be regulated regarding raptor threats from lead ammo, it's the deer processors that have open dumpsters on site where all the waste is thrown.  These dumpsters attract raptors en masse.  But the regs do not require they be covered.

I have no problem with promotion of copper bullets for hunting, but they are not the be all, end all magic bullets they are often made out to be.  If you like them, use them.  My concern is with the people who push them.  They are one step from requiring they be mandated, and that is where I object, because I believe there is a lot more to their push than just helping raptors.  For example, all copper bullets will easily penetrate body armor.  I'll let the reader extrapolate a little on that point to imagine where that might lead.

[Hunter007]

Yea but wtf do I do with the stock up of lead slugs and  bullets  I already have bought over the years  

 

 

[TACC]

From what I understood from the California ban that went into complete affect this year per the NRA's magazine American hunter this month, you can still use them for target practice, or sighting in your weapon .

Yea but wtf do I do with the stock up of lead slugs and  bullets  I already have bought over the years  
 
 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Rattler]

19 hours ago, Steve D said:

Preseason Prep: Sight In with Non-lead

Lead alternatives, typically made of copper or copper alloy, have excellent performance and do not fragment, leaving traces of lead behind in your meat or the gut pile. The result is more healthy table fare for you and less chance of harming wildlife scavenging the parts you leave behind. You put a lot into your preparation for the hunt. The small cost of going lead-free won’t disappoint and is good conservation.  

Comparison of two .270 caliber bullets shot into a modified rain barrel for collection. The copper jacket lead-core bullet (left) is heavily fragmented compared to solid copper bullet (right) that retained its original shape upon impact.

The last line above illustrates the lack of knowledge of the writer.  I would say the bullet on the right is far from it's original shape after impact.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 hours ago, Rattler said:

The last line above illustrates the lack of knowledge of the writer.  I would say the bullet on the right is far from it's original shape after impact.

I would have thought he meant weight. 

[Rattler]

I'm sure  the writer was told it retained it's weight, but obviously has little understanding of the concept, thereby got it wrong.  Sounds like the writer was "parroting" what to write.