Hunters siding with Antis....sickening

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Wasn't so long ago that Syracuse and West had the same reg. I gre up hunting Sundays and darn near fainted when I moved out here....Hated not being able to go out on both days.

[steve863]

Back in the early days people actually attended church and observed the sabith.. so I'm sure most of those people were ok with the no Sunday hunting rule.. I'm not sure that there were many "right wing zealots" in 1873.. I don't even think the term was used until recently.. they may have been conservative people... but because they were religious people and looked at Sunday as a holy day of rest doesn't make them a zealot..

You can call the people back in 1873 whatever you want. Why are we now in 2011 and the no Sunday hunting rule is still in effect? I just can't imagine that this is the first time someone proposed lifting this no Sunday ban in PA. I highly doubt the HSUS was the major player behind any prior efforts to stop the no Sunday hunting ban from getting lifted.

Edited September 15, 2011 by steve863

[Doc]

I can't tell you a whole lot about the lives and attitudes back in 1873. I'm old, but not that old ..... ha-ha. However, I definitely can tell you that for a lot of people today, Sunday is 1/2 of the only available time away from work that they have for hunting. In fact with mandatory overtime and mandated Saturday work-days, Sunday may very well be the only time available. Corporate down-sizing has placed an enormous burden on those few workers that remain and while some of us may have unlimited freedom when it comes to vacation planning, there are many more that don't, especially if they are to have any family life at all.

As far as farmer attitudes, I will always remember the time back in the 80's when I went down to PA to bowhunt. On one of the properties that we asked for and were granted permission to hunt, as we were walking away, I heard the guy muttering under his breath, "I hope they get them all". That kind of gave me a picture of how some of the more realistic farmers down there view hunters. I truly believe that this guy and the few others that we approached viewed us as allies in their battle against deer damage. I definitely get the feeling that if a Sunday was interupted by some shots in the woods, you might just see them break out in a big grin.

[Buckstopshere]

Right you are, Doc. That was the "old days" in Pa. Now, they have decimated the deer herd down there so badly with their new AR-deer herd reduction plan (they go together,) those same farmers would be wondering what anyone was shooting at!

[nyantler]

Right you are, Doc. That was the "old days" in Pa. Now, they have decimated the deer herd down there so badly with their new AR-deer herd reduction plan (they go together,) those same farmers would be wondering what anyone was shooting at!

What a lot of people call decimated is actually an over populated herd finally getting back to where it should be... the fact that a hunter has to work to get a deer when he use to be able to just sit for 5 minutes on the front porch and see deer.. doesn't mean that the herd is decimated.

Farmers might like having the hunters around.. their motivation is different than conservations motivation... too many deer to a farmer is not necessarily too many deer for an area... Sunday hunting was not allowed for years because of the religious day of rest... not because of something hunters did or didn't do... if that need for a religious observance isn't required by the general public then I see no reason not to have sunday hunting.. unless it disrupts any management plan.. which I'm sure could be readjusted to fit the addition of an extra day of hunting.

[Buckstopshere]

If you think a buck index (bucks per square mile) in North Central Pa. - Unit 3A of less than 2.0 in 2009 and 2010, is an "over-populated herd, getting back where it should be," you drank the AR-Doe Reduction Koolaid and there is no hope.

[erussell]

One would think that by 2011 hunters would have already done something about this idiotic, remnant from puritanical times law that doesn't allow Sunday hunting? From what I read the law has been in effect since 1873. Sure now you have the left wing Humane society trying to keep the ban on Sunday hunting for self-serving reasons, but we can't forget that the right wing religious zealots were the ones who implemented the ban in the first place and have done their damndest to keep the ban alive to this day. We really didn't have these left wing groups until the 1960's. One would have thought that something could have been done about this law well before the 60's? Both sides are pretty screwed up in my opinion, and blaming one side only is not looking at the whole picture here.

Funny how " right wing religious zealot's " ( also known as Puritins, though the earliest known "blue law" were from constantine a sun worshiper ) helped put Blue laws on the books in the early yrs of our great Country and now Left wing wine sipping, bigoted,God hateingl, Eletist ,Socialist, idealogs are trying to keep a law on the books put in place by Christians to enforce Christian values? Why I don't like liberals, they have a ton of book knowledge but I haven't met but a few with common sense. Anyhow,

I really don't see how adding Sunday will raise money, think that is more wishfull thinking but it should be repealed. Even in the Bible belt they hunt on Sundays so a bunch of Godless Pennsylvanians should be able to also.

Edited September 16, 2011 by erussell

[erussell]

Also back when the no hunting on Sunday law was started there were probably more mass deer drives and use of hunting dogs that made more noise. Nowaday after the 1st day the woods is pretty quiet.

[growalot]

As you've seen...I really don't give a rats behind what any one thinks of me...so I have no qualms saying this....

Reading back over some of these post gives me a crystal clear view and idea of why antis...moderates and even hunters say the negative things they do about hunters...sad and the worst of it is some of these are just as extreme to "your" side in bashing dept as the anti's you despise....

So go for it shoot the messenger take your best shot ...but before doing so...take the time to just read through the post and think about it...hey JMO

[steve863]

Funny how " right wing religious zealot's " ( also known as Puritins, though the earliest known "blue law" were from constantine a sun worshiper ) helped put Blue laws on the books in the early yrs of our great Country and now Left wing wine sipping, bigoted,God hateingl, Eletist ,Socialist, idealogs are trying to keep a law on the books put in place by Christians to enforce Christian values? Why I don't like liberals, they have a ton of book knowledge but I haven't met but a few with common sense. Anyhow,

I really don't see how adding Sunday will raise money, think that is more wishfull thinking but it should be repealed. Even in the Bible belt they hunt on Sundays so a bunch of Godless Pennsylvanians should be able to also.

OK, you hate liberal thinkers, but are they the only ones responsible for this law still being in effect in 2011?? Lots of bashing of the HSUS for their support of it today, but where were hunters in prior years to try to get it repealed?? I am sure plenty of hunters tried to get it repealed in past years, my question is why wasn't it and who was responsible for not letting it get repealed? As I said before. Liberals are not the only ones to blame here.

[Doc]

OK, you hate liberal thinkers, but are they the only ones responsible for this law still being in effect in 2011?? Lots of bashing of the HSUS for their support of it today, but where were hunters in prior years to try to get it repealed?? I am sure plenty of hunters tried to get it repealed in past years, my question is why wasn't it and who was responsible for not letting it get repealed? As I said before. Liberals are not the only ones to blame here.

They certainly are not. The biggest blame lies with hunters themselves in that we have never really learned how to organize and assert ourselves. And that is not something that is improving as time goes on. The liberals have learned the value of organization. Hunters and other outdoorsmen are still delighting in trying to destroy their organizations with their sniping and constant encouraging of non-participation over nearly irrelevant single issue items. I keep thinking how much differently this thread would look if the animal rights folks treated their advocacy organizations the way we hunters treat ours. The animal rights people would be an irrelevant non-entity that would have no ability to try to block anything. Well, that's kind of the other way around now isn't it? And hunters have only themselves to blame for that.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't know if I am going to say this correctly so bare with me and let me try. When I look at the anti's....whether it is anti hunting...anti gun...anti de'jour....compared ot a group like hunters.....I see a lot of questions about why we are not as organized or dutiful or vigilent as they are. It comes to mind that the PC and politics associated with our activity is a side bar to the actual activity and passion. We hunt...we fish...we own and shoot guns. That is the passion we all share and the effort to dance through all the political BS is a distraction froom that passion. While we may support the efforts to protect or expand our interest they take second seat to the interest.

To the anti's (which in many cases are liberals) the activity of removing or restricting what ever they are anti about IS their passion. There is no distraction. That is their main focus. Their hobby if you will. It gets all their attention and effort.

That is why I think we fll short and why they have been allowed to make any headway...my 2 cents

[steve863]

I don't know if I am going to say this correctly so bare with me and let me try. When I look at the anti's....whether it is anti hunting...anti gun...anti de'jour....compared ot a group like hunters.....I see a lot of questions about why we are not as organized or dutiful or vigilent as they are. It comes to mind that the PC and politics associated with our activity is a side bar to the actual activity and passion. We hunt...we fish...we own and shoot guns. That is the passion we all share and the effort to dance through all the political BS is a distraction froom that passion. While we may support the efforts to protect or expand our interest they take second seat to the interest.

To the anti's (which in many cases are liberals) the activity of removing or restricting what ever they are anti about IS their passion. There is no distraction. That is their main focus. Their hobby if you will. It gets all their attention and effort.

That is why I think we fll short and why they have been allowed to make any headway...my 2 cents

Very well put, Culver! Plus, I think for most hunters their very nature is to shun the public spotlight. We tend to not trust much of humanity and for darned sure any politicians who in most every case would't think twice about selling their own mothers for a vote. Our entire being is to go into the woods and blend with nature and forget about the nonsense of the everyday world. Most of us realize we won't change many peoples minds about our pastime, thus we just keep to ourselves and don't get involved with any organizations. Way more things important to us in life than argue with people who surely will never understand.

[Doc]

I think you're probably right. The politics of outdoor activities is actually a pain in the neck. Not only that but do we really want to get involved in that part of the stuff. You're right .... it is the hunting that we are interested in. It's not the wrestling match that all the political hassle involves that we want to get involved with. It's a lot harder for us to get motivated on that end of things. Not only that, but we look around us and realize that hunting won't be changing much for the remainder of our hunting days, and the next generation will have to live with whatever we leave them. Also, we know that there are some people still politically active and trying to keep the organizations afloat, and so there is no reason for us to spend the money or effort as long as we have other people carrying on the fight for us.

When you sit down and think about all of that, it's pretty easy to shoot holes in all of that faulty reasoning and excuse-making, but few of us ever do. And that's why we find ourselves in a fight with nitwits and find the nitwits winning.

I don't think it is a situation that will ever change because it is all based on common human nature. I do my little bit in supporting our advocacy organizations, but I have to admit that there is probably a lot more that I should do. Unfortunately, I get a bit discouraged when I see the attitudes of some of the other hunters and I get the feeling that it really is a losing fight in the long-run. It's that feeling that makes me not one bit surprised that there still are states with these kinds of blue-laws regarding hunting. It really is actually what I have come to expect. frankly, I am amazed that we don't still have them.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I don't know if I am going to say this correctly so bare with me and let me try. When I look at the anti's....whether it is anti hunting...anti gun...anti de'jour....compared ot a group like hunters.....I see a lot of questions about why we are not as organized or dutiful or vigilent as they are. It comes to mind that the PC and politics associated with our activity is a side bar to the actual activity and passion. We hunt...we fish...we own and shoot guns. That is the passion we all share and the effort to dance through all the political BS is a distraction froom that passion. While we may support the efforts to protect or expand our interest they take second seat to the interest.

To the anti's (which in many cases are liberals) the activity of removing or restricting what ever they are anti about IS their passion. There is no distraction. That is their main focus. Their hobby if you will. It gets all their attention and effort.

That is why I think we fll short and why they have been allowed to make any headway...my 2 cents

This is "money" right here. Well said.

[Dom]

open on sat close on sun sounds like alot of us will be off of work on Mondays

[burmjohn]

They should start charging for permits for other recreational use as we hunters and fisherman do...then they could gripe...until then I don't see the validity of their argument.

You know what, that is the BEST Idea I've herd YET!

[RobC]

You know what, that is the BEST Idea I've herd YET!

I want to agree with that but I also like hiking and camping etc. etc. so if I had to buy a permit for every recreational activity I'd be more broke then I am now.

[burmjohn]

I want to agree with that but I also like hiking and camping etc. etc. so if I had to buy a permit for every recreational activity I'd be more broke then I am now.

Yeah but thats not the point, the point is to remind people the reason they have these activities and privileges FREE is because of us.

[nyantler]

The real difference between hunting and hiking or camping isn't in the use of the land.. we all get to use the land for free... hunters have to pay for the privelege to take something from the land they are using.. same as a fisherman... hikers and campers are taking nothing from the land..

[burmjohn]

Right they take nothing from the land other then wear and tear and garbage. Things that cost money to maintain and patrol. Its the same deal.

[nyantler]

You are right there John.. good point.

[growalot]

You mean to tell me they haven't managed to finagle a usage tax some where in all those other usage taxes for this?

Right they take nothing from the land other then wear and tear and garbage. Things that cost money to maintain and patrol. Its the same deal.

[growalot]

Wow what happened there?

[erussell]

The real difference between hunting and hiking or camping isn't in the use of the land.. we all get to use the land for free... hunters have to pay for the privelege to take something from the land they are using.. same as a fisherman... hikers and campers are taking nothing from the land..

No they don't take but they leave one hell of a mess you should see the state land by my house.