send letters for crossbows in NY

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Guys I am new to this discussion, but I look at it this was. I am not for the use of a crossbow for the following reason. This bow season I saw two nice bucks and they were about 50 yards from my stand and I just watched them walk away toward my neighbors property. It was two separate occasions when I saw the buck.

If my neighbor had a crossbow he could have taken these deer no problem at that distance. So I am at a distinct disadvantage. Close but no cigar. That's not fair!!!!!!!!!

Dave

There are folks out there that are capable of those shots with a compound....unfortunately I am not one of them...lol

the buck could have just as easily walked by you at 50 and them walked by your neighbor at 20. It is a crap shoot we are all involved in. I guess if the neighbors are goofs I would feel bad seeing them take one but the guys near me ....I would love to see anyone I know take a great buck.

[Dave]

30 yds and under is my limit with a recurve.

Definately at a distinct disadvantage over someone with a compound.

And a crossbow has no better ballistics or killing power then a compound.

With your reasoning, my neighbor should not be allowed to use a compound?

Steve, I am comparing the Crossbow and a Bow. Did I say I had a Compound Bow. I did not, that was your interpertation.

Dave

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Dave,

I don't mean this as an attack so please do not read anything into this....it is just an observation. When I listen to the folks that as so vocally opposed to the crossbow being included in the bow season there seems to be an underlying theme even when they do not say it. I commend you for voicing your true feelings and I respect that. That common tone always seems to take the form of how someone else's actions....using a crossbow....would detract from their experience. Whether it is shooting a deer that they were not able to take or too many gun hunters trapsing around the woods and disturbing the deer. I am lucky and have not had to hunt public land in years and I could understand the stance for some that only have that option open to them.

I think the inclusion would increase participation and in a time when our numbers are on a down turn and our sport is coming under more frequent attacks, I think any thing that increases our numbers.....even if a small number is a good thing. Too bad a topic like this divides us when we should be standing shoulder to shoulder at all costs

[Doewhacker]

I really don't think a crossbow or any other new weapon will bring any new people to our sport. You're right Culv, there might be a few but not a huge amount. I also don't think handing some one a crossbow will automatically get them a deer, if they can't figure it out now with a bow or gun they won't figure it out with a crossbow either unless they learn that is. We will never see enough of a gain in new hunters to off set the loss of the hunters we are seeing now. They stop hunting or move out of NY or what ever reason, and there is s slim chance that any one of them is going to run out and rejoin the hunting community because of a crossbow.

[Dave]

Dave,

I don't mean this as an attack so please do not read anything into this....it is just an observation. When I listen to the folks that as so vocally opposed to the crossbow being included in the bow season there seems to be an underlying theme even when they do not say it. I commend you for voicing your true feelings and I respect that. That common tone always seems to take the form of how someone else's actions....using a crossbow....would detract from their experience. Whether it is shooting a deer that they were not able to take or too many gun hunters trapsing around the woods and disturbing the deer. I am lucky and have not had to hunt public land in years and I could understand the stance for some that only have that option open to them.

I think the inclusion would increase participation and in a time when our numbers are on a down turn and our sport is coming under more frequent attacks, I think any thing that increases our numbers.....even if a small number is a good thing. Too bad a topic like this divides us when we should be standing shoulder to shoulder at all costs

Colver, I have to agree with your logic, as a hunter we should be united not divided. I'm not against the crossbow but it has advantages over the bow's . It's just another hunting implement like switching to a different gun that you never used before. If it is legal than anyone who chooses to use one could and if you don't you don't. It would be up to the hunters preference just another tool in our arsenal.

Dave

[G-Man]

Ok, after reading and rereading this topic and related. I can only say it seem those in favor of the crossbow know , care about those who or are themselves incapable of drawing a standard bow and agree that for disabled that is fine. The people going off topic and don't want them at all in early season seem to have the idea they create a big advantage over their skill as an archer. I get the feeling they are more concerned that someone with a crossbow will kill "their deer" . Last I knew we didn't use the european system where the landowners own the game,we use a system that the game belongs to everyone! As for the huge advantage the xbow has over the bow, there is more to hunting than pulling a trigger or releasing a string, I know quite a few great archers who can robinhood arrows all day long that cannnot kill a deer or get close enough to one to harvest one. The same will hold true for those who will use a xbow it is not a miracle bow the person pulling the trigger is the one that ultimatly will be the factor in harvesting game!

[shu9265]

This is a direct quote from NYB's stand on crossbows.

It is the added challenge of using a primitive weapon that drives many bowhunters and the crossbow simple does not challenge a hunter like a compound, recurve or longbow does.

Frankly, an inexperienced individual could literally pick up a scope mounted crossbow and with a few adjustments to the scope be shooting a crossbow with extreme precision.

This same level of accuracy would take much more time for an archer to achieve and we accept and embrace this. It helps us to become closer to our sport and this adds to our level of enjoyment.

Even the crossbow proponents understand that the crossbow does not take the time nor dedication required to master a conventional compound, recurve or longbow.

In the fall 2004 issue of “CROSSBOW” Magazine, the author of an article entitled “The Scoop on Crossbows” states “A second crossbow advantage is the time it takes to become proficient enough to successfully hunt with one. Due to the crossbow’s rifle-like it takes less time and practice to attain or maintain sufficient shooting skills.

Attaining good shooting form, the primary requirement for becoming an effective compound bowhunter, requires constant practice and significantly more time to maintain a sufficient competence level.”

These are all points of interest, as anyone that hunts or shoots knows, You have one thing that has to be done no matter what implement is being used. 

That one thing is PRACTICE !

The above statement is making it sound as if you can take a crossbow out of the box and be proficient with it in a very short time.

When in fact, it will take just as long if not longer to master the use of a crossbow as it will the use of a stick, recurve, or compound bow.

The same basic steps need to be followed to insure accuracy and effectiveness. The same dedication has to be applied to the use of either for one to become the best one can be with that tool.

Just as you  cannot take a brand new bow out of the box and use it without "tuning" and adjusting it for properperformance, and then the user has to PRACTICE with it to achieve consistent results.

The same is true for the users of a crossbow, you have to maintain a level of practice that will ensure

when the time comes to harvest an animal, this can be accomplished as cleanly and quickly as humanely possible.

It seems that some folks have lost the jest of this whole thing, that the crossbow is another tool.

And instead of all of this arguing and in-fighting, we should ALL be working together to achieve the same goal.

To get MORE hunters back in the field ! ! !

The longer we continue to fight and argue between our own ranks, we are just making it that much easier for the "anti-hunting" groups to slip in a take our right to hunt away from ALL of US ! ! ! !

[First-light]

Ok, after reading and rereading this topic and related. I can only say it seem those in favor of the crossbow know , care about those who or are themselves incapable of drawing a standard bow and agree that for disabled that is fine. The people going off topic and don't want them at all in early season seem to have the idea they create a big advantage over their skill as an archer. I get the feeling they are more concerned that someone with a crossbow will kill "their deer" . Last I knew we didn't use the european system where the landowners own the game,we use a system that the game belongs to everyone! As for the huge advantage the xbow has over the bow, there is more to hunting than pulling a trigger or releasing a string, I know quite a few great archers who can robinhood arrows all day long that cannnot kill a deer or get close enough to one to harvest one. The same will hold true for those who will use a xbow it is not a miracle bow the person pulling the trigger is the one that ultimatly will be the factor in harvesting game!

I would love to see my two neighbors (both can't draw a bow from neck problems) shoot the biggest deer in the area during bow season with a crossbow. Wouldn't bother me one bit.

One guy served this country for over 20 years and fought in two wars. Don't you think he deserves the right to crossbow hunt while we bow hunt? Don't we all deserve the right!

[arrowflinger]

Don't you think he deserves the right to crossbow hunt while we bow hunt?

Yes.

Don't we all deserve the right!

No.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Your buddy WNY came in to try to make a mountain out of a molehill, escalating the conversation.  It is obvious that there are 3 procrossbow folks who are intent on discrediting the messenger, rather than discussing the message.

Wow, I even told you Ive been saying things just to yank your chain, and you still dont get it. LOL

Oh, and I did plenty of discrediting your message, but you probably did a better job of discrediting it on your own. 

[nyantler]

With your reasoning, my neighbor should not be allowed to use a compound?

Always dragging the perfectly legal and acceptable compound into the discussion to muddy the waters.

Shameless diversionary tactic.

Why not just discuss the admissibility (or lack thereof) of the crossbow on its own merits?

you continue to pick and choose little snippits out of context .. then try to act like you are actually making a point... the more you speak the younger you sound

[arrowflinger]

you continue to pick and choose little snippits out of context .. then try to act like you are actually making a point... the more you speak the younger you sound

You do not like my posting style?  That's a shame.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Arrow,

I was wondering where you hunt (area wise).....do you gun hunt...and what do you use?

[arrowflinger]

Arrow,

I was wondering where you hunt (area wise).....do you gun hunt...and what do you use?

Region 8.  Yes, I gun hunt.  I use a .44RM carbine.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

in a lever gun or pistol?

[arrowflinger]

Lever gun.

[nyantler]

you continue to pick and choose little snippits out of context .. then try to act like you are actually making a point... the more you speak the younger you sound

You do not like my posting style?  That's a shame.

Again dodging the issue with what you call witty banter? And you use the word shame a lot... the word must have big meaning in your life

[G-Man]

The banter back and forth here is childish, its america set up a poll that says yea or nay for or against majority wins....this topic was about diasbled use during the early season....

[arrowflinger]

The banter back and forth here is childish, its america set up a poll that says yea or nay for or against majority wins....

The last 2 surveys by the DEC regarding crossbows show that only a small minority (20% and 25%) wanted them included in bowseason.

Now, if we can all agree that the will of the majority of NY sportsmen should be respected....we are done here.

[nyantler]

Yeah I think I'd bail if I were you too Arrow... everything else is irrelevant :

[WNYBuckHunter]

The banter back and forth here is childish, its america set up a poll that says yea or nay for or against majority wins....

The last 2 surveys by the DEC regarding crossbows show that only a small minority (20% and 25%) wanted them included in bowseason.

Now, if we can all agree that the will of the majority of NY sportsmen should be respected....we are done here.

Care to back your claims up with links to the surveys?

I have been a hunter in NY for the majority of the last 20 years and have yet to be given a survey by the DEC on crossbows.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The banter back and forth here is childish, its america set up a poll that says yea or nay for or against majority wins....this topic was about diasbled use during the early season....

You are in the wrong topic lol. This one wasnt about disabled hunters

[arrowflinger]

Care to back your claims up with links to the surveys?

I have been a hunter in NY for the majority of the last 20 years and have yet to be given a survey by the DEC on crossbows.

You go find them....I am busy.  They were done by Cornell in 2000 and 2005, if I remember correctly.

And who cares if you haven't got a survey...you think the world revolves around you?

[nyantler]

what are you "12" Arrowflinger... give an adult response.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I really don't think a crossbow or any other new weapon will bring any new people to our sport. You're right Culv, there might be a few but not a huge amount. I also don't think handing some one a crossbow will automatically get them a deer, if they can't figure it out now with a bow or gun they won't figure it out with a crossbow either unless they learn that is. We will never see enough of a gain in new hunters to off set the loss of the hunters we are seeing now. They stop hunting or move out of NY or what ever reason, and there is s slim chance that any one of them is going to run out and rejoin the hunting community because of a crossbow.

Doe, there may be an initial increase for the ones that gotta try a new thing and buy into the hype about there effectiveness. themn there will be a declline...and really nice used ones for sale cheap...lol. I heard that happened in Ohio. I think the major influx would be from hunters who physically can't bow hunt due to disabilities.  And that proposed bill would encompass them. Will it bring new hunters in or some back....maybe a few back but chances are those folks are gun hunting and some would migrate back to bow hunting. I have one old hunting partner of ours that would be in those ranks because he has a condition that makes it so he can not tolerate the cold. he gets out very little gun hunting anymore....mostly up north early season. He would be able to participate is this was passed. so that is one...lol