12 killed, 38 hurt in Colorado shooting

[MountainHunter]

Four to six month process to get your permit though correct? All your hand guns have to be registered with a permit holder as well right.

[adirondackbushwhack]

Who here is vilifying anyone for carrying for personal protection? Here, I will help you, that would be no one! Not me. If you believe that to be the case. Quote where I stated that.

I have no issue with concealed carry with any person who has been properly vetted and trained.

I do have a problem with any schmo walking in off the street and buying what ever they want without some kind of a process being in place.

Most of you guys are talking out of your a--es. Talk to Police Agencies and see how many of them are going to just open fire in a crowded public place.

Dark Theatre, gas canisters, people screaming, bodies falling, people getting trampled while running to the exits and some of our super hero's here are going to lace this guy? Yeah right! How many innocent people would you have taken out with him? Yeah, you killed three people but you didn't go down passively!

How many police people do any of you want to hear from? I have a two year degree in Criminal Justice and a four year minor in it. I have many friends that are cops. They would tell you that you are being idiotic.

Unless you put your pistol barrel in this guys face or base of his neck how could anyone possibly get off a safe shot at this guy under those circumstances?

Knowledge of when to use your weapon is just as important as the weapon itself. What if 20 people in that theatre were carrying and they all opened fire on the guy? Would fewer people have died? would they have started to shoot at one another not knowing who the bad guy was?

The scary thing is some or most of you believe what you are saying!

Personal protection one on one or one on three or four is vastly different than taking someone out in a crowded movie theatre with mass hysteria going on!

A little hissy fit from the young pup? A criminal justice degree and you also know some cops? Vary good. I know a few myself and none of them would tell me I'm talking out my ass. Most of them would say they'd go into the theater after the guy and do the best they could to save innocent lives. But none of them have criminal justice degrees so maybe they'd be wrong too. Did they teach ya to lay down in school?

[HuntOrBeHunted]

This is a horrible tragedy and it's very unfortunate that it takes a toll on every gun owner in America.I do belive that with the amount of bullets and guns bought in such a short period of time that it should have raised some attention.Not to mention the heavy body armor head to toe.I wish peace and respect to the family.The guy looks like a nut case!

Bill.

[growalot]

OK...Ya know what? we're ALL talking out of our arses when giving an opinion on woulda ...coulda...shoulda...myself included...the Facts are...we weren't there....not sure if any of us have EVER been in that type of situation ....we don't know ALL the facts...whether anyone in the theater actually did have a gun and fear kept them unable to use it...what was going through anyone's minds.

Getting peeved at each others OPINIONS instead of just processing them for what they are...another persons thoughts over a situation that everyone is having a hard time processing...for it was a completely senseless horrific act...It doesn't answer any thing nor help anyone....peoples lives were lost...and destroyed and forever altered....The news will drag this out until they have wrung the absolute last breath out of it with no regard to the ppl having to relive it over and over

[Paula]

i have said, it is one thing to give your opinion but its wrong crossing the line getting personal and calling names.

[MountainHunter]

ABW, I am 54 years old. As much as you think or hoped you could of changed the circumstances of what happened, you would very likely have been wrong.

If there were 20 or more people in the theatre that were concealed carry, would any Police Agency have wanted all of them to open up on this guy? Would it be you who determined which of the 20 plus was the Super Hero ?How would a Police officer have gotten in to the theatre while people were flooding out of the exits?

I know your getting shot at but stop running and let me in? Any Police Officer who goes in to that situation if they could actually get in, and starts shooting would very likely be done as a Police officer.

With all these mass murder tragedies I would ask you to give me one instance where a Police officer or Agency or a private individual took the shooter out prior to the shooter being isolated. Or took him out at all? Columbine? Arizona? Virginia Tech? That guy in Sweden or Norway?

I know your the exception, you would have accomplished what no one else has yet been able to because you just finished reading The Armed Citizen column. If only you would have been there!

Edited July 24, 2012 by Scot

[First-light]

OK...Ya know what? we're ALL talking out of our arses when giving an opinion on woulda ...coulda...shoulda...myself included...the Facts are...we weren't there....not sure if any of us have EVER been in that type of situation ....we don't know ALL the facts...whether anyone in the theater actually did have a gun and fear kept them unable to use it...what was going through anyone's minds.

Getting peeved at each others OPINIONS instead of just processing them for what they are...another persons thoughts over a situation that everyone is having a hard time processing...for it was a completely senseless horrific act...It doesn't answer any thing nor help anyone....peoples lives were lost...and destroyed and forever altered....The news will drag this out until they have wrung the absolute last breath out of it with no regard to the ppl having to relive it over and over

Good point Grow. We all have our opinions on gun control but like you said, the could of, would of and should of of that night should not be debated.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Four to six month process to get your permit though correct? All your hand guns have to be registered with a permit holder as well right.

9 months for me, as I previously lived in 2 other states. Yep, all of my handguns go on my permit.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Theres nothing wrong with discussion and debate. Theres just no reason to start flaming each other. Lets just keep it clean. Its been okay up to this point.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I personally don't have a problem jumping through a hoop to get a permit. (mine took 4.5 months but I think the FBI background check I had gone through just prior to applying might have helped). I do hae a problem jumping through multi[ple hoops and having someone constantly changing the size and location of the hoops. If I am valid on my pistol permit I shouldn't have to have a federal check...Heck the best bet would be a federal permit with complete reciprocity across state lines.

[Elmo]

I personally don't have a problem jumping through a hoop to get a permit. (mine took 4.5 months but I think the FBI background check I had gone through just prior to applying might have helped). I do hae a problem jumping through multi[ple hoops and having someone constantly changing the size and location of the hoops. If I am valid on my pistol permit I shouldn't have to have a federal check...Heck the best bet would be a federal permit with complete reciprocity across state lines.

I agree. While some laws are a bit ridiculous, I find comfort knowing that there are certain laws in place. I know someone personally who served briefly in Iraq and suffers from PTSD. He's easily agitated and gets angry by just being slightly provoked. He has thought about getting a firearm and I'm telling you, 2nd amendment aside, this is not someone who should have one.

Also, I think the government should turn their focus away from making it harder for people to obtain firearms legally and focus more on making it harder for people to obtain firearms illegally.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Also, I think the government should turn their focus away from making it harder for people to obtain firearms legally and focus more on making it harder for people to obtain firearms illegally.

And there is the problem!!! It is easy to pass do nothing laws that make everyone feel good when they apply to law abiding folks. They do NOTHING to stop criminals. As a side note----I am glad this guy had an AR and Glocks. If the accounts I am seeing are right, he didn't use the shotgun as much as the other wepons. Imagine the darnage if he had a a semi shotgun with buck shot and a pile of rounds in that tight quarters.

[Doc]

I have never applied for a handgun permit, so please excuse me if this question sounds a little bit ignorant. But, I was wondering if the issuing agencies get into psychological analysis, or any kind of activity to determine your mental state? Obviously if you have a criminal record involving eratic behavior, they may have a chance of somehow finding that out prior to a permit being issued. But barring any kind of such record, do they do anything at all to discover psychological problems including outright insanity?

Like I say, I have never had occasion to want a handgun, so I am completely ignorant of the process other than a comment here and there mentioned through casual conversation. So, since it is primarily in cases of these clearly mentally disturbed perpetrators that all the registration talk is spawned, I was wondering just how effective the licensing process really is in weeding out insane gun buyers.

Also, are there any credible guesstimates as to how many criminals (insane or otherwise) that the registration and permitting system has turned back from a gun purchase? Again, I have no knowledge in that area, so I just figured it was worth a question.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

NY does a Mental health background check but if you have not bee treated (and I believe it is in a institution of hospital for mental issues) it doesn't show up. SO if someone were to just break like it appears this guy did there probably wasn't a record. I hae no idea what CO has for rules but there are states that all you need is a driver's license and you are good to go. Maine is one that comes to mind. I had to fill out a form stateing I had no mental issues and I think there was a place to consent to the check. THis may take the OLD fruitloops out of hte mix but the new and fresh kind are probably getting through.

[Elmo]

As much as I hate restrictions and having freedom taken away, I don't mind having something in place to seperate sane law abiding gun owners such as myself from being grouped in the same category as James Holmes.

[Elmo]

Not sure if upstate is different but for NYC, you also need several charater references and you have to go through an interview. Of course references can always be "manufactured".

[Culvercreek hunt club]

come up with something that will work and not just a hinderance for the good folks and I could probably support it. I won't support a law for the sake of a law

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Not sure if upstate is different but for NYC, you also need several charater references and you have to go through an interview. Of course references can always be "manufactured".

Every County is different. some have an interview process...some hav eto take a safety/training course/ some required 3 references ..some 4...I am sure there are other differences and that is kind of my point too. it should be the same...for everyone. If you are planning on infringing on a RIGHT you better make sure it is equally done

Edited July 24, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Elmo]

Every County is different. some have an interview process...some hav eto take a safety/training course/ some required 3 references ..some 4...I am sure there are other differences and that is kind of my point too. it should be the same...for everyone. If you are planning on infringing on a RIGHT you better make sure it is equally done

So true. Doing so would also make trasportation across state lines simpler.

[Nomad]

One thing I'd like to point out is KNOW YOUR EXITS. Where money or tickets are collected you enter through one door, 99.9 % leave that way even if its out of their way,in times of emergency as well.

You can leave through any exit in normal times, let alone something like this.

The " Great White" bar fire is a classic example people jammed up at the front door and died, many went right past other exits, plus those big windows right next to the front door would fall to any bar stool.

One can seldom go wrong doing opposite of the masses.

and yes I try to sit near an aisle, and always know the exits.

This is not anything against the victims, just trying to help get folks thinking.

[apoallo]

This is a tragady and I feel sympthy for the victims and there families. However This could be thrown back into the faces of most anti gun people..If they truly feel that guns kill people then this man should be dropped of all charges and set free.. I could have just as easily drove my jeep barreling through times square and on a busy night and mow over tons of people killing more than this individual did. So in which case, cars and trucks should be banned because I didnt kill anyone, the jeep did....................sometimes i feel like something like this was plotted to happen using firearms to aid in the presidents quest to ban firearms. Thumbs down!!!!!. May the deceased R.I.P.

[wdswtr]

I dont know if this was brought up yet or not, as I just couldnt read all the bantering anymore lol. Today on the news it reported that this psycho applied for a 26,000 dollar grant of some sort, got accepted and used the money to commit this crime. So where does that leave everything on this gun debate now? Government gave him the money that he obviously lied to get, and now government wants to further enforce gun control and use this in there defense. This whole deal is heart wrenching.

[Doc]

As much as I hate restrictions and having freedom taken away, I don't mind having something in place to seperate sane law abiding gun owners such as myself from being grouped in the same category as James Holmes.

I agree, but so far as I read all this stuff, I have yet to see where any of these intrusive processes are doing what they were jammed into law to do. For example, I see nothing that gets at the mental state of permit candidates. Not that I can think of anything that would do that. But every law that has been passed (and there are volumes of them), I have heard no one state which law should have prevented this event. Of the few actual suggestions that I have heard offered here, there are none of them that actually would do what people think they would and none of them would have prevented what happened in Colorado. I'm having a hard time jumping on this new gun-law bandwagon, when no one has anything new to offer. As I said once before, I think we have reached the end of the road in terms of effective, useful legislative solutions. Now all I see is a bunch of re-runs. It's a tough deal, but there is no way I can sign onto this idea of flailing around passing laws that have no true realistic expectations of actually doing anything. We have already had far too much of that.