Study: Whitetail Deer in Central New York - An alternative to Antler restriction

[Brushbuster]

Well, enough idle chatter.

Weather is coming in and they will have the feed bag on. I'm heading out.

[nyantler]

Haha .. I'd have no problem saying anything to you in person brush... it IS quite the same for me face to face as well... fortunately for me you don't travel in my circle... I love a good debate and I can tell that a lot of the guys on here have a good knowledge of whitetail deer even though or opinions may be different.. you on the other hand have the least amount of whitetail deer knowledge of any hunter I have ever met... you are merely dillusional. Sorry guys.. I'm not much usually for insults but this guy is a dope.

[Brushbuster]

Joe,

You finally said something with which we both agree. 

We dont travel in the same circles.

I remember when the measure of a good hunt had nothing to do with "points".  And when Pa was loaded with deer before your "experts" decided to "control" the herd in the name of AR

Enjoy your bone porn industry - it has nothing to do with my tradition of hunting.

[nyantler]

The measure of a good hunt still isn't about the number of points....8-point 10-point 12-point.. all are ok

[Doewhacker]

The measure of a good hunt still isn't about the number of points....8-point 10-point 12-point.. all are ok

And that is what makes you a ...... Tell us again how many bucks you have taken between 110-155 please because I don't think you have bragged nearly enough yet. Are you still angry that your TV career never took off or something. Bragadocious moron. Points on a rack are not a measure of success, but hey that isn't what you want to publish on your website now is it.

Edited Post, removed a certain word - John

[steve863]

The measure of a good hunt still isn't about the number of points....8-point 10-point 12-point.. all are ok

Just as I have always said, hunting is just a horn game for you guys and not much else.  I really feel sorry that you guys never discovered what hunting is really all about.  If you haven't up to this point in your hunting careers, I'm afraid you never will.  I have nothing more to say other than to offer my sympathies.

[TheHunter]

I'm just glad I'm at the point in my hunting life where I realize how messed up it is when people think that slamming down button bucks and young ones that are still sucking off their mom's teets is OK.

Its pretty sad when you brown its down people don't look at the big picture.

I have nothing more to say other than to offer my sympathies.

 

[Fantail]

You guys know what Antler Restriction, Point & Rack Hunters, and NACH have in common?

They all send us hype they assume we'll buy.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Boy, some of you guys have a hard time recognizing sarcasm, dont you?

Lighten up guys, deer season is still open ya know. 

[lsnydes]

I live in central NY and I am in favor of AR for reasons that have not been discussed by this group. There sure seems to be alot of authorities here. To me, the main reason I would be for AR is to make the woods safer for all of us.

How many of you hunters have had slugs whizzing over your head or smaking into trees near you? I have and it is enough to make you quit hunting. Certainly not worth being shot or killed for.

With AR it would help to stop the group of hunters that just shoot at movement. Why do they hunt in this manner? They have multiple tags and as long as they think it is a deer they are firing away. Just like rabbit hunting. Now they have rifles in hand and can shoot at greater distances.`

Every year it seems that you hear that someone has gotten shot and when asked the shooter says "I saw the movement and I thought it was a deer."

With an AR program atleast maybe they will now have to determine the sex of the deer they think they are shooting at. You would have to look to see if the deer has horns or not.

If there is another way to get people to positively identify their target I would be infavor of it. I don't know what it would be. AR I feel would help with this problem.  HUNT SAFE!!!

[steve863]

Isn't someone who doesn't have a doe tag supposed to determine the sex of the deer before they shoot in areas without AR's?  What's the difference if they are looking for spike horns in comparison to 3 points to a side?  Those who shoot indiscriminately will do it with or without AR's, you can be certain of that.

[Doewhacker]

And also isn't NY one of the safer states around as far as hunting is concerned?

[lsnydes]

It may be but isn't 1 death too many!!

[lsnydes]

I am refering to most hunters who do have multiple tags. On this site there were hunters talking about having 2 tags and going out and getting 2 more. Now why would they take the time to go out and get more tags if they were not planning on using them if given the opportunity??

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't see an issue with the number of tags a hunter has and how safe they are. One doe tag or 12....if they are not a safe hunter....they still won't be

[WNYBuckHunter]

I am refering to most hunters who do have multiple tags. On this site there were hunters talking about having 2 tags and going out and getting 2 more. Now why would they take the time to go out and get more tags if they were not planning on using them if given the opportunity??

Thats pretty unfair for you to assume that just because someone has multiple tags, they will shoot at anything that moves. I could possibly shoot a total of 7 deer this year, that doesnt mean Im gonna shoot anything that moves.  :

I do agree that AR MIGHT make things slightly safer in the woods, as it would discourage shooting at movement or a color a bit more. But, there are alot of guys out that that shoot anything that moves and then ground check it. If they dont have the proper tag, they leave it to rot. AR wont change that, those guys are already doing something they shouldnt be. Usually when you hear about a hunting death, it is due to illegal activity, its almost never just a simple mistake of shooting at movement or a color.

[Larry]

That’s BS someone who is unsafe will always be unsafe AR’s won’t change Behavior. Fawns are off the teat by the August if there not they won’t make it through the winter. Is it ok to shoot doe fawns if it’s not isn’t that hypocritical if it’s ok to shoot 1.5 year old doe why is not ok to shoot a .5 year old. You’ll still see more bucks because you killed a doe. Isn’t that what’s suppose to happen kill doe’s see more bucks? Isn’t that what this group is saying? Maybe things have change since I took Bio 101 kill females and you reduce the entire population. That may have changed the NEW SIENCE kill females get more males I do not know? 

[nyantler]

Some guys don't mean to be unsafe they just make snap decisions that get them in trouble... thats the part that AR's can fix.. makes the hunter take the time to look before he shoots. I'm sure most everyone on this forum has shot at a running deer at some point.. which is one of the most unsafe things you can do in the field..they probably did it without thinking how unsafe it is..you can't follow a deer with your gun and watch whats behind your target at the same time.

[nyantler]

That’s BS someone who is unsafe will always be unsafe AR’s won’t change Behavior. Fawns are off the teat by the August if there not they won’t make it through the winter. Is it ok to shoot doe fawns if it’s not isn’t that hypocritical if it’s ok to shoot 1.5 year old doe why is not ok to shoot a .5 year old. You’ll still see more bucks because you killed a doe. Isn’t that what’s suppose to happen kill doe’s see more bucks? Isn’t that what this group is saying? Maybe things have change since I took Bio 101 kill females and you reduce the entire population. That may have changed the NEW SIENCE kill females get more males I do not know? 

Any good management model teaches never to shoot a lone antlerless deer... because you have no  other deer there to compare sizes... if you wait til there is more than one you can pick the largest... this cuts down on the number of fawns and young does being killed instead of mature females. Plus you aren't killing does to make more bucks... you're killing does to help put the buck to doe ratio back to normal. True whitetail management (which is why AR's were concieved) is about keeping the quality of the herd based on the given habitat.. the increased amount and size of bucks is just a bi-product of any management program.

[Larry]

If you want to see bigger bucks all you need to do is keep the deer population at about 80% of capacity and keep the buck to doe ratio at about 3 or 4 doe’s to every buck and you don’t have to let every small buck walk  just most of them. Also some habitat improvement helps. It is that simple. And you don’t need AR’s. One more thing remember Bio. 101 a over abundance of males is detrimental to specie survival .most wmu's are at or below capacity.The 1 to 1 buck to doe ratio is a myth.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Larry, the idea behind getting back to doe ratio to a good level is not that you will have more bucks necessarily, its that the lower number of does will make the existing bucks move more to find a receptive doe, thus giving you a better chance of seeing the bucks. With a ton of does and only a few bucks, the bucks generally dont have to move much, so they wont, and you have less of a chance of seeing them.

[nyantler]

Actually guy the closer buck to doe ratio helps get all the does bred during their first estrus and eliminates late born fawns... which gives the young deer a boost for their first winter... It also creates more competition amongst the bucks so that the healthier more dominant bucks do the breading... what guys don't know about what they witness in the field is that most of what you see deer do is a product of mans intervention in nature...

[Doc]

I have to wonder just what it is about having your bucks engaging in constant knock down - dragged out fights that is supposed to make the herd so much more balanced and healthy. Forcing bucks to chase all over the county to find a diminished doe population, and then having to fight themselves into a totally weakened state doesn't really seem like a way that we would really like to see our buck populataion head into winter. I have heard that a chief cause of mortality in adult bucks (other than hunting) is the fact that they undergo the rigors of rut and normally head into the winters with most of their fat reserves depleted. I would think that our efforts at trying to intensify those rigors would most likely result in higher buck winter kills. Something to think about.

Doc

[nyantler]

Sorry to say Doc but its mother natures design not ours... what we have now is whats unnatural for the deer... but its the only thing most hunters know because they think of deer from a selfish standpoint... only how it affects their hunting... true that there is high mortality in older bucks from the rigor of the rut when there is enough other deer in their age class to compete with.. its mother natures way of purging and making room for the up and coming bucks.

[SteveB]

Then maybe we should make it all natural and do away with hunting - health of herd and all that ...........