Is Putin emboldened by weak leadership and appeasement?

[Splitear]

4 minutes ago, Robby said:

Putins own people should take him out.

When he starts threatening nukes, you’ve got to wonder if there aren’t at least a few whispered conversations going on.  

Edited February 27, 2022 by Splitear

[phade]

5 minutes ago, Robby said:

Putins own people should take him out.

That would be best too IMO. But their culture is long and overbearing.

[phade]

11 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

This is a point contended all the time by the right and the Dems don’t seem to dispute it , so I’m inclined to dispute it . However , I refuse to shoot my mouth off about a fact I do not have knowledge of!! I will have to do some research on this to see why they say that we were energy independent under Trump and way more dependent now under Biden . 

The problem lies within crude oil, by product, energy, etc. There isn’t a standard metric that everyone agrees with for the most part.

It gets into an apples to oranges thing.

But the real net is that we still import a tremendous amount today and we did in Trump’s time too. The gap is many conservatives seem to be taking the improved production vs consumption as being independent and that simply isn’t true. We consumed many millions of barrels of oil from Russia and Canada primarily, in Trumps time and this goober’s time.

[Northcountryman]

3 minutes ago, phade said:

The problem lies within crude oil, by product, energy, etc. There isn’t a standard metric that everyone agrees with for the most part.

It gets into an apples to oranges thing.

But the real net is that we still import a tremendous amount today and we did in Trump’s time too. The gap is many conservatives seem to be taking the improved production vs consumption as being independent and that simply isn’t true. We consumed many millions of barrels of oil from Russia and Canada primarily, in Trumps time and this goober’s time.

I like your post but feel compelled to read up on this more to find out why they say we were energy independent under Trump - there must be something to that contention, especially since , like I said , the Dems concede that point . 

[left field]

As I gather in talking to people over the years, the Russians take an attitude of, "screw it" when it comes to politicians and their control over their lives. They recognize that they will never win. Considering their history, that makes sense.

Generally, things under Putin have been good for the average guy. They are making more money, travelling, sending their kids to foreign schools, and there is political stability as long as you stay in your lane. They won't remove him as things stand currently. 

However, when you consider how people here react when the price of gas goes up 20% - civil war -  then you have to consider that affecting the average guy's wallet may very well change things. Whether that will pressure the elite remains to be seen. Puting wields a lot of control and I don't think it's due to his charming personality.

The problem is who moves into that office. Better than Putin? Worse? The tyrant you know or the one you don't?

Coups are ugly at best and lead to massive instability. Coups in nuclear nations ... 

 

6 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

I like your post but feel compelled to read up on this more to find out why they say we were energy independent under Trump - there must be something to that contention, especially since , like I said , the Dems concede that point . 

Read the article I posted.

Edited February 27, 2022 by left field

[phade]

4 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

I like your post but feel compelled to read up on this more to find out why they say we were energy independent under Trump - there must be something to that contention, especially since , like I said , the Dems concede that point . 

This is just Russian imports alone into the US.

Does that make you feel like you’re energy independent? I mean, Trumps years were trending down, but by no means the lowest since the turn of the century.

[Northcountryman]

3 minutes ago, phade said:

This is just Russian imports alone into the US.

Does that make you feel like you’re energy independent? I mean, Trumps years were trending down, but by no means the lowest since the turn of the century.

Line was trending down when Trump was in and now it’s going up - way up . That’s why they’re saying it . Wee we’re heading in the right direction before - now we’re not. Thank you the info

[phade]

9 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Line was trending down when Trump was in and now it’s going up - way up . That’s why they’re saying it . Wee we’re heading in the right direction before - now we’re not. Thank you the info

I guess I’m confused now - trending down is not independent. Nor is that what “they” were saying. They, we’re saying we didn’t rely on other countries for oil any longer - IE independent.

Are we just not going to acknowledge millions of barrels of oil being imported from multiple countries? Why is your point sliding now to trending down vs independent? There is a physical difference. Example is Shoots says we were oil independent under Trump and now we’re buying billions of $ in oil from Russia to fuel the war; that implies we weren’t buying oil from Russia during Trump’s time, when in fact we were still buying substantial billions of dollars of oil. If he intended to say now we’re buying MORE than we did before, that’s one thing, but he didn’t, and I hear that repeatedly from people in my own party. It’s a bad argument. It gives the semblance that people don’t understand we bought oil every single month from Russia for decades.

And by your I mean the collective, not you.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by phade

[Northcountryman]

7 minutes ago, phade said:

I guess I’m confused now - trending down is not independent. Nor is that what “they” were saying. They, we’re saying we didn’t rely on other countries for oil any longer - IE independent.

Are we just not going to acknowledge millions of barrels of oil being imported from multiple countries? Why is your point sliding now to trending down vs independent? There is a physical difference.

And by your I mean the collective, not you.

 

I’m saying that “ they “ are probably exaggerating the energy independence statement thing - not me . However , I will reserve judgement on that until I view data which includes ALL imports and not just Russia . Also , I would like to see export data as well , including domestic “ in country “ production and usage . 

[phade]

1 minute ago, Northcountryman said:

I’m saying that “ they “ are probably exaggerating the energy independence statement thing - not me . However , I will reserve judgement on that until I view data which includes ALL imports and not just Russia . Also , I would like to see export data as well , including domestic “ in country “ production and usage . 

Re-Read Shoots100’s statement I quoted.

He said - we were oil independent under Trump and now we’re buying billions of Russian oil to fund the war. 

He didn’t say we are buying MORE now than under Trump. He alluded to thinking that we were oil independent and magically started buying Russian oil under Biden.

We have bought Russian oil every single month for decades. That is my point. People need to understand what people are fed to them.

[knehrke]

I agree. There's a clear difference between something and nothing. Trending toward independence isn't independence, and clarity is important. 

And it's so easy to simply say that we were moving toward energy independence, and now we're not. 

[Robhuntandfish]

I like your post but feel compelled to read up on this more to find out why they say we were energy independent under Trump - there must be something to that contention, especially since , like I said , the Dems concede that point . 

A great move by Trump was to fill the reserves when oil was so cheap.

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Northcountryman]

2 minutes ago, phade said:

Re-Read Shoots100’s statement I quoted.

He said - we were oil independent under Trump and now we’re buying billions of Russian oil to fund the war. 

He didn’t say we are buying MORE now than under Trump. He alluded to thinking that we were oil independent and magically started buying Russian oil under Biden.

We have bought Russian oil every single month for decades. That is my point. People need to understand what people are fed to them.

I’m not talking about what shoots said ; I’m talking about what I’ve heard on the news which is probably what motivated Shoots to say that in the first place . Like I said , I dline to see ALL of the oil import date before I would make a judgement on the matter - wouldn’t you ? 

[Northcountryman]

4 minutes ago, knehrke said:

I agree. There's a clear difference between something and nothing. Trending toward independence isn't independence, and clarity is important. 

And it's so easy to simply say that we were moving toward energy independence, and now we're not. 

Yes - excellent way to frame it . 

[phade]

18 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

I’m not talking about what shoots said ; I’m talking about what I’ve heard on the news which is probably what motivated Shoots to say that in the first place . Like I said , I dline to see ALL of the oil import date before I would make a judgement on the matter - wouldn’t you ? 

No other data is needed to prove what was eloquently stated above. We are not independent. There is a difference between trending there and being there.

[Northcountryman]

2 minutes ago, phade said:

No other data is needed to prove what was eloquently stated above. We are not independent. There is a difference between trending there and being there.

With all due respect , you do not know for certain unless you have looked at the data-not do I . I will look ; when I get a chance that is  

Edited February 27, 2022 by Northcountryman

[Shoots100]

47 minutes ago, knehrke said:

I agree. There's a clear difference between something and nothing. Trending toward independence isn't independence, and clarity is important. 

And it's so easy to simply say that we were moving toward energy independence, and now we're not. 

From Wikipedia ;

In early December 2018, it was reported that the US had turned into a net exporter of oil "last week", thus breaking nearly 75 continuous years of dependence on foreign oil. Reportedly, the US sold overseas a net of 211,000 barrels a day of crude and refined products such as gasoline and diesel. This, compared to net imports of about three million barrels a day on average previously during 2018 and the prior annual peak of more than 12 million barrels a day during 2005, was confirmed by the US Energy Information Administration.

[phade]

15 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

With all due respect , you do not know for certain unless you have looked at the data-not do I . I will look ; when I get a chance that is  

This doesn’t take data intensive research. It is zero sum.

Independence requires that we do not take in and consume foreign oil and are self-reliant. We do import and consume foreign oil. Period. We are not independent.

We became a net exporter under Trump. Big difference.

 

[phade]

3 minutes ago, Shoots100 said:

From Wikipedia ;

In early December 2018, it was reported that the US had turned into a net exporter of oil "last week", thus breaking nearly 75 continuous years of dependence on foreign oil. Reportedly, the US sold overseas a net of 211,000 barrels a day of crude and refined products such as gasoline and diesel. This, compared to net imports of about three million barrels a day on average previously during 2018 and the prior annual peak of more than 12 million barrels a day during 2005, was confirmed by the US Energy Information Administration.

You must be confused as to oil independence and what net exporter means. Independence means we do not rely on foreign oil, we do. And we did in Trump’s time, too.

Face it, you consumed Russian oil under Trump. Likely every American did.

This really isn’t hard to understand but it sure seems to be tripping people up.

[Shoots100]

Like any business, deals are made with other countries during previous years and breaking those deals would be bad business.

Like dismantling the keystone pipeline and screwing over Canada with one stoke of the pen.

Putin doesn't care about the US oil sales, as he has other countries ready and willing to buy his crude oil.

 

[Northcountryman]

3 minutes ago, phade said:

This doesn’t take data intensive research. It is zero sum.

Independence requires that we do not take in and consume foreign oil and are self-reliant. We do import and consume foreign oil. Period. We are not independent.

We became a net exporter under Trump. Big difference.

 

IDK ,did you just see Shoots post? Whats the harm in verifying facts? Also, Are you sure that youre definition of " energy independence is the agreed upon one? Looks like theirs some subjectivitry there

[Shoots100]

Wikipedia Energy Independence

So were exporting/selling oil, natural gas and diesel fuel to other countries, yet because were honoring deals we made with other countries from previous years, it means were not oil independent ?

 

 

[Northcountryman]

2 minutes ago, phade said:

You must be confused as to oil independence and what net exporter means. Independence means we do not rely on foreign oil, we do. And we did in Trump’s time, too.

Face it, you consumed Russian oil under Trump. Likely every American did.

This really isn’t hard to understand but it sure seems to be tripping people up.

I think  youre Way too personally connected to your contention of this whole "energy independance thing"; hes simply just showing a stat quote , and unless he intentionally distorted the verbiage, thats  just plain fact.  

[phade]

7 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

I think  youre Way too personally connected to your contention of this whole "energy independance thing"; hes simply just showing a stat quote , and unless he intentionally distorted the verbiage, thats  just plain fact.  

LOL. You two have a great day. Let me know how that Russian oil works for you today just like it did in Trump’s era. Because you got it today and then, too. Just plain fact.

[Shoots100]

11 minutes ago, phade said:

LOL. You two have a great day. Let me know how that Russian oil works for you today just like it did in Trump’s era. Because you got it today and then, too. Just plain fact.

So we're to take your opinion over the data provided by the Energy information Administration ?

Did Chef or VH hijack your account  ?

In the end, Putin will do what he wants and doesn't give one robho what the west says.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Shoots100