Interpretation of hunting hours

[jjb4900]

Where do you guys get this crap? I am not condoning road hunting but having a gun, unloaded in the car and driving slowly is NOT breaking any law. Put a spot light in their hand after hours and they are but in the day light it is legal. If you say it is not,......show me the law.

In most cases it's not, add 4 neighbor's calling in the same complaint about the same vehicle driving up and down the road and then throw someone hearing a shot....when DEC show's up, they find that same truck with an ungutted, still steaming deer in the bed of the truck with two guys in the front with a rifle and ammo between them.......can you understand these guys getting ticketed? add in that the only land around is your's, but nobody saw them do anything wrong.......but, a reasonable person can come to several intelligent conclusions.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

There doesnt have to be a law, here is why:

Prima facie evidence is that evidence which is sufficient to establish a fact or sustain a judgment unless it is rebutted or contradictory evidence is produced. The prima facie evidence rule does not shut out evidence; instead it declares that a particular conduct shall be enough as evidence until and unless the opposing party produces contradictory evidence.

I would take my chances in court any day with that BS ticket. Again how can they make this assertion of presumed hunting in this case and not ticket every CCW pistol permit holder?

[Sogaard]

This thread has been amusing the hell out of me. I can't believe so many of you "dead red" hunters are so willing to roll over and not stand up for personal liberties and rights when it comes to an ECON officer.

Remember, if you follow the chain of command up far enough, that ECON officer works for OBAMA! Maybe that will inspire you.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Sogaard

[mike rossi]

I would take my chances in court any day with that BS ticket. Again how can they make this assertion of presumed hunting in this case and not ticket every CCW pistol permit holder?

True, some of those tickets get thrown out of court. Personally I rather case my gun than deal with cops & courts, but to each his...

[Sogaard]

BTW, the main point of this thread was not defending people standing over steaming deer at 8PM. It was carrying a loaded rifle out of the woods after hours. I never unload my gun until I'm back at my truck. I've had a couple of close encounters with bears, and if a coyote decided to cross my path and I had a safe shot, I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity.

No one here is condoning shooting deer outside of legal hunting times.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Holy cow we are solid on the same side of a topic....LOL

[Ford]

I never really thought about unloading before walking out. My "hunting" stops a minute before legal shooting time ends. I hunt by the rules, the last thing I want while hunting is any hassles.

Same with duck hunting. Legal to shoot a half hour before sunrise. I give it an extra minute. Before cell phone times, I would give it a couple. Set up decoys, settle in, load the shotgun, then have some coffee, and wait.

Not saying that you should not unload, just that this is what I have always done.

[WNYBuckHunter]

In most cases it's not, add 4 neighbor's calling in the same complaint about the same vehicle driving up and down the road and then throw someone hearing a shot....when DEC show's up, they find that same truck with an ungutted, still steaming deer in the bed of the truck with two guys in the front with a rifle and ammo between them.......can you understand these guys getting ticketed? add in that the only land around is your's, but nobody saw them do anything wrong.......but, a reasonable person can come to several intelligent conclusions.

Come on man, you keep adding stuff to these circumstances that would warrant a ticket. First it was a gun and bullets in a slow moving car, then you add a complaint of shots after dark, then a gutted, steaming deer, now its ungutted with 2 guys in the car. You just keep throwing crap at the wall until something sticks.

Baiting.

[josephmrtn]

in my book a gun w a shell in the chamber is loaded no matter what, no shell = not loaded

so really u could just remove the shell from the chamber and leave the magazine in till u get to the truck 4 wheeler ect. apon which u need to remove that also

Edited October 23, 2012 by josephmrtn

[josephmrtn]

BTW, the main point of this thread was not defending people standing over steaming deer at 8PM. It was carrying a loaded rifle out of the woods after hours. I never unload my gun until I'm back at my truck. I've had a couple of close encounters with bears, and if a coyote decided to cross my path and I had a safe shot, I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity.

No one here is condoning shooting deer outside of legal hunting times.

thats exactly it!

i dont unload my gun till i get to my truck period then i remove the magazine and shell from the chamber

[Sogaard]

FYI:

When I write something, and CHC and WNY "like" it, the argument is pretty much over. We win.

[WNYBuckHunter]

thats exactly it!

i dont unload my gun till i get to my truck period then i remove the magazine and shell from the chamber

Better remove the rounds from the mag as well. Even if you dont agree with it, it is still considered loaded.

[WNYBuckHunter]

FYI:

When I write something, and CHC and WNY "like" it, the argument is pretty much over. We win.

LMAO, aint that the truth!

[jjb4900]

Come on man, you keep adding stuff to these circumstances that would warrant a ticket. First it was a gun and bullets in a slow moving car, then you add a complaint of shots after dark, then a gutted, steaming deer, now its ungutted with 2 guys in the car. You just keep throwing crap at the wall until something sticks.

Baiting.

my point is, that the totality of the situation situation should dictate the outcome, you can't tell me that the last scenario doesn't warrant action by an L.E.O.,..........I doubt there are many L.E.O.'s out there who sit at parking spots and hand out tickets as guys walk out of the wood's after sunset.

[d-bone20917]

There doesnt have to be a law, here is why:

Prima facie evidence is that evidence which is sufficient to establish a fact or sustain a judgment unless it is rebutted or contradictory evidence is produced. The prima facie evidence rule does not shut out evidence; instead it declares that a particular conduct shall be enough as evidence until and unless the opposing party produces contradictory evidence.

If there is no law then there is no violation. Prima facie deals with the evidence to prove there was an illegal act. To say there doesn't need to be a law for someone to get a ticket for breaking the law is ridiculous.

[WNYBuckHunter]

my point is, that the totality of the situation situation should dictate the outcome, you can't tell me that the last scenario doesn't warrant action by an L.E.O.,..........I doubt there are many L.E.O.'s out there who sit at parking spots and hand out tickets as guys walk out of the wood's after sunset.

I didnt say that the last scenario wouldnt warrant some more looking into.

[Nomad]

If anyone cares anymore,I just got off the phone with my friend who's friends with a differant Econ Officer then myself. They just spoke and this one said, basically the same as mine ," I could not care any less if your gun is loaded". "we know everyone walks in and out with them loaded,and its not enough to prove hunting,its common practice".

He too mentioned coyote hunting...

Now listen up, he did say in some areas you might find some guys who feel differant, but " around here we're not interested in breaking the balls of law abiding hunters ."

So it looks like we not only got the best hunting, but the best Econ Officers as well .

Edited October 23, 2012 by Larry302

[Dinsdale]

So it looks like we not only got the best hunting, but the best Econ Officers as well .

And the biggest amount of law breakin', truth stretchin', deer huntin' poachers ever did walk the face of the earth.

Bubba said so.

LOL

[RTF]

I think most if not all ECO's want hard evidence of illegal hunting. They are not going to waste their time on BS tickets that they know could ultimately get thrown out. They want a dead body and witnesses. I think this whole thread started because someone claimed that their "friends" were ticketed for hunting after hours by merely being in the woods after sunset during deer season. I have yet to hear anyone claim that they have been written up for a loaded gun after sunset on this forum.

[jjb4900]

yup, each L.E.O. set's their own limit for tolerance of what they'll accept......take a stop sign for instance, the law requires you to come to a full and complete stop, which means all forward motion ceases and the vehicle comes to rest on the chassis......some guy's may follow this to the extreme, while other's may say as long as you took the time to slow down and come to somewhat of a stop I'm not gonna break ball's......both are well within their authority to write a ticket...they have discretion on some violation's and can use it as they see fit.

[nyantler]

OK, let's remove the magazine part and say the ammo is well within your reach and would take little effort to load it into the gun, now what?

You can have a bullet in your hand as long as the gun is unloaded while in the vehicle...

[jjb4900]

You can have a bullet in your hand as long as the gun is unloaded while in the vehicle...

OK, I got this first hand from an ECO who told me they can and will charge having a loaded firearm for something like that IF there's more to it......

[nyantler]

If a gun is not loaded .. it is not loaded... you can not be arrested for a loaded gun that is not loaded.. he may be able to arrest you for something else like menacing if there are other factors involved... or some other charge related to whatever it is you are doing that seems fishy.. but he can not arrest you for having a loaded gun in the vehicle if the gun isn't loaded. A judge would just throw that charge out.

Although, if he thought that you had just unloaded the gun in the car.. that might be different.. but he would have to prove it.

Edited October 23, 2012 by nyantler

[jjb4900]

kinda like the guy only guy standing on a fishing pier with a bucket full of illegal fish that nobody saw him catch...when an ECO walks up do you honestly think the guy can say not mine? of course not, because any reasonable person would have either called DEC himself or not been near the bucket........how great would it be if all we had to say was "it wasn't me" or "I didn't do it" and the law was powerless?......the people who ask questions about the "interpretation's" of law's and what they can get away with are usually seeing what they can get away with, seen it hundred's of time's.

[Sogaard]

kinda like the guy only guy standing on a fishing pier with a bucket full of illegal fish that nobody saw him catch...when an ECO walks up do you honestly think the guy can say not mine? of course not, because any reasonable person would have either called DEC himself or not been near the bucket........how great would it be if all we had to say was "it wasn't me" or "I didn't do it" and the law was powerless?......the people who ask questions about the "interpretation's" of law's and what they can get away with are usually seeing what they can get away with, seen it hundred's of time's.

I don't see this as a fair comparison. If the fish are illegal and he has possession of the fish, actually seeing him pull the fish out of the water is not needed.

Having an unloaded weapon in my car is legal. Holding a bullet is legal.

This changes, of course, if the officer sees you fidgeting with your weapon as he approaches your car.