For all you non-believers in Antler Restrictions

[sampotter]

Thanks for a non-confrontational remark.

[biggamefish]

  I don't agree with the high pressured area or high hunter numbers have small deer or deer that don't get over 1/12 years old.  I hunt in some very high number/presured area and see big deer every year.  I also put in a ton of time each year.  I think that has alot to do with seeing big bucks.  Getting a shot at one of those is a whole other topic.  I have some beautiful deer on the wall all from high hunter number areas.  They are there you just have to get lucky or outsmart those big deer.  That is why they are big!!

[shootstraight]

I have been hunting the same area as Fair Game for about 13 years. Before AR's you would see the occasional big buck. Since the AR you now see plenty of good sized bucks. I remember seeing a six pinter and I was in awe, now I see eight pointers and i complain that there to small. But it comes down to preference some people shoot for racks and some shoot for meat. No law will make everyone happy

[Tweesdad]

For whatever it's worth, I don't mount deer, I eat them.  Every deer I take reduces my annual meat bill.  Antler restrictions are only for the benefit of "trophy" hunters.  NY is trying to bring in more non-residents to pay big bucks to hunt big racks.

As far as I am concerned, antler stew tastes like crap, and this antler restriction nonsense is stupid.

Just my opinion, and I will not change my mind.

[SteveB]

They don't get that big by getting shot as 1.5 or 2.5 AR legal bucks.

There is no proof of hygrading anywhere.

Actually there is. Read about the results of 4 pt/side AR in Mississippi.

[Fairgame]

Actually I was reading about their ARs and they are still continueing.  Nowhere in anything I read yesterday did I see anything that refered to hygrading or that the deer are getting smaller.  Look at magnolia records and see how many big bucks come from every county.

http://www.mdwfp.com/level2/Wildlife/Game/Deer/magnoliarecords/search.asp

Besides opinions there is no proof of any of hygrading.  Find something thats not an opinion on it and I will gladly read it. 

[Doc]

Wow ..... another AR thread. I guess the arguments must get more convincing through quantity .... eh?  ;D

Might be a good idea to merge all 4 or 5 threads into one since they are all pretty much repeats of each other.

Doc

[Fairgame]

It should be all one. Same arguements on all.

Who can piss further?  Thats the question.

[SteveB]

http://www.mississippigameandfish.com/hunting/whitetail-deer-hunting/ms_aa122902a/index.html

The rule is designed to protect yearling deer, which it clearly accomplishes. In the process, however, it seems to best protect the yearling bucks produced each year with the smallest racks.

The second goal is to have these yearling deer that survive harvested in older age-classes. Unfortunately, there is no clear evidence that this is happening. On many WMAs, the total number of bucks harvested within older age-classes didn't change much. The major difference was that the average age of harvested bucks increased by only about a year. There was no significant increase in the number of 3 1/2- and 4 1/2-year-old bucks being harvested.

[wztirem]

http://www.mississippigameandfish.com/hunting/whitetail-deer-hunting/ms_aa122902a/index.html

The rule is designed to protect yearling deer, which it clearly accomplishes. In the process, however, it seems to best protect the yearling bucks produced each year with the smallest racks.

The second goal is to have these yearling deer that survive harvested in older age-classes. Unfortunately, there is no clear evidence that this is happening. On many WMAs, the total number of bucks harvested within older age-classes didn't change much. The major difference was that the average age of harvested bucks increased by only about a year. There was no significant increase in the number of 3 1/2- and 4 1/2-year-old bucks being harvested.

Its an interesting article. The second to last paragraph of the article pretty much sums up my concerns concerning AR. The one "one shoe fits all model" does not work for a diverse habitat. The program is inflexible to effectively manage the deer population and the results speak for themselves.

[Fairgame]

Steve,

I wanted proof not an opinion.  Your posting opinions on mississippi, but have no idea how its really working here in NY cause you are basing your opinion off of an opinion.  Never a fact.  You dont know how it was in before ARs in the areas that have it and it would be hard for someone that doesnt know how it was to say wether or not it is working today.

[SteveB]

Obvious that some just can't handle facts and logic - obvious there is nothing I can post to change that. The article I posted gave real info - how you can't see it is beyound me. Your opinions have even less hard evidence provided and yet should be accepted as gosphel. Keep your AR in your area - I don't care. But I think it's funny to let spikes and 4pts go and shoot basket racked 1.5 and 2.5's - still not letting anything mature. And don't try to tell me AR should be everywhere based on what you observe in your backyard. Mississippi has proven that inflexible methods can and do have negatives.

[Fairgame]

I never said to have it in your area.  I have always stated that it works cause I see the results in my area, an area that needed it.  You cant change The fact that I have been seeing more and bigger deer since these ARs were introduced.  You are providing information on Mississippi for one, not even NY. 

[wztirem]

Its important to keep an open mind concerning the long term effects of AR and to not jump to conclusions.The MS results ( and those of other states)are indeed worth considering and for any proponent/detractor of AR such findings are important. Short term results in many such deer management endeavors may be what they are and may not be beneficial over the long run. However the program in NY may perhaps be justified in the Pilot areas but not necessarily the entire state. The end usually justifies the means, I hope it works out for those in AR areas, but I for one I still consider the jury to be out.

The issue of AR and its implementation from a deer management point of view (for the entire state) as we know is a difficult undertaking for it changes the DEC's historic program as to how they manage a deer population. Such changes cost money to implement, which the DEC does not have.

Would the majority of hunters in NY be willing to finance a new and proactive approach to deer management? Probably not considering the state of the economy and if it we were, what guarantees would there be that the additional money generated from unpopular increased license fees would be earmarked for any additional programs?

The DEC has made their statement considering additional AR restrictions (it has been posted numerous times), is it true, one can only  wonder and argue (its okay) if they are right.

Consider the the lower portion of the southern region of NY, IE Westchester, Rockland, Orange and Suffolk Counties, the deer population is out of balance with the habitat and the consequences of such an overabundance of deer are apparent. AR would be a mistake. The same scenario may apply to other DMU's.

Its obvious that Deer Management priorities in NYS have become a contentious argument for many of us, but we are a vocal minority. Surveys undertaken to date are not representative of the the majority's opinion and should be considered as such.

The DEC is at a crossroads, hunter satisfaction, aging hunter population, lessening license sale etc... vs their state mandate. The future of hunting in NY is unclear and one should hope they make the correct decision. In the end we as a hunting fraternity will pay.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Very well put, Bill.

[bubba]

I can show you pics of bucs like that on trail cams too. In my area ar is not used. The pics, like those are night pics.  HMMMMM that tells me something  If you want to have all big bucks and harvest them, you better hunt at night when the big bucks move.  They learn to avoid humans during season to get that big.  If it is such a proven way to save the deer, and prodice huge deer,  I would like to see pics of all the monsters that have been harvested in the areas of NY that have AR.  You guys should have nothing smaller that 200  inch 12 point bucks by now.  Where are they? I am waiting.  Show me the proof if you want me to get on board. Not nite pics on trail cams, show me the proof on the ground.  Until then, you will not convince me.

[skyzmine]

my opinion on this is

NO!!!! to a AR... we dont need it.

if you want big bucks, buy your own land and put a wall around it.

other than that, stop complaining about it.....

what do you think your going to hit the woods and in as instance have a huge buck just walk by?

its called HUNTING...... do your homework and find them... they are there, you just cant find them and it makes you mad.. so, i know, lets do a AR so anyone can bag a big buck just by walking in the woods ;D

and kids sports scores dont matter and everyone wins.  GROW UP..  trophys arnt free....

man, i am so sick of hearing about needing a AR

i have been hunting my land for many many seasons, this year had the chance on a big buck and took it.

many years of trail cams,  many years of looking for the correct deer path's and trail's, hundreds of hour's

of being in the field, countless hour's of practice... that is what it takes..... NOT A AR

nothing in life is easy, you have to work for it.

not everyone can get the prom queen, the world is'nt like hue hef's mansion.

[nyantler]

Why Elitism?  Because he wants to put bigger deer and more of them on the wall? I have said it before and will say it again.. there isn't a single guy on this forum.. not ONE.. that if faced with the choice of 2 bucks standing in front of him.. one a spike and the other a 150 class 10-point ...wouldn't shoot the 10-pointer every time... so all you trophy hunter bashers   are just trophy hunters that haven't been lucky enough to kill your big buck yet..!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

How right you are and i sure would like to hear some arguements on that one!!!!

[First-light]

I can show you pics of bucs like that on trail cams too. In my area ar is not used. The pics, like those are night pics.  HMMMMM that tells me something  If you want to have all big bucks and harvest them, you better hunt at night when the big bucks move.  They learn to avoid humans during season to get that big.  If it is such a proven way to save the deer, and prodice huge deer,  I would like to see pics of all the monsters that have been harvested in the areas of NY that have AR.  You guys should have nothing smaller that 200  inch 12 point bucks by now.  Where are they? I am waiting.  Show me the proof if you want me to get on board. Not nite pics on trail cams, show me the proof on the ground.  Until then, you will not convince me.

Good point Bubba. We have picts of real nice bucks on our trail cam every year that nobody harvests. It makes you wonder where all these monsters roam. They are there and I for one don't think AR is the answer. We need to do a bit more hard hunting and stop depending on technology giving us the edge. I laugh all the time at the crap all these companies put out, "the buck bomb" give me a break! You here of one guy scoring with the product and it goes viral. Let's just get back to the basics and forget about all the crap they shove down our throats. It really makes me wonder where this all is going.

[Doc]

Why Elitism?  Because he wants to put bigger deer and more of them on the wall? I have said it before and will say it again.. there isn't a single guy on this forum.. not ONE.. that if faced with the choice of 2 bucks standing in front of him.. one a spike and the other a 150 class 10-point ...wouldn't shoot the 10-pointer every time... so all you trophy hunter bashers   are just trophy hunters that haven't been lucky enough to kill your big buck yet..!

I for one will take a big buck and be darned happy about it. Is that "elitism"? ..... Only if you go from that to trying to force that on other hunters or only when you begin to dictate what standards others have to adopt in order to be a proper hunter. Yeah, I guess that sort of thing smacks of elitism a bit. My enjoyment of taking a nice buck doesn't mean that I am ready to strap every hunter with all kinds of regulations just so I can do that. I don't really see so many "trophy hunter bashers" as I see a growing discontent with those that think that success has to be measured in inches and that all the rest of the hunting world has to change to satisfy that numerical evaluation of hunting satisfaction.

[bubba]

you nailed it doc.  It has went from enjoying taking a nice buck to trying to make it mandatory. Way too serious of a competition.  That so why people get shot is because most feel they have to out do the other. Shoot first go look after.  Quit watching the phony hunting shows on tv and use that time to scout a big deer.  Beat him at his game, not make him conform to your game. Let that be your competition. Night pics on a trail cam at a salt lick.  There is a justification for AR if I ever saw one.  :

[nuynai]

I buy a license that says"Buck Tag", not "government tells me what kind of buck I can shoot".

[burmjohn]

I buy a license that says"Buck Tag", not "government tells me what kind of buck I can shoot".

Actually they do tell you what you can shoot and what you can shoot it with.

[nyantler]

You guys are really don't understand us guys that hunt big bucks at all... it certainly has nothing to do with getting a bigger buck than anyone else... and we are much different from QDMers... Although I think deer management is a good thing when asked my opinion about it, my choice to only hunt bigger bucks has nothing to do with qdm. And all of the big buck hunters I know feel the same way. You fellas seem to think that our CHOICE to hunt bigger bucks has anything to do with what other hunters are doing...we couldn't care less... I hunt big bucks for one reason only.. because I totally enjoy it! I get absolutely no enjoyment out of killing younger bucks..sorry but I personally don't see the challenge in it. But, that doesn't mean I think I'm any better of a hunter than the next guy. And you're wrong Bubba, our way of hunting is far safer than the "shoot at anything hunter", we actually take a good look at what we will be shooting at long before we shoot. It is never a contest between us... and we don't see the necessity to kill a buck at all costs. In fact, we are perfectly ok with going without a buck if we can't kill on that meets OUR standards. It's funny how the guys that aren't big buck hunters seem to think they know anything about why me or my friends hunt that way. If you knew any of us you'd get a whole different impression of why we absolutely love hunting the way we do. Stop mixing us up with QDM proponants.. we are not those guys.