send letters for crossbows in NY

[Doc]

Nonetheles like everyone else he is entitled to post his opinion. We can choose to either respond or simply bypass anyones post on this forum.

As someone once said, "life is too short, eat desert first".

Since he is a relatively new member, I was just trying to make it clear to Archer that if he has an opinion, he should feel free to express it and not expect that kind of abusive reply from anyone else in this forum and that he should not take Sits' unfriendly remarks too seriously. I do believe that he has a right to his opinion too without that kind of ridiculous and uncalled for attack.

Doc

[sits in trees]

man the sensitivity level on this forum is mind blowing. i think alot of you guy's are taking this getting in touch with your feminine side a bit too far ???  . and look at you DOC your back again, just can't keep away can you now, then you sit there and blubber how you wish this site had an ignore feature to keep me blocked out, HUH????

[archer]

Thanks for the info Doc every forum has a couple of them.  As a moderator myself in a different forum we would at times ban someone like that if the flaming got to severe. Everyone should be able to express an opinion without being attacked. 

But yeah now that I know I don't lend crediblity to anyone like that....so no problem.

[sits in trees]

the simple fact is me and many like me in NY wanna see crossbows put into archery season so that hunters can have another choice of vaible weapon to be used in the process of killing deer during bow season, and you anti crossbow guy's have this sunshine and lollypops view of whats going on here in NY with "your bow season" and "your deer". well guy's it's time to wake up join in or just stand aside.

Crossbow will bring new interest to hunting and it will revive interest for those who have gotten too old to enjoy the sport anymore.

we want the right to hunt on our own land with the weapon we so choose to use, crossbow or compound and won't stand there while other people try and deny us that right ESPECIALLY on our own land, do what you want to control state land and put your little laws into place there if you must, as a matter of fact join right up with anti hunters who have all kinds of plans for how and what state land is going to be used for in the near future..they have a big list of weapons they wanna ban and yea compound bows is at the top of their list!!

[wztirem]

Anti-Bowhunting Campaign - Animal Defenders of Westchester ...  I was very glad to hear that your anti-bow hunting campaign was a success. ... a good strategy that might work to stop deer culling, using the compound bow? ...

www.all-creatures.org/adow/let-20041109.html - Cached - Similar    Sits is correct, I had the misfortune of having a confrontation with one of their supporters in a delicatessen in Westchester some years back! There is no doubt that these extremists need to be taken seriously! We need to protect our right to hunt and fully support efforts to increase our opportunities to hunt with whatever weapon we choose. Anything short of this is a recipe for disaster.

[Doc]

the simple fact is me and many like me in NY wanna see crossbows put into archery season so that hunters can have another choice of vaible weapon to be used in the process of killing deer during bow season, and you anti crossbow guy's have this sunshine and lollypops view of whats going on here in NY with "your bow season" and "your deer". well guy's it's time to wake up join in or just stand aside.

Crossbow will bring new interest to hunting and it will revive interest for those who have gotten too old to enjoy the sport anymore.

we want the right to hunt on our own land with the weapon we so choose to use, crossbow or compound and won't stand there while other people try and deny us that right ESPECIALLY on our own land, do what you want to control state land and put your little laws into place there if you must, as a matter of fact join right up with anti hunters who have all kinds of plans for how and what state land is going to be used for in the near future..they have a big list of weapons they wanna ban and yea compound bows is at the top of their list!!

No, the real simple fact is that you have a personality problem. You simply don't know how to express yourself in a civil manner. I mean, that is without a single exception. There's no excuse for that reply that you posted and you know it. 

[sits in trees]

the simple fact is me and many like me in NY wanna see crossbows put into archery season so that hunters can have another choice of vaible weapon to be used in the process of killing deer during bow season, and you anti crossbow guy's have this sunshine and lollypops view of whats going on here in NY with "your bow season" and "your deer". well guy's it's time to wake up join in or just stand aside.

Crossbow will bring new interest to hunting and it will revive interest for those who have gotten too old to enjoy the sport anymore.

we want the right to hunt on our own land with the weapon we so choose to use, crossbow or compound and won't stand there while other people try and deny us that right ESPECIALLY on our own land, do what you want to control state land and put your little laws into place there if you must, as a matter of fact join right up with anti hunters who have all kinds of plans for how and what state land is going to be used for in the near future..they have a big list of weapons they wanna ban and yea compound bows is at the top of their list!!

No, the real simple fact is that you have a personality problem. You simply don't know how to express yourself in a civil manner. I mean, that is without a single exception. There's no excuse for that reply that you posted and you know it.

if expressing my views for the good of hunting in my state causes you to believe i have a personality problem then so be it. and if anyone disagrees with your views for the perfect bow season you resort to calling them a host of names also(too many to list). im' basically here to argue fact and have proven that with the majority of my posts in this thread, on the other hand you are the one calling me a troll and flamer amonst other things for simply stating facts that prove you wrong. i'll pass on your scolding and will continue to fight anything i see as being wrong as far as NY sportsman are concerned.

[Doc]

Ok Sits, carry on with your bitter disagreeable style of "conversation". I just hope your personality disorder doesn't wind up costing us members.

[Larry]

To The Hunter here is the definition of a Cross Bow. This definition is out of the Webster’s Dictionary & Thesaurus copy rite 1999.  Cross – Bow: A weapon consisting chiefly of a bow mounted crosswise near the end of a wooden stock.

Whether you agree or not with the cross- bow issue you should still call it a cross – bow and not just spout off the NYBH line of propaganda.

Let me first state that I am a bow hunter and I have no intention of ever using an X- Bow. That being said I am not totally against X-Bows. The mechanical advantage an X-Bow has over a vertical bow that is true for a Stick bow but not for a Compound bow. The only advantage I can see is you can pre-draw and they are a more stable platform.

It will not matter if the Gov. Signs the bill or not after so many days it becomes law. I can’t remember how many days I think it is 90 day unless he veto’s it will become law. That’s how some of the southern zone rifle areas were put in place. If you remember he didn’t sign all the rifle bills.

[wztirem]

Last I saw, Patterson was still reading through the stack of bills on his desk

[Chevy]

....man i can't wait till crossbows become legal (and they will)so i can PM each of you anti hunter wingnuts and stomp you with my keyboard and laugh in your pitiful faces!!!

This is the type of guy crossguns will attract and why we fear for archery season.  I love the sinister threats of future chaos.

[sits in trees]

Ok Sits, carry on with your bitter disagreeable style of "conversation". I just hope your personality disorder doesn't wind up costing us members.

Don't worry Doc i don't plan on visiting this thread again, all that can be said has been said and it's become pointless. i think my postings in this thread have done everything to bring and keep new members and keep interest in some of the very important issues we as NY hunters face, Doc just take a look to the right in the little box titled hot topics, close to 6500 views and over 400 replies, trust me Doc no ones running from this forum because of me!

[Doc]

Don't worry Doc i don't plan on visiting this thread again, all that can be said has been said and it's become pointless.

Lol ........ I figured that back before this thread and all the others were even started.

[MountainHunter]

I am not reading 30 pages of debate regarding cross bows.I will state my opinion though.I have no problem with them,especially so for those with disabilities.they are successfully being used in some of the most prolific big buck states in the nation.

My sense of the NY Bowhunters Association as a former several year member is that they are a small group where the leadership has changed very little and they look to advance their own views regardless of what the majority of bow hunters in the state want.

I see the New York outdoor News in a similar light.

[biggamefish]

  Don't care about crossbows being used.  Just don't change the season that is my issue.  They shouldn't get a special season.  Put them with the muzzelloaders.

[bubba]

umm the muzzleloaders have a special season

[Upstater]

After wading through 30 pages of insults, hyperbole, opinions, and skewed logic, I thought long and hard about whether to bother adding my proverbial 2 cents to the argument.  I decided to do so because of one reason - I've yet to hear anybody articulate the biggest threat that crossbows pose to archery season.

First, a bit of background so you know where I'm coming from.  I started bowhunting back in the early 80's, and quickly fell in love with the challenge, the peace and quiet, and everything about it - to the point that I quickly gave up guns.  I hunt everything with a bow - deer, small game, fish, anything I can.  I was born and raised just north of Pittsburgh Pa, where in some areas the deer are thick as rats and many of them are the size of dogs as a result.  Living in an area like this, bag limits are liberal... I used to routinely take 12 or more antlerless deer every year (usually nothing with horns).  Not that I haven't killed a couple of wallhangers, and not that I don't like seeing a nice buck in front of me, but for whatever twisted reason I just enjoy putting meat in the freezer more than antlers on the wall.  I ended up here in Upstate New York about 3 years ago, and I have to admit it's been quite a shock.  Lots of beautiful woodlots and fields - and even more "No Hunting" signs.  But I digress...

My OPINION is that crossbows don't belong in archery season for one main reason - they remove the single biggest challenge that most of us face: drawing on an approaching animal.  I used to hunt with a "buck" hunter who scoffed at all the "stupid" does I tagged and used to say "I coulda shot 5 doe today", like simply laying eyes on a deer was the same as putting a tag in its ear.  I challenged him to start drawing on these deer, and hunting them like that mythical buck he was holding out for.  He took the challenge, and it took him awhile to admit it, but he was getting busted drawing on those "stupid" doe most every time.  Point is that this movement is a critical part of the challenge of BOWHUNTING - and x-gunners don't have this problem,  Sure, they have to swing that big contraption in the direction of the deer, point, and shoot, but I just don't think it's the same.  Which leads me to the point that I don't think anyone's raised yet (and which I find amazing).

SUCCESS RATES.  My home state of Pennsylvania enjoys a 6-week archery season that extends through the rut for one reason only - low success rates (and minimal impact on the resources).  The last time I checked, Pa archers enjoy a respectable 13% success rate - and they're absolutely terrified that the inclusion of the crossbow in this season will drive up the success rates to a point that the game commission will do the only natural thing - shorten the season.  There's a reason rifle seasons aren't 6 weeks long guys - the resource couldn't handle it.  The big fear is that introducing a weapon that LIKELY will have a higher success rate into our season will ultimately shorten it.  Now multi-weapon hunters usually could care less about this, because after the new 5 day archery season closes they'll just grab the next weapon and hit the woods.  But the guys like me who hunt only archery will be screwed. 

Just my 2 cents... happy hunting guys, and good luck this year.

[fasteddie]

Upstater ............http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/thumbup.gif[/img]..http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/beer.gif[/img]...http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/thumbup.gif[/img]

[TheHunter]

As a member pointed out, there are scopes available for the "crossbows" that enable you to shoot accurately up to 80 yards consistently.  Why for the love of god would you want to pollute the archery season with these is beyond me.  Again I respect the disabled, would have no issue at all with anyone who can not use a bow to use the crossbow in any season.

For the few that posted replies to my comments attack so violently as if I am taking something away from them.  And one intelligent member said most of these guys that are against it are going to be the first to run out and buy one.  Thats so far from the truth its not even funny.  I have a right to oppose the crossbow as much as you have the right to push it, so please get a grip.

[SteveB]

My OPINION is that crossbows don't belong in archery season for one main reason - they remove the single biggest challenge that most of us face: drawing on an approaching animal. 

In that case, I am sure that you support getting rid of shoot thru ground blinds and tree stands.

Both extremeley effective methods to hide the draw. Might add any bow with letoff also - greater the let off, the easier to draw and hold while the deers head is hidden and wait for the shot.

[SteveB]

All you crossbow fanboys are more then likely just a crap shot with bow and are looking for some easy way out.

So "Hunter" - still waitng your reply as to when we are getting together with our recurves to show me how bad a shot I must be because I support the use of crossbows for? I want to see how accurate someone shooting a real bow is when they are anti crossbow.

[archer]

Upstater - well said, and I am with you on this.  But I don't agree that nobody else has spoken as to the "whys" of keeping the crossbow out of the archery season.  There are many good reasons, and yours is another.  The simple fact is that the crossbow is a "cocked" weapon that does not require the hunter to draw, hold, and shoot like a traditional or even a compound does.  And yes, it will attract so many people to the archery season that it has to affect the season lengths.  I agree.  But, at the root of all this is the simple fact that it is not a bow for the reasons mentioned; draw, hold, shoot.  It is cocked like a rifle or shotgun.  It belongs in the gun season.

[Upstater]

Archer,

I didn't mean to say that there weren't good reasons put forth to oppose the x-gun in archery season, what I meant to say was that many of the reasons cited are based on emotion or opinion, which leaves room for those who don't really care about the season as much as they do the big tent to attack you and your position.

I personally don't object to attracting more people to the season, and I don't think you do either - what I object to is introducing a weapon that will INCREASE THE SUCCESS RATES OF THE SEASON to the point where wildlife managers will have no choice but to limit opportunity by shortening seasons.  For the life of me I can't understand any real bowhunter who is willing to see that happen under the guise of goodwill or anything else they choose to call it.  I don't think the proponents of x-guns are looking to hurt hunting, but I do believe they don't realize their stance is hurting a specific segment of the sport - bowhunting.

There are those who wish to argue endlessly here, and parse the issue to death... treestands, groundblinds, etc.  I don't have the time or the energy.  As Doc so aptly pointed out, nobody's changing minds here.  To them, I would submit that none of these METHODS have given hunters a decided advantage over our quarry.  I've been busted by a sharp whitetail sitting 20 feet off the ground trying to draw more times than I can imagine.  Are treestands an advantage?  Definitely.  Do they offer the same advantage NOT having to draw a bow in the presence of game does?  IMO absolutely not.  Apples and oranges... treestands are a method... x-guns are a weapon.

[SteveB]

And trying to move a crossbow into position when the deer does not come into the same position that you have it resting will most likely get you busted as well. And since a ground blind hides the draw completly (over the hmp to that massive 5lb hold wght) , they should be taken out of the bowseason.

[Upstater]

And trying to move a crossbow into position when the deer does not come into the same position that you have it resting will most likely get you busted as well. And since a ground blind hides the draw completly (over the hmp to that massive 5lb hold wght) , they should be taken out of the bowseason.

I'm not sure I see your point Steve.  I'm not taking exception to your assertion that ground blinds provide an unfair advantage (there's that "opinion" thing again) because it's not the issue.  If you're correct, and ground blinds are having as detrimental an effect on the season as x-guns will, why on Earth would you champion to have yet another detriment in archery season?  Surely you've heard the saying that two wrongs don't make a right?  Why not expend all of this energy you're spending pushing the crossgun to have ground blinds outlawed? I'm not sure I see your logic...

Nevertheless, your argument is a non-sequitur.  As I've said previously, it's a waste of time to argue emotional and opinion-based points of view.  I notice you haven't addressed my point of x-guns increasing "bowhunter" success rates to the point where the seasons are shortened...