bow season opener on oct 1?

[SteveB]

Like the early mz season deal they tried to broker with the NYS mzloaders 2 or 3 years back?

Not more then a small handful of members knew anything about this until they announced it. Not a single bit of

discussion or feedback from the members outside of the select few at the top. Backed away from it real fast when word got out what they where trying to do.

I left the 2nd time when it become obvious this was SOP and it was impossible to effect any change from within. Attempt any discussion from the status quo or raise even a ripple of dissent and it gets mighty cold quickly. I know dozens of disillusioned ex members - less then a handful of ones that have remained more then a couple years. There is a pattern for those allowing themselves to see it.

[Doc]

Much to everyone's relief, I will not be responsing to every mindless unsubstantiated outburst against the NYB. I know that they made a few enemies with their stance on on crossbows, to the point where people have lost their minds over it .... lol. It's too bad that the crossbow issue is more important than bowhunting issues to some, but with some people that is just the way it is. So if you can't help yourself and feel the need to try to destroy the only bowhunter advocacy organization in the state, knock your socks off (I'm sure the PETA folks appreciate your efforts. they hate organized bowhunters even more than you do). I have adequately replied to these attacks already and won't be repeating myself.

[skyhunter]

I will not be responsing to every mindless unsubstantiated outburst against the NYB.

Thousands of sane hunters share the view that the NYB have elitism at their very core.

For you to call those having this opinion "mindless" exposes the fact that this obvious truth has caused you to lose your head over this issue. Now one could also say that one resorting to such a desparate action in a simple debate is indeed "mindless".

Edited June 7, 2012 by skyhunter

[SteveB]

My post had nothing to do with crossbows. It was about fundamental problems with the way the organization is managed.

Not one of which you came close to addressing. Instead, just accuse anyone who sees these things as major issues that need to be addressed before a mere handful can rightfully claim to be the voice of NY bow hunters of being a PETA, anti hunter . They are voice of a handful and refuse to let any one else in or have input.

[Doc]

My post had nothing to do with crossbows. It was about fundamental problems with the way the organization is managed.

Not one of which you came close to addressing. Instead, just accuse anyone who sees these things as major issues that need to be addressed before a mere handful can rightfully claim to be the voice of NY bow hunters of being a PETA, anti hunter . They are voice of a handful and refuse to let any one else in or have input.

That is your twisted view based on some unfortunate situation that you ran into when you were a member. However, I have already described (if you even bothered to read it) treatment from the president of the organization that showed an extreme interest in the opinion of this rank and file member. That was a personal, time consuming and extreme reaction that I have never experienced from the administration of any organization that I have ever belonged to. So that paints a very different picture than what you are trying to sell. If that is "elitism", I think all such organizations could use a dose of that. I have no idea what kind of unhappy experiences you have had, or even if those experiences might have been brought on by your own attitudes and actions, but I'm here to tell you that what you are describing in no way represents any of the kind of people that I have come in contact with.

[Doc]

Thousands of sane hunters share the view that the NYB have elitism at their very core.

For you to call those having this opinion "mindless" exposes the fact that this obvious truth has caused you to lose your head over this issue. Now one could also say that one resorting to such a desparate action in a simple debate is indeed "mindless".

So, please explain the personal experiences that you have had that has lead you to this "elitism" claim. And by the way, I would love to see documentation on your claim about "Thousands of sane hunters". That's an easy thing to say, but saying it doesn't necessarily make it so, does it?

[phade]

Let. This. Thread. Die.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc, You are discounting others view because of you one good experience but find fault with others poor view of NYB because of their experience. See any flaw there?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Look, if people want to find fault with the NRA, there are plenty right here on this forum that already have done so. And I'm sure you don't have to stretch your memory too much to recall the anti-NRA rhetoric that has been aired here. Everyone who doesn't want to support advocacy organizations seems not to have any real problems with concocting excuses. We've heard them all. NYB was formed to act as an advocacy group for bowhunters. They have there hands full with that. They were not formed to be advocates for crossbows, muzzleloaders, shotguns, rifles, spears, tomahawks or pistols. They are doing what they were formed to do which is 100% focused on bows and arrows and the protection of bowhunting as a viable hunting method.

If anyone has been paying any attention at all in recent years, it is obvious that there are a lot of people who now have their eyes on the bow season and are feverishly doing their best to shoe-horn themselves into those weeks and parcel it up for their own use. Is there anyone who is going to seriously deny that? And yes, the bowhunters have found themselves in a defensive posture trying to fend off aggression from others. And yes, that is exactly what the NYB was formed for, and they are doing their job. For those that have problems with bowhunting as a special season or even a hunting activity, with archery oriented special regulations, I can see where they might want to believe that the NYB positions are unreasonably intransigent. They would rather the NYB simply roll over for any special interest group that comes along and demands their piece of the bow season as they take turns parceling it up. I applaud and respect the NYB for not doing that. They are doing the job that they were formed to do.

You arent hearing what Im saying Doc. NYB has divided the bowhunting community, you know, the same community that they claim to represent. The reason being is because of the elitist type attitude they express, and their decision to take a stance against other bow hunters. The NRA has not done that, they have their detractors, but they did not cause those people to dislike them due to, say, being anti-pistol and only pro-rilfe.

Im sure if NYB was an organization that represented all bowhunting interests, they would not have the problems they now have.

[SteveB]

Doc, You are discounting others view because of you one good experience but find fault with others poor view of NYB because of their experience. See any flaw there?

Thank you for stating the clearly obvious.

Last off topic post on this thread, but always willing to share my direct experiences with my multi year membership should such a thread be started.

[Doc]

Doc, You are discounting others view because of you one good experience but find fault with others poor view of NYB because of their experience. See any flaw there?

What I am saying is that that one experience was so far over the top in terms of soliciting agreement that it is hard to believe that such a response was being anything that would represent a leadership that could be described as elite. This was an action by the head guy of NYB, and I take his actions as representing the leadership of the organization. So it's hard to believe that he singled me out for special treatment. But then, my disagreement was handled in a courteous, polite and respectful manner. Perhaps if I were a more aggressive sort, the debate could have spiraled down into a feud, and maybe I would be the one using the "elite" term and then I could claim mainstream status..... lol. By the way, I have also had dealings with our local regional NYB representative who also is a pretty good guy and extremely interested in discussion of bowhunter matters.

My feeling is that this term "elitism" has been thrown around so much that anytime an organization has policy that is contrary to any individual, that "elite" jargon is the first thing that comes out of their mouth. Most of the time it is a term that is never actually experienced and is mouthed by people who have never even been members of NYB. Those that have had an experience that resulted in a feud (and I will point out that only one so far has actually claimed to have had such an experience) hardly makes a trend. And as I said before, we are only hearing one side of that single account. So, other than this one, where are all the horror stories of exclusion? Doesn't it sound more like one case of sour-grapes?

As far as the elitist comment, I have heard that primarily from those that don't even bowhunt. Read the comments in the NYS Outdoor News, and you will almost always hear that term used along with the words "those bowhunters". These are obviously not bowhunters. We also have the crossbow advocates who threw that term around freely simply because it sounded good when used against discenting opinion. So don't be sucked into the notion that any large amount of people ever really experienced anything close to elitism personally. Question some of these people a little more closely, and you will first of all find out that they may not even be current bowhunters, secondly that they have never had actual membership in the organization and are simply repeating something that they heard or read somewhere, or thirdly that they have had some sort of policy disagreement and are simply upset because the whole organization didn't stop in their tracks and reverse their position just to please them.

There is no way that I will fall in line behind this anti-NYB hysteria until I have witnessed at least a hint of it myself. Except for one person, all I have heard is, So-and so said ...., or I heard that .... or jeez everybody knows that ..... and most of that is from people that wish there never was such a thing as bow season or for whatever reason would just as soon bowhunters give up any form of organization. Frankly, I'll trust my own personal experiences with the organization.

[Chevy]

How is NYB dividing the bowhunting community? I assume you are referring to the xgun debate. Xguns are illegal during archery season in NY and I don't consider them archery equipment. NYB is simply standing up for the bowhunting community against the intrusion of a superior weapon which is more similar to gun then a bow. Folks that want to change the law have an opinion but it is not a right of some kind which NYS is opposing and those folks are dividing hunters.

[skyhunter]

So, please explain the personal experiences that you have had that has lead you to this "elitism" claim. And by the way, I would love to see documentation on your claim about "Thousands of sane hunters". That's an easy thing to say, but saying it doesn't necessarily make it so, does it?

Did I read that correctly? 1st, you call others differing opinion "mindless". next you ask for documentation of sane hunters?

Edited June 8, 2012 by skyhunter

[Doc]

How is NYB dividing the bowhunting community? I assume you are referring to the xgun debate. Xguns are illegal during archery season in NY and I don't consider them archery equipment. NYB is simply standing up for the bowhunting community against the intrusion of a superior weapon which is more similar to gun then a bow. Folks that want to change the law have an opinion but it is not a right of some kind which NYS is opposing and those folks are dividing hunters.

Lol .... lets not fight the crossbow battle all over again. Yes that was probably the most devisive issue to come along in my lifetime. And guess what ..... NYB didn't start it. The aggression did not come from NYB. NYB held a completely defensive posture throughout and still does.

[Doc]

Did I read that correctly? you ask for documentation of sane hunters?

Yes, your claim of "Thousands of sane hunters share the view that the NYB have elitism at their very core" ...... I am simply asking for your source for that ridiculous statement.

[wdswtr]

Anyone else find it a tad humorous the title above DOCS avatar LMAO sorry DOC I had too. Okay I didnt have to but wanted too.

[Larry]

What the hell is a Xgun I have never seen one. I know (X) usually stands for experimental, could Chevy be talking about a RAILGUN?

[NFA-ADK]

OK so get involved and promote hunting!!! Any way you can...

Or we can argue about the NRA, NYB, Ted Nugent, X-bow vs compound, season dates, ethics, pictures with Illegal miniral blocks, the legal taking of someone's deer or any other number of things to argue about. Just try to get involved somehow...

We argue over what is sometimes trivial things, I am guilty as the next person. I believe it is in our nature as many hunters are very stong willed, IMO. Although we bicker within our ranks when real threats to hunting present themselves I see a more united front even if opinions vary.

We do not have to all belong to the same organization or agree with each others opinion yet we should all do something to promote, defend and ensure hunting is going to be a long enjoyed pastime after we have all gone... .

NFA GETSOME

[defrazzle]

OK so get involved and promote hunting!!! Any way you can...

Or we can argue about the NRA, NYB, Ted Nugent, X-bow vs compound, season dates, ethics, pictures with Illegal miniral blocks, the legal taking of someone's deer or any other number of things to argue about. Just try to get involved somehow...

NFA GETSOME.....

Let's see who the last blogger will be on this topic........maybe me.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

From the nyb website: http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/xbow.html

"Why is it that when the crossbow was first introduced into New York State, it had an effective range of 60 yards but now after over a decade of technological advances in crossbow technology by the crossbow manufacturers, it was been reduced to having an effective range equal to a modern compound bow?"

Not quite "superior" is it? Didn't a similar debate happen with the advent of the compound?

So NYB says it's more like a gun, but it has an effective range of a modern compound??? Yeah, ok. Is an airgun the same as any firearm? A crossbow propels its projectile via stored energy in the limbs and string. That's pretty much archery guys. So many haters in the hunting community. For the "holier than thou" crowd, doesn't the bible say that jealousy is a sin?

Hunt and let hunt...

Fudd out!

[Doc]

From the nyb website: http://www.newyorkbo...s.com/xbow.html

"Why is it that when the crossbow was first introduced into New York State, it had an effective range of 60 yards but now after over a decade of technological advances in crossbow technology by the crossbow manufacturers, it was been reduced to having an effective range equal to a modern compound bow?"

Not quite "superior" is it? Didn't a similar debate happen with the advent of the compound?

So NYB says it's more like a gun, but it has an effective range of a modern compound??? Yeah, ok. Is an airgun the same as any firearm? A crossbow propels its projectile via stored energy in the limbs and string. That's pretty much archery guys. So many haters in the hunting community. For the "holier than thou" crowd, doesn't the bible say that jealousy is a sin?

Hunt and let hunt...

Fudd out!

So let me understand ..... are you trying to extend the NYB bash-fest or trying to ressurect the crossbow controversy. Just trying to figure out exactly what you are trolling for ..... lol.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

NYB is simply standing up for the bowhunting community against the intrusion of a superior weapon which is more similar to gun then a bow.

They speak for their members (and probably not all of them) not the bowhunting community. what is their membership and how many licensed bowhunters are in the state? They may be doing some good but hteir opposition to inclusion of crossbows is enough of a show stopper for me NOT to become a member.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

So let me understand ..... are you trying to extend the NYB bash-fest or trying to ressurect the crossbow controversy. Just trying to figure out exactly what you are trolling for ..... lol.

I guess I'm just putting my 2 cents in. I had limited knowledge of the NYB issues some had, until this thread. I never really cared too much about the crossbow thing. I just don't see what the big deal is. So you could say I am stoking the fire. Does it bother any of you that someone has a more acurate weapon?

[WNYBuckHunter]

How is NYB dividing the bowhunting community? I assume you are referring to the xgun debate. Xguns are illegal during archery season in NY and I don't consider them archery equipment. NYB is simply standing up for the bowhunting community against the intrusion of a superior weapon which is more similar to gun then a bow. Folks that want to change the law have an opinion but it is not a right of some kind which NYS is opposing and those folks are dividing hunters.

Go back and read what I already wrote to Doc, I would just be repeating myself.

[nyslowhand]

Not getting a "warm & fuzzy" feeling about this actually getting enacted this year.

In typical fashion - legislature is getting ready to recess for the summer w/o accompolishing much this year.

Your tax $$ at work; they will have been in (actual) session 66 days from 1/2012 thru the end of June before taking a summer vacation.