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Region 8 permits

Doc

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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Looking at the permit allocations for Region 8, it looks like a bunch of the WMUs are going to see a cut. In fact 8N will be about half of the permits that we had last year.

8A, 8H, 8J, 8M, 8N, 8P, 8T, 8W, 8X, 8Y are all having cuts from last year's numbers. I'm assuming that the DEC is in affect saying that there are deer shortages (under target or getting that way) in those WMUs. I know it's kind of hard to really say, but do you guys who hunt there agree with that assessment?

Doc

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wztirem Newbie

wztirem

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You forgot to mention that brighter minds posted in cubicles sitting in front of computers pouring over reams of data based upon sound scientific models make these decisions.

Oops, sorry, time time take my anti-cynicism/sarcasm medication.

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wztirem Newbie

wztirem

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Looking at the permit allocations for Region 8, it looks like a bunch of the WMUs are going to see a cut. In fact 8N will be about half of the permits that we had last year.

8A, 8H, 8J, 8M, 8N, 8P, 8T, 8W, 8X, 8Y are all having cuts from last year's numbers. I'm assuming that the DEC is in affect saying that there are deer shortages (under target or getting that way) in those WMUs. I know it's kind of hard to really say, but do you guys who hunt there agree with that assessment?

Doc

OK, Meds have kicked in. Cutting DMP's by half is troubling in so much it indicates poor management practices on the part of the DEC. One would think that after all these years the biologists would only need to tweak the amount of allotted permits rather than make such drastic cuts in the number of permits to be issued. On the other hand was there an inordinate number of does/BB's killed last year(for various reasons)?

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nyslowhand Enthusiast

nyslowhand

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So what correlation is the DEC's decrease in DMPs and the recent post "Deer Hunting & Deer Hunting Trends"

The report (2000/2001) said the continual decrease in hunters will make manageable deer populations difficult.

Has the number of hunters increased since 2000 or have we been taking more deer? I'm thinking, neither!

Do they think there has been an increase in license sales in the zones that DMPs are being reduced?

Anyone within DEC listening, what's up!!

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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Funny thing, 8N shows the reduced number of permits but on the DEC site they also show a high percentage for residents to get both of there permits in 8N.  Strange, last year they had twice as many permits and I only got one.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30409.html

I noticed that too. Makes me a bit curious as to how that could be. It must be that last year the odds were super - super - dsuper high ... lol. And yet you got turned down for the second one. I'll tell you, if anyone can make any sense out of that wacky "permit draw", I wish they would explain it to me. Everytime I think about it I keep coming up with questions as to how they handle all the variations in landowner preferences, preferance points, and the ever changing pool of names that they are drawing from as the sales period advances.

Whatever it is that caused them to come up with this knee-jerk reaction in 8N of cutting the permits in half does tells me that they are trying to make up for some perceived screw-up or shortcoming in their statistical management schemes. You know .... the ones that have been audited by some statistical gurus and found to be perfect.....lol. Oh there I go again.

By the way, judging only from what I have seen in my few hundred acres of 8N hunting land, I think they had it right last year. I don't see any sign of a diminished herd size here.

Doc

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Chevy Newbie

Chevy

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Things in the 8W / 8T area have been pretty rough for quite a few years due to the liberal DMP's for consecutive years. Last year was especially bad and now the DEC gets the point. So bad our hunting cabin probably won't see much use as I have access to other areas DEC have not depleated. Too bad.

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furman_ny Newbie

furman_ny

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If I remember correctly, the harvest was slightly lower than normal ;last season, mostly due to less than ideal conditions on the first weekend of gun season I remember the DEC reporting as a big reason. I believe I read on another post the DEC goes by last year as a major factor to this years permits, concluding if a high number of tags were filled then population too high and they give out more next season, if % of permits filled is low, then they cut permits. Did they forget about their own reasoning on why harvest %s on DMPs were low last year? Do they think all these deer died of natural causes? I dont get it. I live right on border of Regions 8 & 9, everyone you talk to that pays attention says same thing--theres deer

all over the place, but somehow all WMUs near me are cut in permits--confusing to say the least. Probably be another low harvest, an easy winter, and in a knee jerk reaction they will hand out permits like candy next year. If they think the doe/deer population is lower in this WMU, well they are gettin their numbers somehow that is beyond me, I think they are just plain wrong.

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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If I remember correctly, the harvest was slightly lower than normal ;last season, mostly due to less than ideal conditions on the first weekend of gun season I remember the DEC reporting as a big reason. I believe I read on another post the DEC goes by last year as a major factor to this years permits, concluding if a high number of tags were filled then population too high and they give out more next season, if % of permits filled is low, then they cut permits. Did they forget about their own reasoning on why harvest %s on DMPs were low last year? Do they think all these deer died of natural causes? I dont get it. I live right on border of Regions 8 & 9, everyone you talk to that pays attention says same thing--theres deer

all over the place, but somehow all WMUs near me are cut in permits--confusing to say the least. Probably be another low harvest, an easy winter, and in a knee jerk reaction they will hand out permits like candy next year. If they think the doe/deer population is lower in this WMU, well they are gettin their numbers somehow that is beyond me, I think they are just plain wrong.

I think the criteria of last year's harvest as a means of determining this years permit allocations is also subject to a whole bunch of unofficial "fudge factors". I've seen it all before. Poor weather conditions on opening day, moon phase on opening day, weather extremes from the year before, heavy mast crop, sparce mast crop, high hunter turn-out, low hunter turn-out, not enough snow cover, on and on it all goes, and I have seen each of those qualifiers used before by the DEC (and probably many more that I am just not remembering right now) to justify the final count of permits. So basically, regardless of the size of the harvest, they can still change the numbers to whatever their current mood dictates. So, what's all this talk about the wonderful statistical model that they use that performs the perfect herd management....lol. When it comes right down to it, it appears that all that window-dressing (statistics) is thrown out the window and some form of "gut feel" replaces it all. Some times it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's not a problem because when the hunters all start belly-aching one way or another, the DEC can over-react with their permit numbers and reverse any mistakes and move over to the other extreme. I've noticed that deer populations always seem to go in cycles of too many and then too few and then repeating the cycle all over again. It certainly looks like a reaction and over reaction style of management to me. I don't ever get a sense that there is any pro-active planning actually going on.

Doc

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growalot Newbie

growalot

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Sorry Doc...I'm in 8n and I've been preaching how they were handing out way too many 8N tags for over 3yrs now...and we aren't seeing the #'s we use to...I have been getting an 8X and 3 8N's every year...always got 2 extra in the second draw...incase your wondering...for the wounded ...infected...deer that make it to our place every year...you know the..I shot AT it ..while it was run 50miles an hour across a field...but it didn't " LOOK" hit >:)

Don't say this often...but I think the DEC actually woke up for this one

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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Even a blind squirrell finds an acorn occasionally ...... lol.

I think the assessment of the herd size varies depending on what chunk of 8N you hunt. Heck, I even see big differences according to what part of town I hunt. Also when you start listening to all the comments, you will hear every variation you can imagine. The funny part is that they are probably all correct depending on what piece of property they hunt. So, I try to stay away from commenting on the state of the herd throughout any WMU. Let's face it, I don't hunt a very big part of it. So quite often, it will seem likethey are messing up, and maybe they are or maybe I'm just aren't seeing the bigger picture across the entire WMU. However, that still doesn't keep me from engaging in the favorite pastime of hunters ...... poking at the DEC  ;)

Doc

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flny77 Newbie

flny77

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8n, 8m, and 8p are hurting. Deer population is way down from 10 years ago. I remember herds 20 plus was not unusual, and 40 at dusk in a field was normal. I remember seeing 10 to 15 deer on full day of hunting -mostly young, but at least I knew there were deer in the woods. During the full moons of seasons past, I remember seeing tons of track in the snow and frozen in the mud from nocturnal activity, not so much anymore. In the spring I am noticing more and more fawn parts littering the hedge-lines and brush lines. Drive by a deer processor -empty. Opening day was silent, as was Thanksgiving and the following Saturday. The woods are feeling empty.

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