here's a question....

[growalot]

When the DEC compiles deer population data...and some of it really has to go on probabilities...

IE...perdition...natural and vehicle deaths...do they go on farm equipment deaths?

I ask this because......I asked a farmer if they get nuisance permits...He said no they use to but..... with the number of fawns the the farm equipment take out each spring/summer...there aren't many deer left..sad but unavoidable..

That has stuck in my head and got me to thinking...I mean even I with my micro stamp little place...have come very close to wiping out fawn.... can't imagine how many are taken out each year in big operations

[Pav2704]

Never thought that would be such an issue? This may sound like a stupid question but how long till a fawn is up on their feet? Wouldn't they hear the equipment coming??? It seems odd to me that if the fawns were just born that they would be in a farmers field and not in deep cover somewhere in the woods?

[sits in trees]

interesting because my neighbor just killed 2 bedded fawns in 10 inch high grass on his John Deere riding mower, and that was just a guy mowing his lawn, i can only imagine the amount of fawns that are ground up every summer on big acreage hay lots.

we have alot of hay farmers in our area(horse farms are big here) and when they start cutting you will see dozens of grouse squashed on the roads as they evacuate the fields.

between that and poaching i really think the numbers the DEC comes up with are only a very rough estimate at best.

but with all that being said i have to say im seeing more deer in lower Ulster county this summer than ever, planning on a good season!

[growalot]

We're talking serious acres and acres of hill top farms....and I think they are talking not just spring but during haying and even when corn is being cut....I can see that when a large tractor..... is traveling pretty good clip in tall material that a deer might stand still trying to figure out which direction danger is coming from and be too late...like when a deer is shot at ...then stands there to try and figure out direction of noise

I know that on our place the doe will leave older fawns on their own for a good part of the day and then come in to pick them up in late afternoon....even during bow season I've watched this for many seasons...I assume it happens with doe /fawn in other areas....

[growalot]

SITs if they are having the weather we are...I can see why...no hay to cut...cutting #'s are down ...less critters hit

[MuzzyLoader]

Never thought that would be such an issue? This may sound like a stupid question but how long till a fawn is up on their feet? Wouldn't they hear the equipment coming??? It seems odd to me that if the fawns were just born that they would be in a farmers field and not in deep cover somewhere in the woods?

My grampa and great-uncle use to kill fawns every year while cutting fields. It seems that when 'mother' says "stay here and lie still", that is exactly what they do... even to death.

[dave6x6]

You are exactly right Muzzy. It has actually caused us to change our clover mowing schedule. In years past that first early summer mowing was usually done while standing and peering over the hood of the tractor. Finally after dozens of near misses, Mike finally hit one. It's not a good feeling. He actually took the fawn and had a full body mantle mount made that looks fantastic. Anyway, although our clover suffers, we've concluded that it's better to leave that fawning cover and mow later in the summer.

[fasteddie]

Fawns aren't the only ones that succumb to farm equipment .......

[G-Man]

We got lots of turkey nests while mowing hay, not to mention, fawns while brush hogging, and the hundreds that get hit by the trains evry year.

[Paula]

oh crap

[growalot]

So to the question...is that actually ever figured it what ever formula they have in deer population...and now that there are a significant # of true food plotters(Acres) out there how does that figure into equipment deaths?

[Pygmy]

I have never heard of agricultural fawn deaths being factored into deer mortality figures..That's not saying it isn't, but I suspect it was higher 30 or 40 years ago when there was MUCH more property in upstate NY involved in actual farming than there is now.

Most agricultural fawn deaths occur during haying operations.. In my area of NY there is far less acreage involved in haying than there was when I was a kid..At that time the main land use involved dairy farming, which requires lots of haying. Nowadays, the main land use involves recreation, either vacation parcels or hunting land..

I talked to two of my local friends just last Friday..One of them is 67 and the other is 70. They have both cut acres and acres of hay every year for many years..One guy said he had never killed a fawn while haying.. The other one said he had killed two, co-incidentally both this year.

I suspect free running dogs kill more fawns than farm equiptment, and I am SURE that coyotes kill more, at least in my area...

In parts of the state with more open farmland and less brush/woods/ scrub the fawn mortality is probably higher..

[fasteddie]

I doubt that the farmers would bother to report any deer killed by their farm equipment and that any deer killed would be a part of any report .

[nyantler]

The numbers we get are basically statistical probabilities with some actual numbers thrown in and multipliers added to account for unknowns based on just the types of stories some of you are telling about fawns being killed that get to the DEC's ears. The formulas are statistical formulas.. and anyone who has taken statistics in college will join me when I say... It's all greek to me!! I couldn't understand it then and I sure as hell don't understand it now.

Edited July 16, 2012 by nyantler

[Woodcock]

>>>interesting because my neighbor just killed 2 bedded fawns in 10 inch high grass on his John Deere riding mower, and that was just a guy mowing his lawn, i can only imagine the amount of fawns that are ground up every summer on big acreage hay lots.

we have alot of hay farmers in our area(horse farms are big here) and when they start cutting you will see dozens of grouse squashed on the roads as they evacuate the fields.

between that and poaching i really think the numbers the DEC comes up with are only a very rough estimate at best.

but with all that being said i have to say im seeing more deer in lower Ulster county this summer than ever, planning on a good season!<<<

Dozens of grouse??? Seems unlikely.....or do you mean pheasant perhaps? Still seems a bit odd.....

Edited August 11, 2012 by Woodcock

[wdswtr]

So does running over 2 fawns with a riding lawnmower in 10 inch grass.

[fasteddie]

So does running over 2 fawns with a riding lawnmower in 10 inch grass.

It sure does seem odd !

[growalot]

OMG...am I going to have to defend SITs...I have a bigger JD mower/tractor...the decks can be adjusted to come up prettyhigh...especially to mow tal grass...at the time of the post fawns would have been small and they are pretty low to the ground....

[hb270deermanager]

This is an excellent and almost always not

mentioned topic.I have planted food plots since

the mid 90's.As a guideline I wont plant after

may 31 through july 15 for the simple reason most

fawn birth's and bedding time occur's around this

time frame.I have drove up on fawn's in this time

frame in tall grass or light brush and they don't move

as part of their survival nature they don't move unless

their mother moves them their survival depends on this.

Great topic I really like that someone bought this to

light.

[hb270deermanager]

For those who don't know or are wondering a fawn at birth and for

2 to 3 weeks after have little or no sent.The doe finds a spot most

always in tall grass or thick brush where they are totally hidden from

sight.The doe leaves them and returns for feeding.occasionally moving

them for protection.But they will not move own their own normally.I have

walked up on fawns in my fields and at 3 or 4 ft away they just stare away

and be still and silent.If by chance a predator comes upon them if the doe's

not close by they will parrish.But if mom's near by she's on alert to divert the

danger away from her young.

[ncountry]

I remember brush hogging two little fawns years ago. I never even knew I hit them with all the brush noise until the next pass around. After the first pass I tried to pay more attention still got one more. 1/2 dozen passes later I heard a strange noise so I shut everything down.There was a tiny fawn laying between the tractor and the brush-hog. Ever since then I have avoided doing any brush hog work that time of the year.

[Doc]

For those who don't know or are wondering a fawn at birth and for

2 to 3 weeks after have little or no sent.The doe finds a spot most

always in tall grass or thick brush where they are totally hidden from

sight.The doe leaves them and returns for feeding.occasionally moving

them for protection.But they will not move own their own normally.I have

walked up on fawns in my fields and at 3 or 4 ft away they just stare away

and be still and silent.If by chance a predator comes upon them if the doe's

not close by they will parrish.But if mom's near by she's on alert to divert the

danger away from her young.

As proof of what is said above, note the picture provided that shows you would have to boot them in the butt to get them moving. And then I wonder if they would move even then.