Antler Restrictions

[phade]

I dont understand why there is so much friction with this subject. You will all stand to gain in the long run and you dont seem to realize it. There are plenty of bucks that have 3 points on one side and would be legal to kill. I know, you disagree and im ignorant right? I think it is you who is the ignorant one. Im not going to have a "Peter Measuring Contest with you", but I will say that I have been hunting for a long time and have learned many things. I saw first hand how QDM works and was amazed at the results. You will still be able to fill your freezer, the buck will just be bigger than what you normally take. Do you think that spike or four pointer you pass up will vanish into the air only to never be seen again? He will be around the following year with more meat on him to put in your freezer. Its really very simple, but your not thinking big picture. Its not just about you, its about the whole entire state. Why cant NY be on the same level as the west or even PA? The guys I know in PA, absolutely love the AR program and consistently take nice bucks every year. There are also plenty of little 5 and 6 pointers roaming around there also and you would be well within your rights to shoot them.

Blah Blah Blah. You are talking out both sides of your mouth.

I have worked FOR the QDMA. Yeah, I said it. The QDMA paid me for work...I know what QDM can do. It's not equatable to regulation-level management. I have been to some of the best-managed properties in this state, so don't go thinking people know nothing about QDM here. There's also a few stone cold killers of mature bucks here that have tons of info you could really use.

As soon as life slows down, I'll probably do some more work for the QDMA.

You also probably have no idea of the class of bucks coming from parts of this state already. AR is not the regulatory answer. You have to plug the holes in the bucket...and it starts with tags and season structure and education. Period.

Edited September 28, 2012 by phade

[ncountry]

. You have to plug the holes in the bucket...and it starts with tags and season structure and education.

While I for the most part like what I have seen with AR areas, I would have to agree with what you said here.

On a side note , I am leaving the house right now! To set in my tree stand and harvest with my bow the 1st deer that weighs 120# +.

Tonight and 2 more days to use up a left over tag from last year.lol

Edited September 28, 2012 by ncountry

[WNYBuckHunter]

I dont understand why there is so much friction with this subject. You will all stand to gain in the long run and you dont seem to realize it. There are plenty of bucks that have 3 points on one side and would be legal to kill. I know, you disagree and im ignorant right? I think it is you who is the ignorant one. Im not going to have a "Peter Measuring Contest with you", but I will say that I have been hunting for a long time and have learned many things. I saw first hand how QDM works and was amazed at the results. You will still be able to fill your freezer, the buck will just be bigger than what you normally take. Do you think that spike or four pointer you pass up will vanish into the air only to never be seen again? He will be around the following year with more meat on him to put in your freezer. Its really very simple, but your not thinking big picture. Its not just about you, its about the whole entire state. Why cant NY be on the same level as the west or even PA? The guys I know in PA, absolutely love the AR program and consistently take nice bucks every year. There are also plenty of little 5 and 6 pointers roaming around there also and you would be well within your rights to shoot them.

I will tell you right now, from reading your posts, you have no idea what QDM is.

Btw, try subscribing to NY Outdoor News, lots of pics of great bucks taken from all over the state. Theres 3 main parts of NY that regularly produce giants that rival anything you see on TV. Long Island area, Western NY and the farm areas that skirt the ADKs. None of them have ARs.

The states that you keep mentioning (Illinois, Iowa, etc) do not have giants running around in every part of the state either, but I wouldnt think you would realize that. They also have very short gun seasons, one buck per year, tag drawings, a ton of locked up private land, and some of the best farm land in the world.

[Larry]

you wont see any big changes till 2016 by the dec

[13BVET]

I shoot as many does as I can and am legally allowed to and I am very Pro-AR. I just really want the 1.5 YO bucks to be safe for one year. Isnt one of the best parts of hunting the challenge of it? Anyone can outsmart a 1.5 YO buck.

So you're saying all those yearling does you're shooting are smarter that that 1.5 year old buck???? You just don't make any sense!

[13BVET]

Blah Blah Blah. You are talking out both sides of your mouth.

I have worked FOR the QDMA. Yeah, I said it. The QDMA paid me for work...I know what QDM can do. It's not equatable to regulation-level management. I have been to some of the best-managed properties in this state, so don't go thinking people know nothing about QDM here. There's also a few stone cold killers of mature bucks here that have tons of info you could really use.

As soon as life slows down, I'll probably do some more work for the QDMA.

You also probably have no idea of the class of bucks coming from parts of this state already. AR is not the regulatory answer. You have to plug the holes in the bucket...and it starts with tags and season structure and education. Period.

I agree 100%.

Edited September 28, 2012 by 13BVET

[13BVET]

I dont understand why there is so much friction with this subject. You will all stand to gain in the long run and you dont seem to realize it. There are plenty of bucks that have 3 points on one side and would be legal to kill. I know, you disagree and im ignorant right? I think it is you who is the ignorant one. Im not going to have a "Peter Measuring Contest with you", but I will say that I have been hunting for a long time and have learned many things. I saw first hand how QDM works and was amazed at the results. You will still be able to fill your freezer, the buck will just be bigger than what you normally take. Do you think that spike or four pointer you pass up will vanish into the air only to never be seen again? He will be around the following year with more meat on him to put in your freezer. Its really very simple, but your not thinking big picture. Its not just about you, its about the whole entire state. Why cant NY be on the same level as the west or even PA? The guys I know in PA, absolutely love the AR program and consistently take nice bucks every year. There are also plenty of little 5 and 6 pointers roaming around there also and you would be well within your rights to shoot them.

If there are plenty of bucks with at least 3 points, by your own admission, then what's your point with the AR's??

[13BVET]

Very heated thread!

Edited September 28, 2012 by 13BVET

[Single_shot]

I dont understand why there is so much friction with this subject. You will all stand to gain in the long run and you dont seem to realize it. There are plenty of bucks that have 3 points on one side and would be legal to kill. I know, you disagree and im ignorant right? I think it is you who is the ignorant one. Im not going to have a "Peter Measuring Contest with you", but I will say that I have been hunting for a long time and have learned many things. I saw first hand how QDM works and was amazed at the results. You will still be able to fill your freezer, the buck will just be bigger than what you normally take. Do you think that spike or four pointer you pass up will vanish into the air only to never be seen again? He will be around the following year with more meat on him to put in your freezer. Its really very simple, but your not thinking big picture. Its not just about you, its about the whole entire state. Why cant NY be on the same level as the west or even PA? The guys I know in PA, absolutely love the AR program and consistently take nice bucks every year. There are also plenty of little 5 and 6 pointers roaming around there also and you would be well within your rights to shoot them.

I hunted Pa and live in Pa all my life. It USED to be good till the AR BS. I got a decent buck just about every year till the AR BS started. It is NOT liked by anyone I know.Most down to earth hunters I know,are meat hunters and could care less about the deers age or what is on it's head.Why can't you rack hunters get it through your skull,that there are people out there that do not care about the rack or age of the deer? Meat in the freezer and a filled tag,a few days in the woods,a few days off of work and some fun times with hunting buddies. I lost out on too many deer that I just could not tell if it had brow tines.....so tag soup was made,all them days off of work that I DON"T get paid for and a few guys going home and back to work with a bad attitude because the tags were not filled. I would rather go home with a forkhorn than nothing at all.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Single_shot

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Bring back the days when the size of the deer is what mattered, not just the antlers. When I was a kid I only heard the quantity of points and that was it. No scores.

http://www.mikehanback.com/blog/index.cfm/2011/3/4/maine-deer-hunting-200-to-270-bucks-dressed-weight

[jjb4900]

I hunted Pa and live in Pa all my life. It USED to be good till the AR BS. I got a decent buck just about every year till the AR BS started. It is NOT liked by anyone I know.Most down to earth hunters I know,are meat hunters and could care less about the deers age or what is on it's head.Why can't you rack hunters get it through your skull,that there are people out there that do not care about the rack or age of the deer? Meat in the freezer and a filled tag,a few days in the woods,a few days off of work and some fun times with hunting buddies. I lost out on too many deer that I just could not tell if it had brow tines.....so tag soup was made,all them days off of work that I DON"T get paid for and a few guys going home and back to work with a bad attitude because the tags were not filled. I would rather go home with a forkhorn than nothing at all.

you pretty much summed up my feelings, these rules are ruining what hunting is to a lot of us.

[13BVET]

Not the first time I've read about negative feelings towards PA's AR's. I don't know how true it is, but a lot of posts I've read, also say that the deer numbers are in the gutter.

[Buckstopshere]

Well said Single_Shot. I live on the border and have hunted Pa. all my life too. Deer management in North Central Pa. is a disaster...since Gary Alt and the AR's came in...just look at the buck contests at the Potter Enterprise or Ackley's as a rule of thumb...the top bucks are no bigger than they ever were, but what is striking is the drop in the take and the huge amount of dissatisfaction. When I was young, we all wanted to go to Pa. to hunt deer. Now the Pa. hunters come to NY...if they can afford the non-resident tag! I love hunting Pa. and remember when it was good. I plan on hunting it again this year, but will hunt the border hoping the bucks will spill over from NY where there is no AR. My heart goes out to the Pa. hunters and hope that someday, the PGC will change and allow the deer population to build back up. Fact: The last two years, the deer population in 3A and 2G is lower in bucks per square mile than many of the Units in the Adirondacks!

I wrote about the comparison between NY and Pa. a couple years ago. IT's gotten worse!

http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/outdoors/x1146475392/Deer-tales-NY-and-Pa-two-side-by-side-management-plans

[jjb4900]

I remember when you bought your license and got one tag that was for buck only during the regular season and it could be used for either sex archery, if you were lucky enough to get one during archery season you could buy another for $5 to use for rifle...that and you also had a chance at the limited amount of doe tag's and if you still had one left over you could use it for either sex during late archery or muzzleloader......now they give out too many tags........saw a lot more deer back then before they complicated things.

[nyantler]

Not the first time I've read about negative feelings towards PA's AR's. I don't know how true it is, but a lot of posts I've read, also say that the deer numbers are in the gutter.

Depends on who you talk to i think.. I have heard the same kind of things from PA hunters... usually the successful guys love it the unsuccessful ones seem to hate it.

[G-Man]

First , you cant compare ny to other states. your big buck states, il,io,oh,ks,missouri for example. Their total number of deer hunters is less than half of the hunters in new york! The average land owner in new york is 50 acres or less, the other states 400 acres plus!! the hunter density per acre is much greater in ny than other "big buck states" their season are much shorter. Your comparing private land/lease with the rest of the state. are big bucks possible here ...yes! many land owners can manage their own harvest or may group together to control a bigger area. Our taxes are 4-5x as high as big buck states! for my own property almost $9,000 a year. i belive i have the right to choose what i shoot what i want size wise! if you want the big bucks here man up buy/lease land enforce your own restrictions. leave the rest of the 400,000 of 500 thousand hunters and myself to choose owr own trophys!

[Buckstopshere]

Right you are Joe. But all the regular guys I know are deeply dissappointed with the deer situation in Northcentral Pa. to say the least. So the vote is a landslide against!

There are a few who have a lot of acreage tied up, huge food plots that suck in the deer from all over, especially in poor mast years... and the wherewithal to hunt the whole season...they have big smiles.

But the regular guy who has to work, has a family to raise and not thousands of dollars to dump into food plots or can afford a big lease payment each month...is getting the short end of the stick. AR's and elietism seem to be walking hand-in-hand and I like to think that what should make the difference out in the woods is who is the best hunter and who is the best shot. But I am old-fashioned with old fashioned values.

[nyantler]

Right you are Joe. But all the regular guys I know are deeply dissappointed with the deer situation in Northcentral Pa. to say the least. So the vote is a landslide against!

There are a few who have a lot of acreage tied up, huge food plots that suck in the deer from all over, especially in poor mast years... and the wherewithal to hunt the whole season...they have big smiles.

But the regular guy who has to work, has a family to raise and not thousands of dollars to dump into food plots or can afford a big lease payment each month...is getting the short end of the stick. AR's and elietism seem to be walking hand-in-hand and I like to think that what should make the difference out in the woods is who is the best hunter and who is the best shot. But I am old-fashioned with old fashioned values.

Not having an AR in Pa isn't going to stop the few that have a lot of acreage tied up from continuing what they're doing though.... They will still suck the deer from all over without AR's they will just be younger deer.

[13BVET]

What has to be taken into account, at least for the time being, is that there are new hunters who have taken up the sport due to the poor economy. They have done this, of course, to put food in the freezer the cheapest way possible. So, would enacting AR's statewide have a negative impact on these people?

[jjb4900]

I hunt state land next to fairly large parcel's of private land, and these private land tract's are not agricultural, yet deer I shoot have stomach's full of corn and I regularly see squirrel's carrying corn cob's....crazy stuff to say the least.

[mxsmitz201]

I remember when you bought your license and got one tag that was for buck only during the regular season and it could be used for either sex archery, if you were lucky enough to get one during archery season you could buy another for $5 to use for rifle...that and you also had a chance at the limited amount of doe tag's and if you still had one left over you could use it for either sex during late archery or muzzleloader......now they give out too many tags........saw a lot more deer back then before they complicated things.

I never hunted in those days, but sounds like something i would implement again if i were dec.

Im not convinced at all with ARs but will admit i hunt horns first. I have 2 doe tags this year and plan to fill them early, ive always been told earlier the better.

But if ARs were in my wmu i know of a very respectable 1.5 yo buck that wouldnt make it through, hes a. 9 point, and if i hadnt known he was 1.5 i would have a hard time passing him up because as it is right now nice bucks are few and far between. Imo what i see with ARs now is a gradual depletion of good genetics. The 1.5s that made it through last year arent that much ahead of this particular deer and they were pathetic looking as 1.5s.

I think they should issue a "whhatever comes first tag". If you bow hunt it would be like an either sex tag but your regular season tag would become a doe tag if you shot a buck during bow. If you just hunt regular its still just a buck tag. Aka one buck per year. And so the state can really get their money if a bow hunter who intends to take a buck with their bow but wants the opportunity to take one with gun, charge like 20 for a buck tag. Just my opinion before i throw my post to the pack of wolves that await.

[Buckstopshere]

The few Pa. Hunters that are pro-AR that I know have a lot of time and wherewithal. That's my point.

It is a good question to ask about the young hunters coming into our sport that see deer hunting as first, a way to put good meat on the table and feed their families...maybe because a long time ago...I was that young man.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I remember when you bought your license and got one tag that was for buck only during the regular season and it could be used for either sex archery, if you were lucky enough to get one during archery season you could buy another for $5 to use for rifle...that and you also had a chance at the limited amount of doe tag's and if you still had one left over you could use it for either sex during late archery or muzzleloader......now they give out too many tags........saw a lot more deer back then before they complicated things.

The problem with the old system was that it let the deer overpopulate in many areas. The current system is better because it allows them to manage the herds by unit instead of with a broad brush like the days of old. Yes, deer numbers are down, but its beneficial to the herds in many areas.

[nyantler]

What has to be taken into account, at least for the time being, is that there are new hunters who have taken up the sport due to the poor economy. They have done this, of course, to put food in the freezer the cheapest way possible. So, would enacting AR's statewide have a negative impact on these people?

No one really knows... for a new hunter it may be hard seeing and killing a deer regardless of AR's.. their best chance is to get some doe tags and hunt where the doe populations are high... If I'm that desperate for food to feed my family that I'm going to kill my own... it wouldn't matter what the law was.

Edited September 28, 2012 by nyantler

[jjb4900]

The problem with the old system was that it let the deer overpopulate in many areas. The current system is better because it allows them to manage the herds by unit instead of with a broad brush like the days of old. Yes, deer numbers are down, but its beneficial to the herds in many areas.

and the new system has let the population get to an all time low in some areas...no easy fix for any of it