A little info , state comparisons

[G-Man]

I always get tired of comparisons to other states..  this hunter density is a good way to show that premium states have significantly less pressure per square mile. Its not their management  basically lot less hunters and take. Even if ny went to 1 buck limit (something  people think is key).. it wont help more hunters would just take available bucks

Info taken from kip adams article in quality whitetail spring mag if you want to read full article

Edited June 3, 2022 by G-Man

[Rack Attack]

G-man, I understand your point however I think the real outlier here is Wisconsin.  Wisconsin has similar hunter numbers per square mile as New York (12 vs. 13) yet has the most Boone and Crocket entries of any state.  What are they doing different?  Is is purely the terrain? The minerals?  A combination of all?

[Lawdwaz]

Sounds like we need lots of guys here in New York to just quit hunting.  Then the rest of us will kill big bucks like in Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas.   Awesome 

[G-Man]

2 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

Sounds like we need lots of guys here in New York to just quit hunting.  Then the rest of us will kill big bucks like in Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas.   Awesome 

Thats actually covered in entire article...

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, Rack Attack said:

G-man, I understand your point however I think the real outlier here is Wisconsin.  Wisconsin has similar hunter numbers per square mile as New York (12 vs. 13) yet has the most Boone and Crocket entries of any state.  What are they doing different?  Is is purely the terrain? The minerals?  A combination of all?

Land  use and  ownership.  And  tradition.  Many large bucks shot in ny every year  most are not scored or entered . 

Add in short seasons  , that alone allows many animal to move up in age class

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/dates

Edited June 3, 2022 by G-Man

[BizCT]

It's still genetics though, right? Even if someone had 2,000 acres in WNY in prime big buck land, could they run a successful outfitter business? The answer is no. As far as I know, there is a not a single highly successful deer hunting outfitter in NY. There's a ton of money in that business. If someone could do it, they surely would.

[Robhuntandfish]

i think you have to factor in the adirondacks to our NY equation.  The western, southern areas of the state produce a lot and some awesome bucks.  Go north to the large adirondack park and the numbers are just dismal due to habitat. Its like two completely different areas but all get lumped into one for NY.  I dont think a lot of states have such a big descrepency like this.  Would be interesting to just compare NY without the Dacks and see how it stacks up (referring to deer take rather than hunters PSM) 

51 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

G-man, I understand your point however I think the real outlier here is Wisconsin.  Wisconsin has similar hunter numbers per square mile as New York (12 vs. 13) yet has the most Boone and Crocket entries of any state.  What are they doing different?  Is is purely the terrain? The minerals?  A combination of all?

 

[Robhuntandfish]

23 minutes ago, BizCT said:

It's still genetics though, right? Even if someone had 2,000 acres in WNY in prime big buck land, could they run a successful outfitter business? The answer is no. As far as I know, there is a not a single highly successful deer hunting outfitter in NY. There's a ton of money in that business. If someone could do it, they surely would.

Ny you dont see many large expanses of thousands of acres too.  Most guys have their little areas to hunt where out west its often much larger blocks. Hard to buy 2000 acres here in NY and say your gonna be a hunting outfitter instead of buying that much for a building investment.  And how many out of state hunters would even consider going to NY as a hunting destination? Most people think we all live in NYC anyway. lol   

[G-Man]

30 minutes ago, BizCT said:

It's still genetics though, right? Even if someone had 2,000 acres in WNY in prime big buck land, could they run a successful outfitter business? The answer is no. As far as I know, there is a not a single highly successful deer hunting outfitter in NY. There's a ton of money in that business. If someone could do it, they surely would.

The world record deer  was in stuben county for years if i had 2000 acres here  the genetics are here  land ownership and hunter density is a huge factor.  Most properties here are under 40 acres  many are under 10..  you would need to lease from  hundreds of land owners to put that land together here or spend a fortune for buying it and nys taxes.. out west farms are 1000 acres or more and one owner could supply 10k acres of land.. 

Issue here is land ownership and size but could ny make record book bucks in a outfitter run property absolutly!

Edited June 3, 2022 by G-Man

[phade]

18 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

i think you have to factor in the adirondacks to our NY equation.  The western, southern areas of the state produce a lot and some awesome bucks.  Go north to the large adirondack park and the numbers are just dismal due to habitat. Its like two completely different areas but all get lumped into one for NY.  I dont think a lot of states have such a big descrepency like this.  Would be interesting to just compare NY without the Dacks and see how it stacks up (referring to deer take rather than hunters PSM) 

 

The hunter density would shoot up and be #1 if you had no Dacks in there IMO.

Density does make a big difference after hunting in the midwest the past two years. It's actually pretty amazing. Gives one a distaste for looking out and seeing the literal orange army here on opening day. 

[BizCT]

23 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

Ny you dont see many large expanses of thousands of acres too.  Most guys have their little areas to hunt where out west its often much larger blocks. Hard to buy 2000 acres here in NY and say your gonna be a hunting outfitter instead of buying that much for a building investment.  And how many out of state hunters would even consider going to NY as a hunting destination? Most people think we all live in NYC anyway. lol   

 

20 minutes ago, G-Man said:

The world record deer  was in stuben county for years if i had 2000 acres here  the genetics are here  land ownership and hunter density is a huge factor.  Most properties here are under 40 acres  many are under 10..  you would need to lease from  hundreds of land owners to put that land together here or spend a fortune for buying it and nys taxes.. out west farms are 1000 acres or more and one owner could supply 10k acres of land.. 

Issue here is land ownership and size but could ny make record book bucks in a outfitter run property absolutly!

Check out this gem > https://www.landwatch.com/cortland-county-new-york-recreational-property-for-sale/pid/412729947 We should all chip in and buy it as a forum! lol

[Nomad]

Interesting . 
The farm I hunt is 3000 acres, but it’s patchwork ,spread out . However there are large chunks, and many of the neighbors are on board with passing smaller bucks too, however that’s determined does vary though .

Good ag ground ,and each piece of ground is assigned to one or two guys . It’s rare for me to see another gun hunter from my spot . The difference in buck size over the years has been notable ,although the really big ones are seldom seen ,at least by me ! 
 

Im more interested in meat then horns, although there’s more meat on big bucks ….

[Robhuntandfish]

9 minutes ago, BizCT said:

 

Check out this gem > https://www.landwatch.com/cortland-county-new-york-recreational-property-for-sale/pid/412729947 We should all chip in and buy it as a forum! lol

i drooled over this for a long time - was my lotto dream!  minus the elk pen 

 

[Rack Attack]

49 minutes ago, BizCT said:

It's still genetics though, right? Even if someone had 2,000 acres in WNY in prime big buck land, could they run a successful outfitter business? The answer is no. As far as I know, there is a not a single highly successful deer hunting outfitter in NY. There's a ton of money in that business. If someone could do it, they surely would.

I don't think this is a true assumption.  The reason I say that is that a local indian nation purchased a bunch of property not far from me.  They have high fenced it and created a hunting preserve.  As part of it they partitioned off the property and in half of it they just allowed the native deer to grow to maturity and they are doing put and take in the other half.  This operation has been in play for about 5 years.  A friend of mine butchers all the deer taken on the property, and two bucks taken from the natural deer herd side of the property scored over 180", with multiple others in the 150-160" range.  So my point is that I think we have all the things we need except age. 

[Nomad]

10 minutes ago, BizCT said:

 

Check out this gem > https://www.landwatch.com/cortland-county-new-york-recreational-property-for-sale/pid/412729947 We should all chip in and buy it as a forum! lol

I’ll throw in 70k , or whatever amount is necessary to give me controlling interest .
 

here’s an old picture of some racks from a year end landowner ,Hunter meeting from where I hunt .

[BizCT]

I don't think this is a true assumption.  The reason I say that is that a local indian nation purchased a bunch of property not far from me.  They have high fenced it and created a hunting preserve.  As part of it they partitioned off the property and in half of it they just allowed the native deer to grow to maturity and they are doing put and take in the other half.  This operation has been in play for about 5 years.  A friend of mine butchers all the deer taken on the property, and two bucks taken from the natural deer herd side of the property scored over 180", with multiple others in the 150-160" range.  So my point is that I think we have all the things we need except age. 

And why the bow only areas grow bigger bucks


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[G-Man]

4 hours ago, BizCT said:

 

Check out this gem > https://www.landwatch.com/cortland-county-new-york-recreational-property-for-sale/pid/412729947 We should all chip in and buy it as a forum! lol

I have 300 ans paid a lot less than that. Still not big enough to manage properly 

[G-Man]

5 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

Ny you dont see many large expanses of thousands of acres too.  Most guys have their little areas to hunt where out west its often much larger blocks. Hard to buy 2000 acres here in NY and say your gonna be a hunting outfitter instead of buying that much for a building investment.  And how many out of state hunters would even consider going to NY as a hunting destination? Most people think we all live in NYC anyway. lol   

There are a lot of ohio and Missouri hunters that come to new york for long seasons and ample tags..

[Robhuntandfish]

6 minutes ago, G-Man said:

There are a lot of ohio and Missouri hunters that come to new york for long seasons and ample tags..

Maybe in WNY.. lol.  Def not out here.  You guys have it too good out there. 

[DirtTime]

The only issue I have with those articles and stats are is not accurate information. They take the amount of licenses and then calculate it by rural areas where hunting is possible. If you go north, you can spend the entire season hunting miles and miles of land and never see another person. The SZ has the largest percentage of hunters, due to success rate, in a fairly big way. The majority of deer hunters are going to hunt the percentage, and many hunt private land over food plots VS heading into the true wilds of this state. Nothing wrong with hunting the percentage, nothing at all, that's not my point. Hit the Albany Pine Bush on a given day and odds are you'll see more hunters than you will in the same area size wise in Benson. Go a little further north on some back roads, and you won't see a car for miles.

[escpen]

6 hours ago, G-Man said:

The world record deer  was in stuben county for years ...

What buck are you referring to?  Until recently, the state record typical and non-typical bucks were taken in Allegany county shortly after seasons opened up to allow deer hunting, I think in the late 1930s. 

[BizCT]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

I have 300 ans paid a lot less than that. Still not big enough to manage properly 

I didnt mean to hunt. I meant for a forum clubhouse for meetings and GTG's

[phade]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:22 PM, Robhuntandfish said:

Maybe in WNY.. lol.  Def not out here.  You guys have it too good out there. 

I can't imagine that is accurate. Alot is subjective of course. One may say five people is alot, I guess.

When I am in Missouri, nobody ever talks about going to NY. Nobody. Ever. Not even to visit for non-hunting, LOL.

[The_Real_TCIII]

Seven week gun season isnt helping


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[Four Seasons]

6 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Seven week gun season isnt helping


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Exactly. Ny takes guns out of the rut and implements 1 week season and it’s a total different ball game.