Contest Shut Down By Antis

[steve863]

Below is Belo on Phade's knee for being passive and non-active.   The other disagreeable forum members are off to the side waiting for their turn on his knobby knee. 

 

 

[Steve D]

12 minutes ago, Belo said:

by some people's definition, your passive non-active view and opinion of the topic makes you an anti.

So be it...….Maybe I need to buy a Tee Shirt but I don't believe I fall under the scope of the definition:

"Opposition to hunting is espoused by people or groups who object to the practice of hunting, often seeking anti-hunting legislation and sometimes taking on acts of civil disobedience, such as hunt sabotage"

[left field]

Last picture aside, this is one of the more interesting conversations here and what the huntingny forum does so much better than many others.  

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, left field said:

Last picture aside, this is one of the more interesting conversations here and what the huntingny forum does so much better than many others.  

 

I agree. It's always good to get a gut check on what you believe and how it effects or influences others. There has been some really good threads over the years I have been here but it's usually only good for about 5 pages. Then there will be a downward spiral...lol

[The_Real_TCIII]

42 minutes ago, Belo said:

I've been an anti-hunter the moment I joined this forum and wadge my crusade against the crossbow 

 

speaking of, where's doc been?

Im anti x-bow too but not actively fighting it, whatever happens happens. I know its coming eventually. AND NOW YOUVE OUTED ME!

Edited January 30, 2020 by The_Real_TCIII

[phade]

The cost of inaction is great IMO. If some people think my views are extreme or ignorant, so be it. I'm OK with that. At the very least I've been able to get people to discourse more on a subject they otherwise would have admittedly been on the sidelines on.

[moog5050]

8 minutes ago, phade said:

The cost of inaction is great IMO.

Other than commenting on this thread, I would be curious to know what action, if any, was taken by anyone on the forum regarding this particular contest, either in support or opposition of it.  Not throwing stones as I am honestly curious since many have strong views.  Maybe its stated somewhere and I missed it.

[Rattler]

46 minutes ago, Belo said:

I haven't seen a member in this topic come out against the tournament. In fact I support it. Why this turned 3 pages is because some members stated it wasn't their kinda thing and were then tossed in the bucket with anti's. 

I freaking hunt and eat squirrel for God's sake. I've shot and killed just about every legal animal in this state besides a blackbear and that's just because I've failed the last 3 years trying that. To call me an anti is just dumb.

Not sure what you're talking about here Belo.  I didn't call you an anti and never intended to.  Where are you getting that from the post I wrote?

 

[Rattler]

13 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Other than commenting on this thread, I would be curious to know what action, if any, was taken by anyone on the forum regarding this particular contest, either in support or opposition of it.  Not throwing stones as I am honestly curious since many have strong views.  Maybe its stated somewhere and I missed it.

Here in Delaware County, many of us have been very active in this issue, writing letters to local papers, to the elected officials of Hancock NY, to the DEC, posting on internet forums, working with the FD and seeking support from as many businesses as possible.  We also sought out an alternative sponsor for the hunt and got one quickly.  Notice how the anti's didn't try to attack the hunt after it was no longer in the public domain.

The hunt wasn't stopped, the money was earned, the prizes will be awarded, the FD donation will be made and nothing is different other than the FD was removed from it.

To me that is a story of success.  However, the media and the anti's are spinning it as a loss for hunting.

Like I said in the prior post, the side that has the most support in this fight is going to win.  Support the hunt.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

18 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Other than commenting on this thread, I would be curious to know what action, if any, was taken by anyone on the forum regarding this particular contest, either in support or opposition of it.  Not throwing stones as I am honestly curious since many have strong views.  Maybe its stated somewhere and I missed it.

Honestly on this contest, nothing. I have been out of the loop on may topics since about Christmas. I didn't even know about it until this thread. I did sent the Holley Fire Dept donations two years that they had their contest since I couldn't get up there to take part but that was a few years back. I don't even think they have it anymore becasue of the opposition and fighting the lawsuits

[moog5050]

2 minutes ago, Rattler said:

Here in Delaware County, many of us have been very active in this issue, writing letters to local papers, to the elected officials of Hancock NY, to the DEC, posting on internet forums, working with the FD and seeking support from as many businesses as possible.  We also sought out an alternative sponsor for the hunt and got one quickly.  Notice how the anti's didn't try to attack the hunt after it was no longer in the public domain.

The hunt wasn't stopped, the money was earned, the prizes will be awarded, the FD donation will be made and nothing is different other than the FD was removed from it.

To me that is a story of success.  However, the media and the anti's are spinning it as a loss for hunting.

Like I said in the prior post, the side that has the most support in this fight is going to win.  Support the hunt.

That is definitely active support.  Again, not pointing fingers as I have no problem with the contest but did nothing affirmative to support it.  Just curious what others did.

[left field]

So ultimately, the opposition didn't shut it down. They simply delayed it for a bit but the event went on.

How is the media spinning it otherwise? Which media?

Edited January 30, 2020 by left field

[phade]

I supplied feedback to the Hancock mayor based on open requests for ideas about hunting related tourism and then the subsequent decision to shutter a major funding source via the hunt. The area has ample public land and the ask surrounded how to encourage its use with money being generated for the local community hosting the hunters. Interestingly I supplied the first feedback after the ask and before the cancellation. The second came after and how that public optic might hurt in more ways than one - the hunt and the ask for people to come to the area and use the public lands and support the community.

The mayor received more than 100 responses before the hunt topic even came to be. The gap between the mayor's ask and the coyote hunt was around 6-8 weeks if I remember right.

[phade]

3 minutes ago, left field said:

So ultimately, the opposition didn't shut it down. They simply delayed it for a bit but the event went on.

How is the media spinning it otherwise? Which media?

Mayor shut the FD event down. 

Hunters got together and had the local federation pick it up since the mayor had no control over it. They established a different hunt but are donating the funds to the FD.

So ultimately the event was shuttered and another one put together because of action.

[Rattler]

5 minutes ago, left field said:

So ultimately, the opposition didn't shut it down. They simply delayed it for a bit but the event went on.

How is the media spinning it otherwise? Which media?

The news media that reported on the demand to stop the hunt, stopped reporting on the event as soon as the FD cancelled the hunt and began a huge celebration among the anti community.  The anti's forums and print media lauded their success without mentioning the hunt went on.  I'll bet many of the 20,000 who signed that petition still don't know the hunt went on.  But they are all fired up to attack their next victim with the energy of winners.

[TreeGuy]

That is definitely active support.  Again, not pointing fingers as I have no problem with the contest but did nothing affirmative to support it.  Just curious what others did.

YOUR the problem.

There is so many BOLD statements here. Stand United or fall divided. Instead of judging fellow hunters, try asking for help. Calling people out on what YOUR opinion is, HAS gotten some "off the sidelines", but for what purpose ? To squabble about acting on it, or not acting on it !? To prove a point on what your perception of the issue is ? Or to raise awareness for a situation that would/ could require support from those who don't have any skin in the game.

Calling people out and bolding up posts seems like a lefty lib move to me, and THAT is the real problem. Putting forth the effort in all the wrong places.


I have no skin in the game, as this hunt is nowhere near my area, BUT, if asked for support I would absolutely help out. I'd write a letter, sign a petition and even donate to that FD if needed. If WE really gave a crap WE would have handled things differently.

So, after all the back and forth, has anyone been inspired to help out "the cause" ? I doubt it. Horribly played.


Phade - I see you have obviously put forth some effort to show us who do nothing that we are the issue, but do you have any suggestions on how we can actually help the situation ? Do you have a petition we can sign or a place to send an email or letter ? What did you do to help the cause ? Can you share that so others have a clear direction on how to help ?

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[Marion]

YOU'RE the problem.

There is so many BOLD statements here. Stand United or fall divided. Instead of judging fellow hunters, try asking for help. Calling people out on what YOUR opinion is, HAS gotten some "off the sidelines", but for what purpose ? To squabble about acting on it, or not acting on it !? To prove a point on what your perception of the issue is ? Or to raise awareness for a situation that would/ could require support from those who don't have any skin in the game.

Calling people out and bolding up posts seems like a lefty lib move to me, and THAT is the real problem. Putting forth the effort in all the wrong places.


I have no skin in the game, as this hunt is nowhere near my area, BUT, if asked for support I would absolutely help out. I'd write a letter, sign a petition and even donate to that FD if needed. If WE really gave a crap WE would have handled things differently.

So, after all the back and forth, has anyone been inspired to help out "the cause" ? I doubt it. Horribly played.


Phade - I see you have obviously put forth some effort to show us who do nothing that we are the issue, but do you have any suggestions on how we can actually help the situation ? Do you have a petition we can sign or a place to send an email or letter ? What did you do to help the cause ? Can you share that so others have a clear direction on how to help ?

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Fixed it for ya

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[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I agree. It's always good to get a gut check on what you believe and how it effects or influences others. There has been some really good threads over the years I have been here but it's usually only good for about 5 pages. Then there will be a downward spiral...lol

well stormy is gone, so maybe there's a chance we make it to 5 and keep our civility haha

1 hour ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Im anti x-bow too but not actively fighting it, whatever happens happens. I know its coming eventually. AND NOW YOUVE OUTED ME!

I'm the same. Stopped actively fighting about 3 or 4 years ago. But I do not support it. that is one stance I've been clear on haha

[NFA-ADK]

Why support it?  It helps WILDLIFE!  Killing the top predator allows all the little game animals we love to hunt, others love to view to thrive and expand.  Tell that to your anti's. 

The whole "If you kill them they will only breed more." concept is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, humans have wiped out entire populations literally and can still do it.  With the exception of insects there is not a population we could not wipe out if we really wanted to.  

I am not that into contests when talking about hunting game yet have no objections to them or if they fall by the wayside.  I do feel that they encourage us to get out and participate and if it stopped would not cause hunting to stop.  I do hate the anti's and have stated that I would stand with them on deer population controlled by Government, simply put they (big brother) are not an effective tool for population control.  IMO

I wear my camo hat everyday (In circles where anti's thrive.) and I am willing to debate hunting with any anti who is willing to have a normal conversation.  I never hide my deer and always have them on the outside of the truck when transporting and drive real slow so everyone can see.  Some will say that gives the anti's more fuel but this is how it has been done for years and I will never hide what I love to do and when I am successful at it.  I promote archery and deer hunting through seminars and have written letters to officials multiple times on a variety of issues. 

What did I do to support this effort, nothing.  Go ahead and beat me down I can take it, lol.  Just because I was not an active supporter for one issues does not make me an anti!  I do agree if you want to support something like this you should put forth the effort to make links to elected officials along with pre-written statements.  This would be a great start for someone who wants to get us to show our support and I would join in with e-mailing elected officials and other things to help the cause.   

 

 

[moog5050]

28 minutes ago, phade said:

I supplied feedback to the Hancock mayor based on open requests for ideas about hunting related tourism and then the subsequent decision to shutter a major funding source via the hunt. The area has ample public land and the ask surrounded how to encourage its use with money being generated for the local community hosting the hunters. Interestingly I supplied the first feedback after the ask and before the cancellation. The second came after and how that public optic might hurt in more ways than one - the hunt and the ask for people to come to the area and use the public lands and support the community.

The mayor received more than 100 responses before the hunt topic even came to be. The gap between the mayor's ask and the coyote hunt was around 6-8 weeks if I remember right.

Sorry, not following Brad.  You responded to open request for comments on increasing tourism in Hancock before the whole contest issue came about?

[Five Seasons]

24 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

Why support it?  It helps WILDLIFE!  Killing the top predator allows all the little game animals we love to hunt, others love to view to thrive and expand.  Tell that to your anti's. 

 

the science is a little mixed on that. Certainly it's mixed enough, that you can't definitively state that. While I agree that it helps, it's not as great a factor as you may think. At the end of the day, you should hunt them because you want to and it shouldn't matter. But one hunter should never tell another hunter how to feel (I know you're not doing this, but I want to restate it). 

True predator population control would come from trapping, not hunting and even trapping has shown to have little or no affect over a span of several years. 

Most of these below cite studies and the blogs/articles are a lot easier to digest then linking you to the study

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/game-changers/does-predator-control-really-work-science-behind-hunting-coyotes-and-other/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-killing-coyotes-doesn-rsquo-t-make-livestock-safer/

https://www.fieldandstream.com/predator-control-truth-about-coyotes-vs-deer/

https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/predator-hunting/coyote/shooting-coyotes-save-deer-populations

Edited January 30, 2020 by Belo

[Steve D]

https://nywolf.org/2020/01/ban-coyote-killing-contests-in-new-york-state/

Ban Coyote Killing Contests in New York State

January 15, 2020

Each year thousands of animals, including coyotes, die in cruel wildlife killing competitions held in New York, where contestants compete to shoot the most or biggest animals for cash prizes.

Incentivizing the killing of New York’s coyotes is wrong – it’s both cruel and scientifically unsound as a management tool. 

For more than 100 years, what amounts to an extermination campaign has been waged against coyotes across the United States. However, coyotes are more widespread now than ever, and have even have expanded their range to include many cities.

The best available science shows coexisting with predator animals – rather than killing them – is the most effective management strategy, yet many states often do little to halt barbaric killing contests.

New York can be better.

Coyote killing contests have no place in the 21st century, nor do they have a place in New York.

[Rattler]

"For more than 100 years, what amounts to an extermination campaign has been waged against rats across the United States. However, rats are more widespread now than ever, and have even expanded their range to include many cities.

The best available science shows coexisting with vermin animals – rather than killing them – is the most effective management strategy, yet many states often do little to halt barbaric killing."

 

Now, doesn't that one little change expose the stupidity of that quote?

Edited January 30, 2020 by Rattler

[Steve D]

11 minutes ago, Rattler said:

The best available science shows coexisting with vermin animals – rather than killing them – is the most effective management strategy, yet many states often do little to halt barbaric killing."

 

Now, doesn't that one little change expose the stupidity of that quote?

Here is another one that goes along with that thought process and even gets a little more definitive: 

https://arroc.org/stop-wildlife-killing-contests-ny/

Stop Wildlife Killing Contests in New York State

Wildlife killing contests are organized events where participants kill animals for a prize. These contests are legal, no special license is needed to run one, and unless a law specifies otherwise, there are no limits on the total number of animals that may be killed during killing contests.

Wildlife killing contests are generally promoted as fundraisers and bonding opportunities, often conducted in a party-like atmosphere. Whoever kills the heaviest, largest, or greatest number of animals specified per contest wins. Contest prizes are usually large amounts of cash, and some have included assault weapons.

Organizers and participants of killing contests try to keep a low profile to avoid negative publicity. They advertise in special magazines (ie: Varmint Hunter) or by word-of-mouth within hunting ranks. It is virtually impossible to know how many of these events occur each year, or how many animals are killed, maimed, and orphaned because of them. When unwelcome publicity arises, organizers insist they are providing a community service by eradicating the targeted wildlife before they prey on domestic animals or livestock. Yet science concludes that such events do little, if anything, to address concerns about alleged predation or forage competition problems.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Steve D

[Five Seasons]

and just to be clear, my only point posting those articles above was to educate some that hunting contests aimed at predator control is a losing argument. Just do the tournament because you want. Tell them you're selling the hides at least.

 

What to Do, and When

If you are intent on knocking down coyote numbers to boost deer or small game numbers on your land, forget plugging the random predator during deer season and focus on the fawning season. Removing coyotes from the landscape in April or May means there is less time for other coyotes to move in. Most coyote control efforts in sheep country, for instance, take place right before or during the lambing season, for good reason. That’s when it helps reduce livestock loss the most.

Just be prepared to put lots of effort into it. In order to have any impact on coyote numbers, you’ll need to kill upwards of 70 percent of the population. That’s a lot. Few of us have any idea how many coyotes are out there, but the good news is that populations are probably not as high as you think. Whether there is one coyote per square mile or 10, you’ll still need to invest lots of effort into it if you expect the slightest benefit. And you still might not see any noticeable results.

A study in Georgia examined fawn survival and coyote populations in conjunction with coyote removal on two wildlife management areas. The first year, trappers removed an estimated 81 percent of the coyotes from one wildlife management area and a similar number on the other. Fawn survival went up on one area but did not improve on the other. The study’s authors concluded, “coyote control may not achieve management objectives in some areas.”

If you still insist on undertaking some method of control, focus on trapping. Hunting is fun and a skilled hunter can rack up some impressive numbers, but it can’t produce the numbers of coyotes that a trap line can. Traps work 24 hours a day and a good trapper can set dozens in a day. Even the best hunter can’t cover as much territory as a good trapper. There is a reason no scientific study has used hunters instead of trappers.