Antler Restrictions

[jetmec]

ok so we got one guy that is against being told what he can and cant take. but is hunting on private land that the owner has placed his own restrictions (being told what you can and cant take)?? there is plenty of public land at your disposal if your so against having restrictions.

[erussell]

Hey Russel, if u need help with the hemroids on your ass I will gladly shoot them off with my bow if you would like

Dont threaten me with a good time big boy!!

[jetmec]

@vet honestly what is your opinion about the restriction? and what do you think can be done to improve the quality of hunting in the future. keeping everyone happy. i agree with erussell eventually its going to come through the state. i personally like the 3 on one side but i also like the idea of earning a buck tag. since in that aspect you would still get to take any buck you would like but only after you fill your doe requirement beforehand. and that would keep the doe population somewhat in control and also would help ensure that the more dominant bucks are breeding the does.

[jetmec]

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 07:53 AM

i live and hunt in 3J and we were the first to have AR in NY state, started about 6 or so years ago. i have never shot a buck to small, i just sit and wait till i can count the antlers, then make the shot. its not really as tough as some hunters might think it is, i might add that AR has most of us hunting bigger bucks now anyway, not uncomman to see nicely racked 8 and even 10 pointers in my area now when 10 years ago we were dubbed the land of the spiked buck.

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[erussell]

I have family that hunts over the boarder in PA that say the same thing. At first they hated AR's because they were use to shooting the first spike or 4 point that came along and almost never saw anything near 120ish. Now they all kill big bucks every yr and like to rub it in with cell phone pic's as soon as they kill one. Its really kind of annoying but go's to show that it does work.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It didn't count as a doe when it was first imposed... there were no doe permits then... it was designed to protect does from being shot when deer were almost none existent in NY... I'm sure there were plenty of hunters back then that hated the law regardless of it's objective. So, maybe it shouldn't have been imposed on the hunting community?

We cant step backwards, the situation now is what it is. Now with DMPs and other antlerless tags, people can mistake a smaller spike, etc for a doe because the possibility of the ears masking small antlers is there. What should be done about that?

[WNYBuckHunter]

There are two sides to this, meat hunters and horn hunters. I am definitely a horn hunter and have hunted in Illinois and learned alot about management. I have taken many nice bucks with my bow and gun. (yes I gun hunt also). I have a very good friend who lives in PA and you know what? Him and his brothers are constantly taking nice bucks. The population of deer is abundant and they have much better quality deer there. When I go fishing, I have to throw back about 80% of the fish I catch because of restrictions of size and quanity. Not the greatest feeling in the world, but I can tell you that the fishing here on Long Island is GREAT because of it. You are right when you say it is "My Opinion". I havent shot a young buck in almost 15 years, but I cant say the same for my neighbors. I dont have the AR in my area , but we have tons of deer. Horrible Genetics too. I want it to improve and it never will without the restrictions. So that makes me an idiot? I pay just as much money for my license as you do. Why cant the quality of my hunting be better? Do any of you shoot coyotes when you see one that offers a shot? Why? To improve the quality of your hunting. Same thing. Little bucks dont excite me and get my heart pumping. I like to see them and enjoy their company, but I want the excitement of a big boy coming through my area. Is he gonna offer me a shot? Should I try to grunt him in? Thats my OPINION. You keep on killing whatever you want, I am not telling you what to shoot. I am however telling you how I feel.

Sorry, but you are wrong about what the sides are. There are many guys that I know that have very high standards for themselves, and love to hunt and shoot big bucks that do not agree with mandatory ARs.

Also, stop fooling yourself, ARs are not in place in Illinois or many of the other big buck states. There are other reasons in those states that bucks get as big as they do. You dont even have to look to other states, look at Western NY. We have no ARs out here, and the same long season as the rest of the state and we have alot of bruiser bucks. Please, explain how and why.

You say you have bad genetics in your area, well how is AR going to solve that little problem for you?

I dont think youre an idiot, I just think you have some of the facts wrong on this subject. Just my opinion.

[nyantler]

If you look back on this thread, although at this point who has the energy, I did say that I am willing to accept them and move on, because believe it or not, where I hunt, getting a buck every 3-4 years is about normal, so it won't be that much of a difference...as to the old restrictions , it has been in place as long as I remember, and has never been an issue.........but, passing on that 4pt or any other smallish buck that I get a chance at every few years will be something new.

I like the fact that at least you're being honest about why you aren't keen on AR's and havent tried to make a weak argument against them based on misinformation.... that I can except.

[jjb4900]

And like I said earlier, it doesn't take a genius to realize that AR's are probably a good idea.....there's probably a much better argument for them than against them, so I wouldn't even bother trying......and my opinion for not being overjoyed with them, is certainly not based on any scientific data.

[phade]

I have no desire for them out here in wNY.

I can maybe understand the eastern implementation based on hunter desire and the stats there....but 3 a side here? No way. Basket 8 1.5s are common enough here that even 4 a side wouldn't advance the class to the point of effectiveness. I've got enough of them on my wall from early on in my hunting career. Heck, I have a 12, arguably 13 point 1.5 y/o on the wall.

Plus, not a big fan of more control on hunting. Now, I would accept OBR. Give the hunter the DECISION to take the one buck he wants. I think the two tag thing is really what leads to a ton of 1.5s being killed. Although only a small number fill both tags, the common thinking is to put the first one down and "hold out." And, of course, the 1.5 is often the first trigger to be squeezed or arrow released.

[13BVET]

@vet honestly what is your opinion about the restriction? and what do you think can be done to improve the quality of hunting in the future. keeping everyone happy. i agree with erussell eventually its going to come through the state. i personally like the 3 on one side but i also like the idea of earning a buck tag. since in that aspect you would still get to take any buck you would like but only after you fill your doe requirement beforehand. and that would keep the doe population somewhat in control and also would help ensure that the more dominant bucks are breeding the does.

I've never given it any thought. I don't spend my time worrying about what other people are shooting-it's none of my business. I don't know where you're from, but we actually don't have all that much public land in Dutchess. And, quite frankly, it's none of your damned business where I hunt. Here's an idea-you worry about you, and I'll worry about me. You butt into my affairs, and we have a serious problem. Respect my space, I respect yours-it's very simple.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Listen, in a nutshell. If you stop killing young bucks, they will grow to be bigger bucks which will also Increase the Population of deer regardless of where you hunt.

Tha is one of the most ignorant comments I have heard on this topic. If you want to grow bigger bucks as part of a management program the last thing you want is the population growingand causing mor ecompetition for available food. You are posting all over these AR topics and I get yopu are all for making it easier for you to shoot a mount that you can puff your chest out about, but where are you hunting and how much time have you spent hunting in other parts of the state?

[WNYBuckHunter]

I have no desire for them out here in wNY.

I can maybe understand the eastern implementation based on hunter desire and the stats there....but 3 a side here? No way. Basket 8 1.5s are common enough here that even 4 a side wouldn't advance the class to the point of effectiveness. I've got enough of them on my wall from early on in my hunting career. Heck, I have a 12, arguably 13 point 1.5 y/o on the wall.

Plus, not a big fan of more control on hunting. Now, I would accept OBR. Give the hunter the DECISION to take the one buck he wants. I think the two tag thing is really what leads to a ton of 1.5s being killed. Although only a small number fill both tags, the common thinking is to put the first one down and "hold out." And, of course, the 1.5 is often the first trigger to be squeezed or arrow released.

I couldnt agree more.

I truly believe that a one buck rule would do much more for advancing the age class and educating hunters than any form of AR could.

[jetmec]

i mist be mistaken again?? i could care less where you hunt. i just find it funny that you are so against restrictions but yet you choose to hunt at a place where there are restrictions placed on you. lets not forget YUO shared that information i never asked where you hunt. honestly i could care less. why? it all boils down to this one simple fact. AR's are coming so when they do ill be looking through the for sale threads to find good deals on all of you winey bitches gear!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Good deals and easy bucks. ...your motto? whining and not being able to find mature bucks to hunt in an area without AR speaks to your ability or at least your effort. They are in every WMU .....AR or not. Just not behind every tree like many would want

Edited September 28, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

. Now, I would accept OBR. Give the hunter the DECISION to take the one buck he wants. I think the two tag thing is really what leads to a ton of 1.5s being killed. Although only a small number fill both tags, the common thinking is to put the first one down and "hold out." And, of course, the 1.5 is often the first trigger to be squeezed or arrow released.

That is SPOT ON!!!

[steve863]

I just heard on the radio that there have been a couple of escapees from an upstate insane asylum. Looks like they found their way to this forum! LOL Who would have thunk that they were such big AR supporters?? LOL

[jetmec]

Good deals and easy bucks. ...your motto? whining and not being able to find mature bucks to hunt in an area without AR speaks to your ability or at least your effort. They are in every WMU .....AR or not. Just not behind every tree

You seem keen to the one buck tag? And I agree with that. But it should not just be given to you. There should be a mandatory doe requirement before your buck. We took four doe last year and we plan on taking another four maybe 5 since we have a big heard. And we had multiple opportunity at decent bucks last year but we just felt that they weren't ready yet. Lets face the facts!! Most of these people will not shoot a doe and never will! Thinning the doe heard is ONE of the MANY key factors on having a healthy heard! Why is it that some of the largest bucks are taken from Long Island every year?

[steve863]

Good deals and easy bucks. ...your motto? whining and not being able to find mature bucks to hunt in an area without AR speaks to your ability or at least your effort. They are in every WMU .....AR or not. Just not behind every tree

You seem keen to the one buck tag? And I agree with that. But it should not just be given to you. There should be a mandatory doe requirement before your buck. We took four doe last year and we plan on taking another four maybe 5 since we have a big heard. And we had multiple opportunity at decent bucks last year but we just felt that they weren't ready yet. Lets face the facts!! Most of these people will not shoot a doe and never will! Thinning the doe heard is ONE of the MANY key factors on having a healthy heard! Why is it that some of the largest bucks are taken from Long Island every year?

Dude, to be honest with you, you don't know squat. Do you realize that many of the AR units in the Catskills either don't give out DMP's or give out very few? So how the hell will these people shoot several does before they shoot a buck?

The reason there are big bucks on LI is because it's a suburban environment with very limited hunter access. It is NOTHING like other deer habitats around NYS.

[jjb4900]

Yup, L.I. has a very high doe to buck ratio......and the bucks that live around the agricultural areas eat quite well, as do those that live on huge estates and developements that have thousands of dollars worth of shrub's to eat , add to that plenty of areas off limits to hunting and you have the perfect recipe to grow huge bucks.

[jetmec]

You are exactly correct about Long Island. But you forgot the key factor. They don't have all of you trigger happy impatient part time hunters killing the first thing that walks past your stand! That is the most important factor right there! And there is plenty of nutrition for them upstate also! So if you are so qualified on this subject what is the reason why most of the buck population does not grow like LI???

[Doewhacker]

You are exactly correct about Long Island. But you forgot the key factor. They don't have all of you trigger happy impatient part time hunters killing the first thing that walks past your stand! That is the most important factor right there! And there is plenty of nutrition for them upstate also! So if you are so qualified on this subject what is the reason why most of the buck population does not grow like LI???

Less land available for hunting on LI means the deer live longer, simple as that.

[YFKI1983]

I hunt on private property in 4O. I've gone full seasons with seeing nothing more then a spike and have gone seasons with seeing nothing. So your saying it makes me less of a hunter because I shoot the only meat I see? Some of us arent fortunate enough live so close to the woods that we'd able to hunt every day in the season

[jjb4900]

Love the "part time hunter" statement....what would constitute a full time hunter? gotta be someone who get's paid to do it like those guy's on TV.

[phade]

Good deals and easy bucks. ...your motto? whining and not being able to find mature bucks to hunt in an area without AR speaks to your ability or at least your effort. They are in every WMU .....AR or not. Just not behind every tree

You seem keen to the one buck tag? And I agree with that. But it should not just be given to you. There should be a mandatory doe requirement before your buck. We took four doe last year and we plan on taking another four maybe 5 since we have a big heard. And we had multiple opportunity at decent bucks last year but we just felt that they weren't ready yet. Lets face the facts!! Most of these people will not shoot a doe and never will! Thinning the doe heard is ONE of the MANY key factors on having a healthy heard! Why is it that some of the largest bucks are taken from Long Island every year?

EAB? Wow...just wow. Voodoo science. Good for CWD zones like Wisconsin...sure. Here...NO. EAB does nothing really. In fact, EAB was a pretty poor performer in Wisconsin. They still have it, but that's a special circumstance given CWD. Trust me when I say this, you invoke EAB, and you'll have worse hunting.

You are not going to "control" the population with that tool to improve the hunting. Localized areas (think Cornell program) do this to hack the numbers down...period...with no regard to caring for buck "growth".

Want to know the real-world implication? Shoddy buck fawn survival rate. That's right. Your little nubbers get whacked in large...the very same ones you want to protect. Wisconsin had this issue big time and still do in CWD - but again...that's a pure population control method. Hunters where it was in force willingly killed the very first non-legally antlered deer to get the buck tag. So, basically, you've accomplished nothing, and ended with the same root cause...EDUCATION.

Edited September 28, 2012 by phade