Contest Shut Down By Antis

[left field]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

I've seen it with my own eyes.  How do you think yotes take out deer?

I don't doubt they can and do hamstring deer and eat them as they see fit with no consideration for the prey. The issue is the line below...

2 hours ago, Rattler said:

 Most other predators kill the prey before eating it.

That's simply not true and for every video of coyotes and deer you post I can find videos of other predators doing the same.

@Steve D 

Not sure what response those pictures are supposed invoke. That Mother Nature is a cruel mistress? Okay. 

The JRT is unfortunate, but it's the same as a road killed dog. And there are pictures of dead deer and foxes all over this forum. Is your point that a fox killed by trapper is good whereas a fox killed by a coyote is bad? 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by left field

[Rattler]

16 minutes ago, left field said:

I don't doubt they can and do hamstring deer and eat them as they see fit with no consideration for the prey. The issue is the line below...

That's simply not true and for every video of coyotes and deer you post I can find videos of other predators doing the same.  I was referring to deer there, not mice.

@Steve D 

Not sure what response those pictures are supposed invoke. That Mother Nature is a cruel mistress? Okay. 

The JRT is unfortunate, but it's the same as a road killed dog. And there are pictures of dead deer and foxes all over this forum. Is your point that a fox killed by trapper is good whereas a fox killed by a coyote is bad? A trapper puts it out of it's misery fast.  The point is you questioned if it ever happened.

 

 

[Steve D]

33 minutes ago, left field said:

The JRT is unfortunate, but it's the same as a road killed dog. And there are pictures of dead deer and foxes all over this forum. Is your point that a fox killed by trapper is good whereas a fox killed by a coyote is bad? 

Mother nature can be very cruel for sure but in my opinion the coyote has a tendency to be more aggressive and non-selective when it comes to killing and I believe they have a significant effect on the fawn population at least in this area.

 I have lived at this location for 23+years and 2019 was the first year I never saw a fawn the entire summer. I have numerous pictures of coyotes on trail cams behind my house and it is becoming evident they are becoming more numerous and  bold in their travels.  Their numbers have grown and a coyote by itself is usually not a big deal but when they start running and hunting in groups I think they are less selective when it comes to their prey and their kills become victims of opportunity instead of kills for food.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Steve D

[Nomad]

18 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Shooting coyotes incidentally while deer hunting does nothing at all.

It makes me smile , I got one  with my .270 at a bit over 100 yards on a flat out run ! That’s something !!

I try to forget I missed him while he was stalking some turkeys at 35-40 yards though ..... 

 

[left field]

@Rattler 

I literally have no idea what you're talking about in your last response. Are you saying that coyotes will begin to feed on a deer while its still alive but not a mouse? As for the trapper comment, again ... what? What am I questioning? That coyotes kill and eat deer? Seriously?

@Steve D

I think "less selective" is better termed "opportunistic." Like most omni-carnivores, they get food where and when it presents. Some of the studies suggest that when they have an adequate supply of small game they stick with that. Deer killing is hard and dangerous work. Fawns are probably easier.

There may be an dip in your localized fawn population, but the bigger question was overall coyote impact on overall deer population in the NE and the studies show there's effectively none in regards to sustainability. 

Your contest comment was interesting. Do you think there's a group of contestants that think they're doing their bit to help the local deer/turkey population? If not, my mistake.

[Rattler]

I was asking what other predator in NY eats a deer when it's still alive?  Not what other predator eats it's prey alive.

I was saying we are here because you thought I was making this stuff up.

Don't take things here so seriously.

 

 

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, left field said:

There may be an dip in your localized fawn population, but the bigger question was overall coyote impact on overall deer population in the NE and the studies show there's effectively none in regards to sustainability. 

 

[left field]

@Rattler 

You're backtracking. What you said was, "Most other predators kill the prey before eating it," as if to imply that coyotes were generally assholes. 

If by "seriously" you mean personal or mad, you couldn't be farther from the truth. But I like to get my facts straight and educate myself a little before I form an opinion. As all I have from you are words, I look at those seriously. 

My offer to meet you and other Delaware County guys for a beer at Wayside stands. You say when and If I'm up, I'm there. I'll be wearing my awesome three wolf shirt. 

@SteveD

Thats interesting and I'd like to look closer at it but I believe that info was based on three states: Alabama, Georgia andSouth Carolina, very different landscapes than NY.

Did you see the second article on the QDMA site?

https://www.qdma.com/born-with-one-hoof-in-the-grave-fawns-die-even-without-predators/

Their bolded text:

Quote

Our findings suggest that predators may simply be removing the “doomed surplus” – the individuals that would have died regardless of predator intervention.

 

[Rattler]

14 minutes ago, left field said:

@Rattler 

You're backtracking. What you said was, "Most other predators kill the prey before eating it," as if to imply that coyotes were generally assholes. 

If by "seriously" you mean personal or mad, you couldn't be farther from the truth. But I like to get my facts straight and educate myself a little before I form an opinion. As all I have from you are words, I look at those seriously. 

My offer to meet you and other Delaware County guys for a beer at Wayside stands. You say when and If I'm up, I'm there. I'll be wearing my awesome three wolf shirt.

Hey I work 6 different sites at a time on this laptop and don't always take the time to see how what I type will be interpreted by the readee.  Seems to mean what I want it to mean when I send it.  Be that as it may, where is Wayside?  I must've missed your offer.  I'm tied up on weekends though, but Wednesday and Tursday nights are good.  I'll wear this.  LOL!

Edited February 8, 2020 by Rattler

[johnplav]

1 hour ago, left field said:

 

 

 

 

Those are clearly Coywolves! 

[Curmudgeon]

7 hours ago, airedale said:

They are typical western Coyotes.

Airdale - You're the expert. Which of these are coyotes? Anyone else want to guess?

A -

B -

C -

D -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Curmudgeon

[Just Lucky]

How does those who hate coyotes feel about black bears increasing population? I for one have no use for neither but curious what others think.

I think both have a negative effect on deer population in an area.

[Steve D]

13 minutes ago, Just Lucky said:

How does those who hate coyotes feel about black bears increasing population?

I for one do not hate coyotes, black bears, or much of anything. But when they become destructive and more aggressive I thing steps should be taken to reduce the impact they have on others.

[Dinsdale]

41 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Airdale - You're the expert. Which of these are coyotes? Anyone else want to guess?

A -

B -

C -

D -

 

 

I got a fair guess at "A" and only because I'm a Africa nut.

Golden Jackal

Its not a Black Backed (I've taken and photographed those, not enough distinct patch of black fur on back, nor is it a side stripped (only see 2 of those ever)

But has a white vertical behind the shoulder common to jackal (good aiming point in low light for behind shoulder) , Big ears, Bright white under muzzle.

I always feel jackal more like Western Coyote in a lighter build and more fox like narrow face.

I think they are actually classified as "Golden Wolves" now.

 

Do I win?

Edited February 8, 2020 by Dinsdale

[Steve D]

3 hours ago, left field said:

Thats interesting and I'd like to look closer at it but I believe that info was based on three states: Alabama, Georgia andSouth Carolina, very different landscapes than NY

Very true but a coyote is a coyote regardless of where they reside. The only difference is they tend to be a little bigger in New York

[Curmudgeon]

24 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

 

I got a fair guess at "A" and only because I'm a Africa nut.

Golden Jackal

Do I win?

You got A right.

[Rattler]

Too many bears are just as big of a problem as too many yotes.  I have, and will, take a bear of decent size when the opportunity presents itself.  And like yote lovers, there's a whole subset of bear lovers out there that make it their life's mission to stop all bear hunting.  I have a great deal of experience with them in NJ.  They created a huge problem in that state and someone died.  That was only rectified when bear hunting was allowed again.  They were brought under control.  Now, another leftist progressive Marxist fascist is Governor of the state and has pandered to the bear lovers by stopping all bear hunting on all but private land.  He did this in direct opposition to his own expert wildlife biologists.  The problems will return and more people will be killed because of it.

[Five Seasons]

On 2/7/2020 at 5:51 PM, Curmudgeon said:

There is a large family near me that kills every coyote they see "for the deer". Ironically, one of them also complains about how much impact the deer are having on his crops. Expecting rational and critical thought when in comes to coyotes is expecting too much. I guess the same could be said for deer.

oh man now that's rich.

I don't get the problem with just admitting you want to shoot coyotes. They're invasive, taking out a few doesn't hurt their population. You don't need to justify it. Why'd you shoot that coyote? Because it's legal and I wanted to should all there needs to be. If you're not for want and waste, skin it out and get it tanned. 

[Five Seasons]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:01 AM, airedale said:

No he is not making it up, that is what pretty much happens., same deal with wolves.

Al

So now these coyotes are just like wolves? 

On 2/8/2020 at 10:16 AM, airedale said:

Rattler as the old saying goes "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!" trying to explain anything to these guys is a waste of time!!

Al

No airedale, the issue is on one side of this discussion is a single persons anecdotal evidence. On the other side you have research study after research study. So I guess you're right, you can lead a horse to water.

Here's another new one for you. Gosh this science stuff is hard.

https://www.themeateater.com/conservation/wildlife-management/study-eastern-whitetails-thrive-despite-coyote-invasion

 

[TreeGuy]

This thread is still going ?

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

No airedale, the issue is on one side of this discussion is a single persons anecdotal evidence. On the other side you have research study after research study. So I guess you're right, you can lead a horse to water.
Here's another new one for you. Gosh this science stuff is hard.
https://www.themeateater.com/conservation/wildlife-management/study-eastern-whitetails-thrive-despite-coyote-invasion
 

But the research did show that there were declines in some small local areas? Which proves anything is possible. I know in our area at one time it was going backwards with numerous packs but after a war for a few years they are back to being just another mouth to feed in nature and the wildlife has came back to good numbers. When one see’s more dogs than other wildlife there are to many dogs.


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[left field]

8 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

This thread is still going ?

At least until fishing season, but I'm betting on early bow.

[Five Seasons]

3 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

But the research did show that there were declines in some small local areas? Which proves anything is possible. I know in our area at one time it was going backwards with numerous packs but after a war for a few years they are back to being just another mouth to feed in nature and the wildlife has came back to good numbers. When one see’s more dogs than other wildlife there are to many dogs.


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I would never say anything is impossible. My only goal in these 12 pages has been to educate on some misconceptions. I'm a deer and amateur coyote hunter. I have no horse in this race. Just simply feel that an educated outdoorsman is a better outdoorsman and a stronger advocate against the anti's. 

[TreeGuy]

At least until fishing season, but I'm betting on early bow.

If only it would stay cold, it would be fishing season

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[Curmudgeon]

4 hours ago, Belo said:

oh man now that's rich.

I don't get the problem with just admitting you want to shoot coyotes. They're invasive, taking out a few doesn't hurt their population. You don't need to justify it. Why'd you shoot that coyote? Because it's legal and I wanted to should all there needs to be. If you're not for want and waste, skin it out and get it tanned. 

Belo -

To quote Mrs. C, "STOP MAKING SENSE!"