Deer management draft proposal recently released by the DEC.

When the last big push for everyone to get their lifetime license came about my family was all trying to get me to get mine with them.  I sat back and told them that if you really think this bailout plan to get a quick amount of money to the DEC is the end that they were nuts.  It was in my opinion easily to look into the political agenda of what was coming next.  What I told them would happen is you paid for your lifetime and in short order they will mandate that you need to buy tags to hunt.  They pushed the lifetime,  alot jumped thinking how much money it was saving them in the future and then whammm.  Typical NY politics.  Im sure the lifetime does indeed save money but Im also sure  alot thought that this was the end for them paying out to hunt.  The not so funny part is they know the dedication the majority of hunters have to this sport and know we will pay to play in the woods each and every fall.  Come fall of 2012 however this turns out I will still be in one of my stands opening morning and they know that.  The libs need to go for this state to recover from such antics. 

In a nutshell, we do not trust them to maintain the present fee structure.

In all honesty, I believe the hunting fraternity represents another untapped resource for the State to collect revenue.

As a previous survey on this website showed, many would pay an increse in hunting fees.

Punch is correct, let the DEC know how we feel and WNY is also correct as to not get ones drawers in a bunch.

Perhaps, I as well as others are jumping the gun when it comes to the possibility of increased fees, but the times warrant such a concern and the DEC should be put on notice as to how we feel.

At months end we will know where we stand. Start saving your money. ???

The fees will increase, whether any of you like it or not. We may not be happy about it, but its simple economics. NY is on the less expensive side of things when it comes to hunting anyway. Hunters are in no way an untapped resource to the state. We move ALOT of money right around deer season in equipment, gas, vehicles, ammo, guns, lodging, food, etc etc, all of which we pay tax on. The state knows this and isnt going to do anything that seriously jeopardizes all of that cash flow. There are alot of towns out in the boonies that wouldnt be able to stay solvent without hunters during deer season.

Im just trying to say that over reaction to guesses and what could happen is not going to do anything other than make us look like a bunch of Chicken Littles.

When the last big push for everyone to get their lifetime license came about my family was all trying to get me to get mine with them.  I sat back and told them that if you really think this bailout plan to get a quick amount of money to the DEC is the end that they were nuts.  It was in my opinion easily to look into the political agenda of what was coming next.  What I told them would happen is you paid for your lifetime and in short order they will mandate that you need to buy tags to hunt.  They pushed the lifetime,  alot jumped thinking how much money it was saving them in the future and then whammm.  Typical NY politics.  Im sure the lifetime does indeed save money but Im also sure  alot thought that this was the end for them paying out to hunt.  The not so funny part is they know the dedication the majority of hunters have to this sport and know we will pay to play in the woods each and every fall.  Come fall of 2012 however this turns out I will still be in one of my stands opening morning and they know that.  The libs need to go for this state to recover from such antics.

"Whammm", what? Did you actually read the proposal or are you just basing your reaction upon what people are assuming might happen? The DEC is NOT proposing that you will have to pay for tags, and you currently pay $10 for the possibility of 4 DMPs unless you bought your lifetime before the set date, then you dont pay.

See, this is the kind of misinformation I am talking about.  :

I think you missed the meaning behind my post.  This state does and will find every avenue it can by taking advantage of the people in this state who are dedicated to their hunting passion.  They will find a way to get more money out of us wether you bought a lifetime license or not.  Its is not misinformation it is predicting their next move and if you dont think that they will charge for everyone for tags in the near future then that is your opinion and right to think that.  My opinion is I still see it as a a rather cheap investment to buy your license.  It sort of amazes me how we complain about spending  a 100 bucks or there abouts for a seasons hunting license but then we go out and spend thousands on new guns, bows, camo, scents, stands, blinds etc. etc. 

Im just trying to say that over reaction to guesses and what could happen is not going to do anything other than make us look like a bunch of Chicken Littles.

Or, like another member of the bird family, the osterich, we can all just stick out head in the sand, Not think about potential future implications of current actions, and simply live with whatever surprises come our way. I don't really have a problem with people trying to look ahead a bit and pointing out possible scenarios. Sounds reasonable to me. Frankly, I worry more about those who just shrug their shoulders, open up their wallets and pay whatever the government demands without a word of protest or any sort of forward look as to what is likely coming.

Im just trying to say that over reaction to guesses and what could happen is not going to do anything other than make us look like a bunch of Chicken Littles.

Or, like another member of the bird family, the osterich, we can all just stick out head in the sand, Not think about potential future implications of current actions, and simply live with whatever surprises come our way. I don't really have a problem with people trying to look ahead a bit and pointing out possible scenarios. Sounds reasonable to me. Frankly, I worry more about those who just shrug their shoulders, open up their wallets and pay whatever the government demands without a word of protest or any sort of forward look as to what is likely coming.

Waiting to see what the DEC will propose or saying that people are just making guesses and getting worked up about it isnt sticking my head in the sand. Its not over reacting to something that doesnt exist. Doc, when have you ever known me to stick my head in the sand about real issues that I either agree or dont agree with? I couldnt even tell you off hand how many emails I have sent off to my reps about different issues. I just do not get myself worked up over things that anyone, including myself, is making guesses about. The more a rumor is repeated, regardless of validity, the more people are liable to believe it. I gave two examples of just that happening on this site within the last week or two.

I think you missed the meaning behind my post.  This state does and will find every avenue it can by taking advantage of the people in this state who are dedicated to their hunting passion.  They will find a way to get more money out of us wether you bought a lifetime license or not.  Its is not misinformation it is predicting their next move and if you dont think that they will charge for everyone for tags in the near future then that is your opinion and right to think that.  My opinion is I still see it as a a rather cheap investment to buy your license.  It sort of amazes me how we complain about spending  a 100 bucks or there abouts for a seasons hunting license but then we go out and spend thousands on new guns, bows, camo, scents, stands, blinds etc. etc.

If the state had a record of jacking the license fees up at a fast rate, then I might be able to agree with you, but go back and look at how you worded it. Sounded alot like you were taking what was said by someone and acting as if it was a fact. My last statement about the misinformation was in reference to my previous comments in the thread.

BTW, I agree with your last couple of sentences, and I dont want to pay more for my license, but I do realize that will happen at some point. Im never happy about it, but it is what it is. If the time comes that they want to raise the price unreasonably, Ill be writing my reps in opposition and doing whatever else I can to show my disapproval.

NY Fees aren't bad , even if they were increased ... Take a look at the Fee Schedule for Tennessee ---

http://www.tn.gov/twra/huntlicense.html

I know eddie, and from what I have seen most states are more expensive to hunt in than NY. If I had time, I could compile every state's fees for what would be the equivalent of NY's Super Sportsman plus 4 possible doe permits, unfortunately I dont have that kind of time.

NY Fees aren't bad , even if they were increased ... Take a look at the Fee Schedule for Tennessee ---

http://www.tn.gov/twra/huntlicense.html

1600 for a lifetime license... wew.

It's nice to see that everyone is so content with ever-increasing fees for the splendid game management of NYS. I know how thrilled you all are about the quality of the product we are getting . Frankly, I'm not ready to begin dancing in the streets and convincing the government that I am all mentally primed to accept whatever increases they wish to hand me. But then, I have to remind myself that this is NYS, and it is a tradition here for us to welcome taxation and then call it a bargain.

And also, as a side issue, I'm not sure just what we are saying when we cherry-pick some states that are worse. Is the implication that we should be happy because there are others who are getting screwed worse? Or are we saying that we shouldn't complain until we become the most extreme example across the country?

They also have more opportunity than NY. They have an Elk season.

Their elk season is a lottery draw with a few handfull of tags.

Colorado seasons are more split and confusing then NY with draw tags for almost all

species and weapons. Not unusaual for even residents to not be able to hunt near where they live for game of their choice with their weapon choice for years.

This just goes to show that state by state comparisons are completely irrelevant. We need to be concerned with our state, our conditions, and whether we think we are getting the proper bang for the ever increasing buck. Frankly, from reading almost all of the comments on here about the state of New York game management it doesn't sound like many of us think that we do. So when the DEC says, "I need a raise", just like any other business, I say "show me you deserve it".

You can bet that fees will go up in one scheme or another....seeing that the proposed state budget has wording to raid the conservation fund and the possibility of loosing fed $$$....and sure hunter ##'s will go down....young ppl can't afford the time or $$ and now they want to limit the possibilities at getting deer of THEIR choice ....when they consider every thing..... jobs... taxes and hunting ...why would they not choose to live else where

When you consider what really is happening, it is a wonder that NYS hunters, fishermen and trappers are not staging some sort of protest revolt. Think about it ...... They have raised the fees on our licenses, and then the state makes provisions for raiding the P-R and D-J funds and also stages several slash and burn raids on DEC resources throughout the past couple of years.

So what just happened? Essentially sportsmen and women have been singled out from the rest of the population and taxed by the state government to pay for general state budgetary activity .... not really anything to do with DEC needs or solvency. Did you all get that? ..... we as a group were singled out to help bail out the government. None of that had anything to do with environment, game management or anything to do with nature. And by the way, we are sitting here, apparently contented about all of that, claiming that we are getting a bargain ;D .

We have been tapped and the spigot is open.

For too long the DEC has ignored the impact deer densities have had upon the habitat. Now they have published a five year plan. Well in my opinion it is too little too late. One can only refer to the colored diagrams ( southern zone) which describe the damage deer have done to the habitat.

Clearly, they have had their heads up their you know what for too long a time and now they publish a plan which may perhaps solve all the problems which they have created. Where is the accountability? The onus has been placed ( unfairly) upon the NY hunters and sportsmen groups to bail them out.

Should their plan fail, the fall back position is to blame the blame on the NY hunting fraternity.

As several posters have correctly stated, deer hunters are solely a tool for the DEC to control deer populations. Unfortunately, the DEC has failed miserably to effectively use this tool.

As a result, they have divided the hunting comunity along defined boundaries whereby (excuse the pun), the inmates are running the assylum.

In the end, the hunting fraternity as a whole will pay for their incompetence when it comes to deer management.

Needless to say, I am greatly disappointed!

the problem is the dec controls all the enviromental problems nys faces.. the only way management will be even possible is with a seperate game commission funded by licences and robertson pittman funds. then the focus will be soley on game and fish.. not the coal burning boilers in schools,leaking gas tanks,hogweed problem,ect.. the money goes to dec but doesnt get funneled into game programs only like it should be so we only get bare bones programs and funding.

the problem is the dec controls all the enviromental problems nys faces.. the only way management will be even possible is with a seperate game commission funded by licences and robertson pittman funds. then the focus will be soley on game and fish.. not the coal burning boilers in schools,leaking gas tanks,hogweed problem,ect.. the money goes to dec but doesnt get funneled into game programs only like it should be so we only get bare bones programs and funding.

It's true. The DEC has become super-diluted with a whole diverse range of responsibilities on their plate. That makes it real easy to take hunter's contributions and divert those funds to things that concern the general public rather than just hunters. When you think of the wide variety of environmental things that the DEC has management responsibilities for, It's pretty easy to see how they might be tempted to comandeer some of that money that was supposedly earmarked for fish and game management. And now with the administration dipping into those funds for general state operation, the game management activities take a further hit. I will say that with a fish and game division inside of the DEC, it would be a lot easier to monitor when these kinds of misappropriations of game management funds is occurring.

7S NEEDS ANTLER RESTRICTIONS ASAP.

7S NEEDS ANTLER RESTRICTIONS ASAP.

Why?

Antler restrictions in the 4's (more zones) is good.  2012 has an early muzzleloader in 2012,.... awesome.

Antler restrictions in the 4's (more zones) is good.  2012 has an early muzzleloader in 2012,.... awesome.

Not everywhere on the early ML, just locations that need more herd control.

Antler restrictions in the 4's (more zones) is good.  2012 has an early muzzleloader in 2012,.... awesome.

Not everywhere on the early ML, just locations that need more herd control.

That's another thing that I think is a bit weird. A season that may or may not be there when you want to use it. There is no way of planning for using that season since no one knows until kind of late in the year whether it will be offered or not. Trying to guess the possibilities on antlerless permits is always a pain, but even if you don't get a permit, you can still hunt for a buck. But here is a whole proposed season that may simply vanish at the last minute because of a change in herd size estimate. I guess if you are planning a vacation for that ML season, you had better have some alternative plans .... lol. Pack your bow just in case (If you have one ....lol)

I mentioned this before and no response ...as I said compromise ...I don't have a clue to what the data would show or if perhaps they've already compiled it and that's why they came up with the proposal they have....but as an alternative...saying this will go through one way or another...what do you think of this?

MPO is opening bow Oct 1 then putting 2 gun seasons in the middle of  Oct....even though one (ML) is SUPPOSE to occur only in high density  areas and only for doe...isn't a good plan....They say they are doing  this because bow is inadequate in managing the herd...but...then they  purpose to add gun which as many that have hunted for years can attest  to ...greatly increases nocturnal behavior....Now I ML as well and don't  often get my tags for by Dec I'm tired cold and behind for the  holidays...I would think compiling the data they have for bow  season....they may find adding the early ML the last week of bow season  to perhaps be a better solution...It may show that most bow kills occur  before those last four days...even though the rut is starting it's full  swing...for one thing this may tweek gun hunters that fear the nocturnal  habit and it could increase ML license sales....many guys that bow  hunt...and usually for buck have gotten their buck and are more willing  to ML that last few days before gun for a doe...as far as the youth  hunt.....don't worry about giving them a three day weekend ....2days  during the weekend before gun opener...even though still during the bow  season is more than sufficient...seeing that is a time when buck are up  and moving any ways...I mean the whole intent is to get them hooked  right? Seeing buck up running doe ...how much more exciting is that?