Paper Road?

[BizCT]

As I mentioned several times, my Dad is very serious about buying a piece of property for hunting either in NY or CT. He has no intentions of building, so land that cannot be built on would be good for him since the taxes would be lower, etc.  That being said, is anybody familiar with "Paper Roads"?

 

My Dad is very interested in the attached 20 acre lot, which comes with 2 other small lots. All 3 are circled in blue. The 2 small lots are tiny but on a paved road that can be used for parking. The red line is how you get from the 2 lots to the 1 large 20 acre that would be used for hunting. The red line I drew follows what the town/county is calling a paper road.

 

Of course, my dad would need to get an attorney involved but I was just wondering if anyone of you had experience with this "paper road" concept.  I will be walking the property Saturday with my dad, the current owner, and his real estate agent assuming no rain. My Dad has already walked the property and talked to the only nearby neighbors who said there are "too many deer". The 100+ acre piece is owned by the county/state and is posted heavily with no access allowed signs, so the 20 acres hunts much bigger since no houses are near it. When my Dad walked the property he saw lots of deer sign, and acorns everywhere.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2015 by Biz-R-OWorld

[mac]

short version from wikipedia: A paper road is a road laid out in a development or subdivision plan. Paper roads may exist only on paper, never having been developed, but they have a legal existence, whether on private or public land.

[mac]

real estate attorney would have the best pros/cons. maybe someone can chime in

[moog5050]

Not a real estate lawyer - but should mean an approved dedicated road that has never been developed.

[steve863]

What's that on the top right of your map?  Are those homes or other structures?  If they are, it would make sense why there are lots of deer around.  That is usually the case in a suburban type setting where there is little hunting access.  I don't know if I'd want to be the landowner of land that is surrounded by development.  Before you know it there will be even more development and it will be far from a pristine private hunting spot.  Yes, you might make a good buck when you sell it to people who want to develop it, but a peaceful hunting spot it probably will NOT be.

 

 

 

 

 

[BizCT]

As of now the 20 acres and the surrounding areas are not buildable so that's why taxes are very low ($2k instead of probably something like $20-$30k). The current owner said that a neighboring landowner many years approached him about needing to grade his property in order for this other guy to build a driveway. The cost was $100k. The landowner of the piece we are looking at of course said no since he didn't want people to build anyway, as he used this land for hunting.

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[steve863]

As of now the 20 acres and the surrounding areas are not buildable so that's why taxes are very low ($2k instead of probably something like $20-$30k). The current owner said that a neighboring landowner many years approached him about needing to grade his property in order for this other guy to build a driveway. The cost was $100k. The landowner of the piece we are looking at of course said no since he didn't want people to build anyway, as he used this land for hunting.

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I guess the key words are AS OF NOW.  Builders would tear down mountains to put up structures that they could sell for top dollar.  I think it all depends on the surrounding location of this property.  If it's in an area that is being built up, it will probably continue to be built up.  People who have kept land to hunt on will eventually sell it when good money is thrown at them.  Money talks as we all know.

[phade]

Sounds promising all the way around in my book. Acreage backing up to non-hunting, seems like parking access to be had. Probably have to deal with trespassers from time to time, but might not necessarily have a ton of hunting pressure to compete with.

 

And if someday it becomes developable or ideal for someone else, cash out.

 

Odd though that the public owned ground isn't open to access. That's unusual at that size. Would be worth determining whether retrieval can be done and just be buddy buddy with the people who would make that call. It'd be great if you could access that ground legally, even if you can't hunt it. That brings in all kinds of tactics some might call questionable, like stacking, but still, there is potential.

Edited September 23, 2015 by phade

[BizCT]

Thanks guys. I'll check the signs when I go Saturday but I believe the non hunting land is watershed property, but not the DEP fishing/hunting type. It's those "no access" watershed signs my dad said.

We've hunted other land in the past that borders no hunting watershed land and we were told to just call and ask for permission to cross the line to retrieve our deer and never had a problem doing so.

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[G-Man]

A paper road may be abandon ones and you would lose your access to the property, as it would either be sold or divided to its center line by surrounding landowners

[mmkay]

I have a similar question, might have been asked by others before. 

 

What’s the deal with Gas company right of ways?  A buddy of mine owns roughly 50 ac of land lock property.  The only access is down an Iroquois Gas right of way (350 ft wide / with dirt road/path).  He told me I could hunt it if I want, but I would need to walk roughly a ½ mile down the right of way to get to it.  I’m not sure if the gas company owns the right of way, or the land owners on either side do.  Tax maps seem to imply the gas company owns the land, but not sure.

 

My friend never had an issue getting to his property, he just walks down the right of way.  But given that I’m not the owner of the 50 ac, and would rarely hunt it with him; I wanted to make sure traveling on right of ways is actually permissible

 

Thanks

[BizCT]

A paper road may be abandon ones and you would lose your access to the property, as it would either be sold or divided to its center line by surrounding landowners

Maybe. But if all landowners who's property borders the paper road have legal access then we would be fine. I believe it's about 300 yards from one parcel we would own to the other. So those 300 yards would be accessible to other adjoining landowners but they can't come on lands where we would hunt.

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[G-Man]

Gas line company owns right of way, unless the 50 acre.parcel has r.o.w. through it your trespassing to get to that property, I see lots of trespassers on the railroad tracks and right of way.good rabbit hunting g in brush along tracks, but it is trespassing and illegal even if it doesn't get enforced..

[ncountry]

Close friend, just down the rd owns 70 acres with an iroquois gas line right of way down the middle of it.. gas company owns a" right of way" . The right to maintain,keep clear,etc...

Friend still retains all of his rights as owner . Except for the obvious exceptions of being able to build or dig there.

[BizCT]

Walked the land today, looks really good. Tons of acorns. The 20 acres is surrounded by 2 other parcels. 1 is 84 acres and owned by watershed, no hunting allowed. The other parcel is 115 and owned by private company that for many many years has been trying to get approval to build condos, again no hunting allowed. So the 20 acres hunts much bigger, and much bigger than the 8 acres of private land we are used to hunting. Saw several fresh buck rubs. The owner is selling because his dad was the hunter who used it for hunting. He showed us pics of several nice bucks taken over the years on this land as well as turkeys and coyotes. He showed us where the turkeys roost, where his dad used to get his deer, etc.

The owner said they almost hit it big a few times. Once a golf course company offered $1M for his property because they were going to buy the 115 piece for $14M but things fell through. Then a cell phone company wanted to build a tower and pay him $3,500 per month to have the tower on his land but that ended up falling through as well. Lastly, the watershed wants to buy 5 of his 20 acres for $25k but he doesn't want to divide it.

I'm thinking my Dad will make an offer but he wants my help as well. Only issue I see is that the first 300 yards is pretty steep uphill. The current owner said they always used atvs on this property for hunting. There is a nice trail so an atv would be a simple fix for my dad, so I think he should factor the price of buying an atv etc into the purchase price.

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Edited September 26, 2015 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Merlot]

Your print reminds me of my days of laying out underground electrical utilities in shared trenching with other utilities in the Ellicottville NY Ski country area. Property landlocked as your property seems to indicate, may not be worth the bother, especially with the possibility of the land being developed further than it appears to be already.

Seems to me like a hassle to purchase and hunt land, then possibly be surrounded by others in the future who may not appreciate that you hunt.   

[BizCT]

I actually disagree with you. Property is not landlocked. We would be getting 3 parcels. Each touch each other and touch the road. I highly doubt anyone will ever build on the states watershed property.

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[bowtech2]

What county is the property in?

[BizCT]

Putnam

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[BizCT]

Dad is probably making an offer today. For around 1/2 the asking price.

[NYBowhunter]

Good luck.

[biggamefish]

Land can be "land locked" by other properties around it but it cannot be sold without a ingress or egress to access the property!

 

Paper road are exactly what the title says they are a road that exists on paper. It is usually dedicated for future access from one development to another etc. Some paper roads never get developed and some are just access for emergency vehicles etc.

Edited October 16, 2015 by biggamefish

[BizCT]

Contract finally signed today. Hopefully closing early next week!

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[BizCT]

Contract finally signed today. Hopefully closing early next week!

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Deal is dead. The title wouldn't show exact acreage unless a survey was done. My Dad requested that the seller pay for this and he wouldn't. Money was returned and the deal is off. I have a feeling this seller will come back to my Dad in a few months, but who knows.

[Water Rat]

I didn't want to send you any bad karma , but I saw the same property listed on Craigslist the last week for $75,000.00 . Maybe he's looking  to start a bidding war.