Lower the legal shooting distance for bow????

[liberty]

I agree with you on over regulation, but this issue isn't just about hunters... it's about making people who don't hunt feel safe in their own home and on their own property... it's about being responsible and considerate to the non-hunting community... and it gives your neighbor (hunter or not) the ability to decide whether or not he wants you hunting closer than 500 ft from his personal property. A "good guy" just doesn't need to be hunting that close to someones home... It might be far more productive to get the definition of an occupied structure changed than to change the distance.

That is the problem. The definition of an occupied or in use structure.

[Doc]

Doc do you really think everyone will be shooting at a house? heck that happens now with gun.hundreds of home shot every year right? if the property is that crowded i doubt they would be hunting there. go in a woods 50 yards an arrow will most likely not go thru the brush/trees without deflection. I feel the amout of bad people that will abuse this will far be outnumber by those that will benifit. its time the "good guys" stop being restrained by the legislation meant to regulate the few.. if you don't believe this you can turn in your guns cause they might be used in a crime....

Let's understand that we are not talking about a law that regulates how close to a structure we can hunt. We are talking about modifying a law that regulates how close to a neighboring structure that we can release an arrow whether that be hunting or target practice. Let's also understand that this law will regulate the back-yard target shooter as well. And that legal modification will apply in all neighborhoods regardless of lot size. In many suburbs the lot sizes may be very close to that 50 yard limit. Also it must be pointed out that the change in law will apply to all ages including the group of neighborhood kids who may or may not understand or care about the sensitivities of their neighbors ..... lol.

Do I feel that there may be disputes involving extremely unsafe situations caused by this kind of a change ...... you bet. If I lived in one of these sub-divisions, and I walked out in my back yard and found someone drawing down on some foam target at 50 yards with me all of a sudden behind it, I would be the first to be looking for somebody to choke. Fortunately I don't live in a situation where that could happen but there are a pile of people who do.

I do honestly believe that most people do have the consideration and responsible attitudes so that the world of suburbia will not instantly turn into a hail of arrows flying into people's houses and yards. But I am also fully aware that jerks exist in this world, and neighbors are not always so concerned about safety or concerns of their neighbors. I also believe that it would just be a matter of time before we would be reading about somebody being stuck with an arrow because of this change. So I guess I am against revising the law to legalize the kind of carelessness and lack of responsibility that you just know would happen. I also want to maintain some legal recourse when a neighbor is put into such a position of unsafe conditions for himself, his family and his property. No one should have to be in a position to be afraid to step into their back yard because their neighbor is an archer. No, we do not all live in conditions where this can become a problem, but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of others who do. All I ask is to think how you would feel if this sort of situation were to happen to you. How would you like to find out that hunters had arranged to change the law so that you had no ability to stop this kind of activity next door. We can't always measure the correctness of a law simply as it relates to our own personal situations.

[Doc]

That is the problem. The definition of an occupied or in use structure.

There is no re-definitions of structures that will ensure that any kind of structure is guaranteed to unoccupied or in use. If a neighbor has a tool shed, there will be some time when he will be in it, approaching it or leaving it.

[phade]

Let's understand that we are not talking about a law that regulates how close to a structure we can hunt. We are talking about modifying a law that regulates how close to a neighboring structure that we can release an arrow whether that be hunting or target practice. Let's also understand that this law will regulate the back-yard target shooter as well. And that legal modification will apply in all neighborhoods regardless of lot size. In many suburbs the lot sizes may be very close to that 50 yard limit. Also it must be pointed out that the change in law will apply to all ages including the group of neighborhood kids who may or may not understand or care about the sensitivities of their neighbors ..... lol.

Do I feel that there may be disputes involving extremely unsafe situations caused by this kind of a change ...... you bet. If I lived in one of these sub-divisions, and I walked out in my back yard and found someone drawing down on some foam target at 50 yards with me all of a sudden behind it, I would be the first to be looking for somebody to choke. Fortunately I don't live in a situation where that could happen but there are a pile of people who do.

I do honestly believe that most people do have the consideration and responsible attitudes so that the world of suburbia will not instantly turn into a hail of arrows flying into people's houses and yards. But I am also fully aware that jerks exist in this world, and neighbors are not always so concerned about safety or concerns of their neighbors. I also believe that it would just be a matter of time before we would be reading about somebody being stuck with an arrow because of this change. So I guess I am against revising the law to legalize the kind of carelessness and lack of responsibility that you just know would happen. I also want to maintain some legal recourse when a neighbor is put into such a position of unsafe conditions for himself, his family and his property. No one should have to be in a position to be afraid to step into their back yard because their neighbor is an archer. No, we do not all live in conditions where this can become a problem, but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of others who do. All I ask is to think how you would feel if this sort of situation were to happen to you. How would you like to find out that hunters had arranged to change the law so that you had no ability to stop this kind of activity next door. We can't always measure the correctness of a law simply as it relates to our own personal situations.

Much of suburbia has discharge laws that supercedes this issue. Most jurisdictions consider a bow a firearm that can be discharged...and if they don't, they typically include it in their "no discharge" or "limited discharge" code.

Edited February 29, 2012 by phade

[Doc]

Much of suburbia has discharge laws that supercedes this issue. Most jurisdictions consider a bow a firearm that can be discharged...and if they don't, they typically include it in their "no discharge" or "limited discharge" code.

I suspect that shortening up the legal distance from structures for using a bow will definitely ensure that more and more municipalities enact those no-discharge laws. yet another unintended consequence. You will likely see subrban hunting opportunities diminish.

[G-Man]

To me the thing is people are already under 500' from a building target parcticing. all this will do is make a change so that there isnt a law on the books that just isnt enforced. 166yards almost 2 football fields. When i first started using a bow i use to shoot off my mom's back porch out toward the back of the property over 2000' deep. my aunt lived on one side and the neighbor on the other use to come and watch. but i was in violation even with 125' wide lots. the neighbors 2 doors down on either side could of complained. as could of the 5 across the street even though they never knew i was shooting in the backyard. This decrease in distance removes people who are in no dange and should have no say in what you are doing because your legal. yes there are bad apples but the benifit to the many many more out weighs the few. as for walking into someone shooting and being behind their back stop. wow... you really think there are a lot of idiots out there just shooting away?? next they will increase the gun distance to 1000' and even more people will be in violation just on the property they grew up /live on..

[16. ga hunter]

^{you would be supprised but in alot of places target shooting with a bow is not against the law no matter what the distance}

[nyantler]

I shoot my bow in my back yard which is under the legal shooting distance.. at the moment i have the permission of both neighbors.. if that changes.. I will have to go elsewhere to practice... simple as that... and I'll do it... doesn't mean I have to like it.. but it really isn't that big a deal... I can shoot at the gun club or go stump shooting way behind the house in the woods...

[Doc]

To me the thing is people are already under 500' from a building target parcticing. all this will do is make a change so that there isnt a law on the books that just isnt enforced. 166yards almost 2 football fields. When i first started using a bow i use to shoot off my mom's back porch out toward the back of the property over 2000' deep. my aunt lived on one side and the neighbor on the other use to come and watch. but i was in violation even with 125' wide lots. the neighbors 2 doors down on either side could of complained. as could of the 5 across the street even though they never knew i was shooting in the backyard. This decrease in distance removes people who are in no dange and should have no say in what you are doing because your legal. yes there are bad apples but the benifit to the many many more out weighs the few. as for walking into someone shooting and being behind their back stop. wow... you really think there are a lot of idiots out there just shooting away?? next they will increase the gun distance to 1000' and even more people will be in violation just on the property they grew up /live on..

Yes, I can picture a parcel shaped like an airplane landing strip that if the shooting were done in the proper direction, it would be very safe. On the other hand, I have seen the average suburban lot that 99.99% of the suburbanites live on. Many of these don't even have fences between them. I will flat-out state that there is no way that any of these could be shooting any kind of weapon at 50 yards and be safe.I am waiting to have anyone reply to the very likely scenarios that I have laid out in previous replies. It is inconceivable to me that anyone could support a law change that would legalize that sort of risk even if we are not personally effected. I understand that many of us have that whole scenario covered by virtue of the size or shape of our property, but the law covers more people than just ourselves. Unless somebody can show me some proposed wording that will address the obvious safety concerns of so many properties, there's no way that I would ever support such a change.

[liberty]

Yes, I can picture a parcel shaped like an airplane landing strip that if the shooting were done in the proper direction, it would be very safe. On the other hand, I have seen the average suburban lot that 99.99% of the suburbanites live on. Many of these don't even have fences between them. I will flat-out state that there is no way that any of these could be shooting any kind of weapon at 50 yards and be safe.I am waiting to have anyone reply to the very likely scenarios that I have laid out in previous replies. It is inconceivable to me that anyone could support a law change that would legalize that sort of risk even if we are not personally effected. I understand that many of us have that whole scenario covered by virtue of the size or shape of our property, but the law covers more people than just ourselves. Unless somebody can show me some proposed wording that will address the obvious safety concerns of so many properties, there's no way that I would ever support such a change.

We can go back and forth all day over scenarios. You will never be conviced no matter what someone says. Boths sides make valid arguements. The botton line is when the state changes the law time will tell. NJ is working out just fine.

[fasteddie]

It would be nice if someone who has had some experience shooting deer for the town of Irondequoit could share thier experience .

Irondequoit used to spend several thousand dollars a year to have deer culled from Durand Eastman Park . They paid off duty cops to do this with a Bait and Shoot Program . Several years ago , the town started a project allowing Certified Bow Hunters to shoot deer in the Village . There were specific hours and properties that the archers were allowed to hunt . Several of these were in back yards and the culling was done without any incidents but it was closely monitored . I believe the Town still does this as far as I know .

The close monitoring might be what is keeping it safe though . I don't know anyone who is experiencing this hunting though .

[Pistol Pete]

shooting a deer that lives in the city is like shooting a cow, get out in the woods for a real hunt!

[fasteddie]

shooting a deer that lives in the city is like shooting a cow, get out in the woods for a real hunt!

The point of my post is the close proximity of the shooting and the fact that it is used to cull deer and save the Town / Village money ! Duh !

I wonder how the folks that live near those properties feel about somone shooting near their homes . I believe it is done during school hours so the kids aren't home .

[SteveB]

I will flat-out state that there is no way that any of these could be shooting any kind of weapon at 50 yards and be safe.

The only way it could be considered close to acceptable is if the shooter places the target AGAINST their own house.

Wonder how many suburbanite shooters do or are willing to do this?

[G-Man]

Fasteddie has a valid point, these are not hunts as many would like to think they are, but population control must be done. i'd rather have someone who has purchased a licence do the shooting than pay to have it done by someone else. Doc, And if a property is surrounded with homes to be in that kind of a danger they could easily be arrested for reckless endangerment. there are laws on the books that already cover this. lowering the distance and having more regs put in to cover safety would be redundant. get rid of the distance that is seldom enforced and put a good reasonable distance in place to help control the population and cost of deer carcass removal.. Yes the bait and shoot programs get charged to donate to a food bank, so your paying someone to remove deer you can yourself, and then paying for processsing to give it to someone else.. guess what that means more tax dollars being spent foolishly. Even in non hunting areas your tax dollars pay to have the road kill haulled away and disposed of. I rather a hunter who wants the game take it at no cost to me

[Doc]

Fasteddie has a valid point, these are not hunts as many would like to think they are, but population control must be done. i'd rather have someone who has purchased a licence do the shooting than pay to have it done by someone else. Doc, And if a property is surrounded with homes to be in that kind of a danger they could easily be arrested for reckless endangerment. there are laws on the books that already cover this. lowering the distance and having more regs put in to cover safety would be redundant. get rid of the distance that is seldom enforced and put a good reasonable distance in place to help control the population and cost of deer carcass removal.. Yes the bait and shoot programs get charged to donate to a food bank, so your paying someone to remove deer you can yourself, and then paying for processsing to give it to someone else.. guess what that means more tax dollars being spent foolishly. Even in non hunting areas your tax dollars pay to have the road kill haulled away and disposed of. I rather a hunter who wants the game take it at no cost to me

I'm not sure what kinds of legal hoops one has to jump through to have someone arrested for reckless endangerment, but I'm sure it is a much more serious level of offense than violating a firearms proximity law. However, the shooting proximity law is already on the books, and in terms of archery equipment seems quite adequate. The changes to that law that I have heard about simply involve slashing the distance. I have heard nothing about removing the law and letting some other category of law serve the purpose. So as I understand it the intent is to simply lower the limit for archery shooting and let the consequences fall where they may.

As far as the Irondequoit bowhunting control, I'm afraid that the newspapers left out most of the details of the extent of restrictions that are placed on participating bowhunters, so I have no idea as to exactly how those hunts are conducted. But I believe I heard that the bowhunters used are specially qualified by the authorities and are nothing like the back-yard target shooter who props up a foam target and starts firing away. I don't believe that the Irondequoit hunt is thrown open to the general public for uncontrolled participation.

[WNYBuckHunter]

shooting a deer that lives in the city is like shooting a cow, get out in the woods for a real hunt!

Care to put your money where your mouth is and give it a shot? Pm me and ill give you a spot to get started in.

[Doc]

I've got a feeling that deer are pretty tough no matter where you might find them. Unless of course you are talking about my front yard around this time of year .... lol.

[Pistol Pete]

My sister in law lives in NJ has 6&7 pointers walking between houses I could shoot from the porch. They have no fear of dogs kids or people this is not how wild deer live! If I had to hunt like that I would go fishing,Hey if that's your bag go for it!!!!

Edited March 2, 2012 by Pistol Pete

[WNYBuckHunter]

Like i said there pistol pete, i have a spot i can line ya up with, just outside the city of Rochester limits. Ill even let you borrow my climber and wont hunt while you are there. Its bow only with a fair number of deer and sits between ag, commercial and a large residential area. Some decent bucks in there as well. I guarantee its nothing like what you are tring to portray.

[Geno C]

Like i said there pistol pete, i have a spot i can line ya up with, just outside the city of Rochester limits. Ill even let you borrow my climber and wont hunt while you are there. Its bow only with a fair number of deer and sits between ag, commercial and a large residential area. Some decent bucks in there as well. I guarantee its nothing like what you are tring to portray.

he seems to have a close minded statement WNY...

just because hunting near houses where deer are not as timid does not mean its not equally as hard closing the gap on a deer. IMO in cases like that natural funnels between houses can give an added advantage along with deer being used to human scent BUT if humans seldom venture into the woods it does not mean a deer can not pick out a scent that USUALLY is seldom present. Its a give or take, each spot varies from one to another but for he most part i dont find city hunting to be any different AND OR less of hunting then "big woods".

[Ford]

I guess every area is different. I do not bow hunt in suburban areas, so do not know much about how deer act in the woods as opposed to in someones yard. (besides not ever seeing deer that did not just take off when I was in the woods next to houses.)

But I used to squirrel hunt behind a friends house. They would not be afraid of you in the yard at all. One step into the woods, and those same squirrels had a whole different attitude on seeing a person.

Never really understood that, and have always wondered why. I guess they know somehow you do not belong there?

[Doc]

I don't believe that deer change their intelligence just because they are in a suburban habitat. But, I have some additional requirements of my hunting that other people probably don't as regards the ambiance of the hunt. I try to make the hunt contain some illusion of wildness. That's just a quirk that I personally have, and I know it isn't necessarily something that others require or necessarily should be concerned with. I have no problem with that. Sometimes I do worry about consequences after the shot when hunts are conducted in areas of tight population. I guess I can imagine some nasty potential interactions with angry neighbors if my shot deer were to make it onto the property of somebody that really doesn't care to be forced into my hunting adventure .... lol.

So anyway, maybe it is some of that that is creeping into my opinion about chopping the bow distance down to 50 yards. I guess I just don't like hunting around people.....lol.

[liberty]

Whoever keeps saying that "suburban hunting" is not hunting is foolish at best. I am a "Big Woods" hunter like the West Canada Lakes Wilderness Area in the Adirondacks where the trees are large and the woods are endless. I am also a suburban hunter. They both have a different set of challenges. Just because you do not hunt like someone else does not make it wrong. Hunting is different and varied like everything else in life. Some of us are not as fortunate as others to have large tracts of land readily accessible. I think that if you oppose a law that will strengthen hunting opportunities is just egoistic.

[nyantler]

I guess this kind of comes down to your definition of "hunting"... mine is definitely not slithering around neighborhood homes shooting deer foraging on house plants... if I can see a house or hear the kids waiting for the school bus.. I'm way too close to civilization... I suppose for those of you the long to hunt on your cul-de-sac or set up a blind near the neighbors swingset... maybe there needs to be a law change... but in fairness I realize that is not what we're talking about here really..

I think we're talking about some of you that purchased a home on 5 acres, with a few acres of woods behind the house, with the intent of having a forever bowhunting spot directly behind the house... and you were always fine with the 500' rule until the day you realized that nothing is forever... now you want NYS to rethink a long time law to accomodate your inconvenience even though NYS did absolutely nothing to create your new hunting problem...