Carry permits, jokes on you suckers !

[Grouse]

Hard to argue with the reality of the situation Biden supporters have put all of the regular folks in , isn't it?

[dbHunterNY]

Talked to the rensselear county pistol clerk yesterday. Everyone with a type F (unrestricted/carry concealed) permit better brace yourselves. It could get rough. You won't be grandfathered in and still have to go through the same qualifications as someone who's newly applying for one. Written exam (80% to pass), social media accounts turned over and checked, and a live fire evaluation that quals haven't even been established yet. LEOs not exempt so I'm thinking it's when they aren't on duty and want to carry.
All this happens September 1st when the law is written to go into effect unless they put a stay on it because they don't even have instructors for the evaluations selected yet.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

[Moho81]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

Talked to the rensselear county pistol clerk yesterday. Everyone with a type F (unrestricted/carry concealed) permit better brace yourselves. It could get rough. You won't be grandfathered in and still have to go through the same qualifications as someone who's newly applying for one. Written exam (80% to pass), social media accounts turned over and checked, and a live fire evaluation that quals haven't even been established yet. LEOs not exempt so I'm thinking it's when they aren't on duty and want to carry.
All this happens September 1st when the law is written to go into effect unless they put a stay on it because they don't even have instructors for the evaluations selected yet.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 

I did not write out the below information. This was done by the Wayne County Clerk and emailed out to SCOPE members. I thought it did a fair job of explaining some of the new stuff and it seemed to align with a lot that I have already heard but now it's slightly more than just rumors. 

 

This is the most up to date information on Fire Arm Regulation that we have received from the State Police: If any of this information appears confusing or contradictory it probably is. The County Clerk shares your frustration with this situation and the unfair penalties our law abiding citizens are being put through.

SUMMARY:

1) For the removal of restrictions in Wayne County an amendment will need to be submitted to the County Clerk’s Office for the Judge to review.

2) We are waiting for greater clarification on the details mentioned below. As I receive more information I will post it on the County Clerk’s web page. Anything in this memo is subject to revision and update.

3) The Judge as certifying officer has significantly increased responsibilities. As we receive details and direction from the Court I will be sure to make the public aware.

4) Much of the issuing authority on pistol permits has been moved from our local County Judges and has been transferred to the State Police. Time will tell what this means.

5) The new statute removes the Sheriff’s office from doing pistol permit background investigations and transfers the responsibility to the State Police.

LIFTING OF RESTRICTIONS ON A PISTOL PERMIT

1) Anyone wishing to have restrictions removed from their pistol permit will need to file an amendment for the judge to review and consider. The amendment fee is $3 amendment fee and $10 card fee.

2) Restriction removal is not automatic. An amendment requesting removal will need to be filed.

3) Please note that everything is subject to change due to actions yet to be taken by the Governor and Legislature.

HOCHUL PISTOL PERMIT RESTRICTIONS LAW

In a period of six hours the Hochul Pistol Permit Restrictions law was released to the public and then signed into law. We are in the process of trying to understand what was passed and what it means. Here is what has been gleaned from the statute so far:

1. The "good moral character" eligibility requirement for all pistol permits (concealed or otherwise) will be defined in greater detail in the law. Going forward it shall 2 mean "having the essential character, temperament and judgement necessary to be entrusted with a weapon and to use it only in a manner that does not endanger oneself or others."

2. New requirements will need to be met specifically for concealed-carry permit applicants. An applicant for such a permit: a. Cannot have been convicted of Assault 3rd, misdemeanor DWI, or menacing within 5 years prior to application b. The applicant must meet in person with the Judge for an in-person interview c. The applicant must submit to the Judge and investigating agency the names and contact information of the applicant's spouse, domestic partner and any other adults residing in the applicant's home, as well as indicate whether or not there are children living at the applicant's home, even parttime. d. The names and contact information of 4 references who can speak to the applicant's good moral character, and who can also attest that the applicant has not made any statements or taken any action that would lead them to believe that the applicant would harm themselves or others. e. Certification of completion of the new training requirement (more on this below) f. A list of former and current social media accounts from the past 3 years must be disclosed to the Judge and investigating agency. However the legislation does not require that the applicant provide access to these accounts.

3. Prior to the issuance of a concealed carry permit, an applicant must complete an "in-person live firearms safety course." Such course must be: a. Conducted by a duly authorized instructor. The definition of who is an authorized instructor and who does the authorizing has not been determined by the State Police. b. At least 16 hours long c. Covering those topics required by DCJS, which include things like general firearm safety, safe storage requirements, conflict de-escalations, best practices when encountering law enforcement, a minimum of 2 hours of live-fire range training, etc. PL section 265.20 would be amended to grant an exemption from prosecution for possessing a pistol without a license for the purposes of such training. d. Current concealed carry pistol permit holders would need to complete this training course prior to their next recertification. It must only be completed once, not upon every subsequent renewal.

4. Concealed carry pistol permits will have to be recertified every 3 years, as opposed to the standard 5 years. Licenses that were issued over 3 years prior to the effective date of this legislation would have to be recertified within 1 year. 3

5. The Judge will be granted the discretion to revoke or suspend any license if the possessor engaged in acts that would have been grounds for denial of the granting of the license in the first place. Judges must give written and specific reasons for denials so applicants know what to expect. Additionally, a licensing officer must revoke a license if it becomes know that the applicant made a materially false statement on his or her application.

6. Denials, suspensions, and revocations of licenses can be appealed but will no longer be handled by a local judge. Appeals will be reviewed by an "appeals board" that will be created by State Police. DCJS in cooperation with the State Police, will be responsible for promulgating rules and regulations with regard to the operation of the board

7. The legislation also creates the crime of possession of a firearm, rifle or shotgun in a "sensitive location". This would be a class E felony. Police officers, peace officers, active-duty military personnel, and persons engaged in lawful hunting activity would be exempted. Sensitive places are defined as:

a. Federal, State and local government property

b. Any place that provides healthcare, mental health care, or addiction treatment services

c. Any place of worship or religious observations

d. Public parks, public playgrounds, zoos and libraries

e. Any place, or the location of any program, licensed, regulated, or operated by DOH, OASAS, OCFS, OMH or OPWDD.

f. Nurseries, preschools and summer camps

g. Homeless shelters, youth homes, family shelters, DV shelters, etc.

h. Schools of all education levels

i. Public transportation

j. Any establishment that serves alcohol

k. Entertainment venues such as stadiums, concert halls, racetracks, museums amusement parks, conference centers, etc.

l. Polling places

m. Any public sidewalk or property that restricted from general public access for a special event that has been issued a permit for the same

n. Any gathering of individuals to collectively express their constitutional rights to protest or assemble

o. Times Square

There is no list of locations where it is acceptable to carry your weapon concealed in New York State

8. This legislation demands the creation of an ammunition sales database maintained by the State Police. "There shall be a statewide license and record database specific for ammunition sales which shall be created and maintained by the State police the cost of which shall not be borne by any municipality no later than thirty days upon designating the division of state police as the point of 4 contact to perform both firearm and ammunition back- ground checks under federal and state law. "

9. The legislation would require that firearms dealers record all ammunition sales in the database. The records maintained in this database would not be subject to FOIL and will be maintained by the State Police.

10.Firearm owners would have new safe storage requirements when leaving weapons in their vehicles. Guns left in a vehicle would first have to have the ammunition removed, and then the gun would have to be locked in a "safe storage depository" somewhere out of sight from outside the vehicle.

11.The Law creates new home safe storage requirements for when an individual cohabitates with or has present an individual under the age of 18, up from 16. It has not been determined which police agency will be responsible to policing the home storage and what the penalty for non compliance would be.

12.DCJS will be tasked with conducting NICS checks for every firearm and ammunition purchase made in New York State. How this is supposed to happen or if there is a fee has not been determined

13.The Sheriff’s office or local police agencies will no longer be conducting background investigations for pistol permits. The entire process has been centralized under the State Police and DCJS in Albany. Quote: “Upon receiving a request from a licensed dealer pursuant to section eight hundred ninety-six or eight hundred ninety-eight of the general business law, the division shall initiate a background check by (i) contacting the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) or its successor to initiate a national instant criminal background check, and (ii) consulting the statewide firearms license and records database established pursuant to subdivision three of this section, in order to determine if the purchaser is a person described in sections 400.00 and 400.03 of the penal law, or is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm or ammunition.”

14. The effective dates of these statutes appears to be a blend of conflicting dates and feasible compliance of September 1, 2022 and April 2023. We are waiting for clarification.

SEMI AUTOMATIC RIFLE PERMITTING

IF YOU HAVE A PISTOL PERMIT

At this time we have not received any information or forms from the courts or the state police. When we have more we will update this page. This requirement is supposed to go into effect on September 1.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PISTOL PERMIT

At this time we have not received any information or forms from the courts or the state police. When we have more we will update this page. This requirement is supposed to go into effect on September 1.

RECERTIFICATION

1) The New York State Police web site for filing your pistol permit recertification. The paper application is posted on this site as well. https://troopers.ny.gov/Firearms/

2) The Hochul Pistol permit restrictions law now requires that all permit holders must pass a 16 hour gun safety class with 2 hours of live fire training prior to recertification. We do not have information on when this will take effect or what the training will look like. Best advice is to continue recertifying as normal until we hear differently from the state police.

3) If you held a pistol permit prior to January 31, 2013 your second pistol permit recertification will need to be done by January 31, 2023. After that date, recertification is due every 3 years from the date of issuance.

4) You can check the expiration of your recertification on the State Police Web Site mentioned above.

5) If the form is submitted electronically the permit holder will receive a receipt that can be printed out. If submitted by mail it was recommended that the application be sent by certified mail so that there will be proof of mailing.

6) Regardless of being filed electronically or by paper, a permit holder can check the status of their recertification on the state police web site.

7) If you have a NICS check by a dealer you still need to recertify with the State Police.

8.  If you have a Brady check by the County Clerk’s Office you still need to recertify with the State Police.

9) Semi Automatic permits will need to be rescheduled on this same schedule.

QUESTIONS: Mike Jankowski, Wayne County Clerk [email protected] (315) 946-7470

New York State Police Web Site: http://www.troopers.ny.gov/ (1-855-529-4867)

[Robhuntandfish]

Oneida county said after the Supreme court rule that if you have restrictions on your permit, you now do not.  Then when the Hochul law came out they basically said - we cant do any of this....  And this is from a very strict county and judge that will not issue ANY unrestricted permits.  

The NY Sherriffs assoc sent this letter.  Kudos to them! https://nysheriffs.org/statement-concerning-new-yorks-new-firearms-licensing-laws/

[dbHunterNY]

I did not write out the below information. This was done by the Wayne County Clerk and emailed out to SCOPE members. I thought it did a fair job of explaining some of the new stuff and it seemed to align with a lot that I have already heard but now it's slightly more than just rumors. 
 
This is the most up to date information on Fire Arm Regulation that we have received from the State Police: If any of this information appears confusing or contradictory it probably is. The County Clerk shares your frustration with this situation and the unfair penalties our law abiding citizens are being put through.
SUMMARY:
1) For the removal of restrictions in Wayne County an amendment will need to be submitted to the County Clerk’s Office for the Judge to review.
2) We are waiting for greater clarification on the details mentioned below. As I receive more information I will post it on the County Clerk’s web page. Anything in this memo is subject to revision and update.
3) The Judge as certifying officer has significantly increased responsibilities. As we receive details and direction from the Court I will be sure to make the public aware.
4) Much of the issuing authority on pistol permits has been moved from our local County Judges and has been transferred to the State Police. Time will tell what this means.
5) The new statute removes the Sheriff’s office from doing pistol permit background investigations and transfers the responsibility to the State Police.
LIFTING OF RESTRICTIONS ON A PISTOL PERMIT
1) Anyone wishing to have restrictions removed from their pistol permit will need to file an amendment for the judge to review and consider. The amendment fee is $3 amendment fee and $10 card fee.
2) Restriction removal is not automatic. An amendment requesting removal will need to be filed.
3) Please note that everything is subject to change due to actions yet to be taken by the Governor and Legislature.
HOCHUL PISTOL PERMIT RESTRICTIONS LAW
In a period of six hours the Hochul Pistol Permit Restrictions law was released to the public and then signed into law. We are in the process of trying to understand what was passed and what it means. Here is what has been gleaned from the statute so far:
1. The "good moral character" eligibility requirement for all pistol permits (concealed or otherwise) will be defined in greater detail in the law. Going forward it shall 2 mean "having the essential character, temperament and judgement necessary to be entrusted with a weapon and to use it only in a manner that does not endanger oneself or others."
2. New requirements will need to be met specifically for concealed-carry permit applicants. An applicant for such a permit: a. Cannot have been convicted of Assault 3rd, misdemeanor DWI, or menacing within 5 years prior to application b. The applicant must meet in person with the Judge for an in-person interview c. The applicant must submit to the Judge and investigating agency the names and contact information of the applicant's spouse, domestic partner and any other adults residing in the applicant's home, as well as indicate whether or not there are children living at the applicant's home, even parttime. d. The names and contact information of 4 references who can speak to the applicant's good moral character, and who can also attest that the applicant has not made any statements or taken any action that would lead them to believe that the applicant would harm themselves or others. e. Certification of completion of the new training requirement (more on this below) f. A list of former and current social media accounts from the past 3 years must be disclosed to the Judge and investigating agency. However the legislation does not require that the applicant provide access to these accounts.
3. Prior to the issuance of a concealed carry permit, an applicant must complete an "in-person live firearms safety course." Such course must be: a. Conducted by a duly authorized instructor. The definition of who is an authorized instructor and who does the authorizing has not been determined by the State Police. b. At least 16 hours long c. Covering those topics required by DCJS, which include things like general firearm safety, safe storage requirements, conflict de-escalations, best practices when encountering law enforcement, a minimum of 2 hours of live-fire range training, etc. PL section 265.20 would be amended to grant an exemption from prosecution for possessing a pistol without a license for the purposes of such training. d. Current concealed carry pistol permit holders would need to complete this training course prior to their next recertification. It must only be completed once, not upon every subsequent renewal.
4. Concealed carry pistol permits will have to be recertified every 3 years, as opposed to the standard 5 years. Licenses that were issued over 3 years prior to the effective date of this legislation would have to be recertified within 1 year. 3
5. The Judge will be granted the discretion to revoke or suspend any license if the possessor engaged in acts that would have been grounds for denial of the granting of the license in the first place. Judges must give written and specific reasons for denials so applicants know what to expect. Additionally, a licensing officer must revoke a license if it becomes know that the applicant made a materially false statement on his or her application.
6. Denials, suspensions, and revocations of licenses can be appealed but will no longer be handled by a local judge. Appeals will be reviewed by an "appeals board" that will be created by State Police. DCJS in cooperation with the State Police, will be responsible for promulgating rules and regulations with regard to the operation of the board
7. The legislation also creates the crime of possession of a firearm, rifle or shotgun in a "sensitive location". This would be a class E felony. Police officers, peace officers, active-duty military personnel, and persons engaged in lawful hunting activity would be exempted. Sensitive places are defined as:
a. Federal, State and local government property
b. Any place that provides healthcare, mental health care, or addiction treatment services
c. Any place of worship or religious observations
d. Public parks, public playgrounds, zoos and libraries
e. Any place, or the location of any program, licensed, regulated, or operated by DOH, OASAS, OCFS, OMH or OPWDD.
f. Nurseries, preschools and summer camps
g. Homeless shelters, youth homes, family shelters, DV shelters, etc.
h. Schools of all education levels
i. Public transportation
j. Any establishment that serves alcohol
k. Entertainment venues such as stadiums, concert halls, racetracks, museums amusement parks, conference centers, etc.
l. Polling places
m. Any public sidewalk or property that restricted from general public access for a special event that has been issued a permit for the same
n. Any gathering of individuals to collectively express their constitutional rights to protest or assemble
o. Times Square
There is no list of locations where it is acceptable to carry your weapon concealed in New York State
8. This legislation demands the creation of an ammunition sales database maintained by the State Police. "There shall be a statewide license and record database specific for ammunition sales which shall be created and maintained by the State police the cost of which shall not be borne by any municipality no later than thirty days upon designating the division of state police as the point of 4 contact to perform both firearm and ammunition back- ground checks under federal and state law. "
9. The legislation would require that firearms dealers record all ammunition sales in the database. The records maintained in this database would not be subject to FOIL and will be maintained by the State Police.
10.Firearm owners would have new safe storage requirements when leaving weapons in their vehicles. Guns left in a vehicle would first have to have the ammunition removed, and then the gun would have to be locked in a "safe storage depository" somewhere out of sight from outside the vehicle.
11.The Law creates new home safe storage requirements for when an individual cohabitates with or has present an individual under the age of 18, up from 16. It has not been determined which police agency will be responsible to policing the home storage and what the penalty for non compliance would be.
12.DCJS will be tasked with conducting NICS checks for every firearm and ammunition purchase made in New York State. How this is supposed to happen or if there is a fee has not been determined
13.The Sheriff’s office or local police agencies will no longer be conducting background investigations for pistol permits. The entire process has been centralized under the State Police and DCJS in Albany. Quote: “Upon receiving a request from a licensed dealer pursuant to section eight hundred ninety-six or eight hundred ninety-eight of the general business law, the division shall initiate a background check by (i) contacting the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) or its successor to initiate a national instant criminal background check, and (ii) consulting the statewide firearms license and records database established pursuant to subdivision three of this section, in order to determine if the purchaser is a person described in sections 400.00 and 400.03 of the penal law, or is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm or ammunition.”
14. The effective dates of these statutes appears to be a blend of conflicting dates and feasible compliance of September 1, 2022 and April 2023. We are waiting for clarification.
SEMI AUTOMATIC RIFLE PERMITTING
IF YOU HAVE A PISTOL PERMIT
At this time we have not received any information or forms from the courts or the state police. When we have more we will update this page. This requirement is supposed to go into effect on September 1.
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PISTOL PERMIT
At this time we have not received any information or forms from the courts or the state police. When we have more we will update this page. This requirement is supposed to go into effect on September 1.
RECERTIFICATION
1) The New York State Police web site for filing your pistol permit recertification. The paper application is posted on this site as well. https://troopers.ny.gov/Firearms/
2) The Hochul Pistol permit restrictions law now requires that all permit holders must pass a 16 hour gun safety class with 2 hours of live fire training prior to recertification. We do not have information on when this will take effect or what the training will look like. Best advice is to continue recertifying as normal until we hear differently from the state police.
3) If you held a pistol permit prior to January 31, 2013 your second pistol permit recertification will need to be done by January 31, 2023. After that date, recertification is due every 3 years from the date of issuance.
4) You can check the expiration of your recertification on the State Police Web Site mentioned above.
5) If the form is submitted electronically the permit holder will receive a receipt that can be printed out. If submitted by mail it was recommended that the application be sent by certified mail so that there will be proof of mailing.
6) Regardless of being filed electronically or by paper, a permit holder can check the status of their recertification on the state police web site.
7) If you have a NICS check by a dealer you still need to recertify with the State Police.
8.  If you have a Brady check by the County Clerk’s Office you still need to recertify with the State Police.
9) Semi Automatic permits will need to be rescheduled on this same schedule.
QUESTIONS: Mike Jankowski, Wayne County Clerk [email protected] (315) 946-7470
New York State Police Web Site: http://www.troopers.ny.gov/ (1-855-529-4867)

Everything seems in line with what I've been told. I didn't pick up on any discrepancy.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

So to sum it up, the SCOTUS said NY was violating Constitutional rights and NY responds with a "Hold My Beer" list of rights violations.

Yet people will argue Democrats do not ignore the Constitution and hate the Rule of Law.  Those folks don't seem to know the definition of "totalitarian".

[Nomad]

Our county clerk did a radio interview in which she said ,Monroe county has between 60000 and 70000 concealed carriers and adds 2000 per year .

The judges said they don’t know how they can interview 2000 every year. There’s absolutely no way they can interview / and process the existing 60-70k carriers that have to renew over the up coming three years and go through the process as if they’re new application’s.

Not to,mention how these numbers can all take a 16 hour class with live fire , which doesn’t yet even exist.

Ive had multiple training classes, Hunter ed, Florida’s and Utah’s training class of four hours each , and others I I took on my own . I also took the training to teach Hunter ed of which firearm safety and handling was a big part .

Mrs Nomad and I just renewed our permits, so we’re good for three years ,and by then hopefully it’s all struck down . I also co registered my guns on three other permits in different parts of the state , in case I lose my NY permit .

Don’t forget you’ll need a fire proof gun safe in your vehicles ,for your long guns If you leave them unattended,like buying food on the way to camp , or running to town for lunch and not having a camp or house to store them in . Otherwise you face a felony haha . “But  but but I just own a couple hunting guns “ ya they don’t like you either .

[BizCT]

Our county clerk did a radio interview in which she said ,Monroe county has between 60000 and 70000 concealed carriers and adds 2000 per year .
The judges said they don’t know how they can interview 2000 every year. There’s absolutely no way they can interview / and process the existing 60-70k carriers that have to renew over the up coming three years and go through the process as if they’re new application’s.
Not to,mention how these numbers can all take a 16 hour class with live fire , which doesn’t yet even exist.
Ive had multiple training classes, Hunter ed, Florida’s and Utah’s training class of four hours each , and others I I took on my own . I also took the training to teach Hunter ed of which firearm safety and handling was a big part .
Mrs Nomad and I just renewed our permits, so we’re good for three years ,and by then hopefully it’s all struck down . I also co registered my guns on three other permits in different parts of the state , in case I lose my NY permit .
Don’t forget you’ll need a fire proof gun safe in your vehicles ,for your long guns If you leave them unattended,like buying food on the way to camp , or running to town for lunch and not having a camp or house to store them in . Otherwise you face a felony haha . “But  but but I just own a couple hunting guns “ ya they don’t like you either .

Seems easier to just sell & move. I live in the town right next to Sandy Hook. When you buy a pistol, it takes 10-15min to fill out a form On iPad while they call it in over the phone and then you walk out with gun. Open or Concealed Carry are both fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, BizCT said:

Seems easier to just sell & move. I live in the town right next to Sandy Hook. When you buy a pistol, it takes 10-15min to fill out a form On iPad while they call it in over the phone and then you walk out with gun. Open or Concealed Carry are both fine.

How long do you think that will be the case?  Where will you move when it happens in CT?

[Grouse]

Dr. John Lott has a new piece at Real Clear Politics.

When a local reporter in Albany, New York, asked Gov. Kathy Hochul if she had “the numbers to show it’s the concealed carry permit holders that are committing crimes,” Hochul dismissed the question outright. “I don’t need to have numbers,” Hochul said. “I don’t need to have a data point to say this.”

The reporter, Anne McCloy, persisted and noted: “Somebody who is going to go do a mass shooting or something like that may not go and get a permit.” But Hochul said that was irrelevant to the issue of people carrying concealed handguns for protection.

The exchange must have caught Hochul off guard, since reporters don’t normally challenge support for gun control. But if Hochul wants to claim that the Supreme Court’s decision to strike down New York’s restrictive concealed handgun law “could place millions of New Yorkers in harm’s way,” she has to explain how exactly permits make people a danger to others. After all, permit holders must pass a criminal background check, obtain the required training, and be at least 21 years old.

Democrats and gun control proponents are now predicting disaster in New York and the six other heavily Democratic states with restrictive “may-issue” concealed

handgun laws. These states required applicants to demonstrate “proper cause” – a good reason that would convince a government bureaucrat of one’s need for a permit.

But those predicting catastrophe don’t have history on their side. Forty-three states don’t require a good reason for people to carry a gun for protection. And yet, concealed handgun permit holders have proven extremely law-abiding. No right-to-carry state has ever even held a legislative hearing to consider moving back to a “proper cause” requirement.

Since 1976, 18 states have eliminated “proper cause” requirements in favor of “right-to-carry” policies. In state after state, gun control proponents kept predicting the same disaster. And gun control proponents continually lost credibility.

But that didn’t stop Justice Stephen Breyer from speculating: “People of good moral character who start drinking a lot and who may be there for a football game or – or some kind of soccer game – can get pretty angry at each other. And if they each have a concealed weapon, who knows?”

Concealed carry laws have been in place for decades, and there are now 21.5 million permit holders nationwide. If there were any merit to Breyer’s concerns, his imagined scenario ought to have played out at least once. But there isn’t a single recorded incident like it.

In Florida and Texas, permit holders are convicted of firearms-related violations at one-twelfth the rate of police officers. The average revocation rate is one-tenth of 1% in the 19 states with comprehensive data. Typically, permit revocations occur because someone moved, died, or forgot to bring a permit while carrying.

California and New York don’t provide data on revocation rates, but we do have some other information on how arbitrarily permits are issued. In 2013, Los Angeles County named its 341 permit holders out of a population of almost eight million adults. 

In L.A., only the political elite got permits: judges, reserve deputy sheriffs, and a small group of very wealthy, well-connected individuals who gave campaign donations to the county sheriff. Few recipients were minorities or women. While Hispanics made up over half of Los Angeles County residents, they only received about 6.5% of the county’s permits. Women got about 7%, and blacks 5%. In right-to-carry states, women have 29% of the permits and blacks have 12%.

In the rest of the U.S., 10% of adults have permits. People in most states don’t think twice about being in the presence of armed citizens in restaurants, theaters, and stores. New Yorkers must be terrified to visit Pennsylvania, where 14.4% of adults have permits. 

When officials get to decide who gets a permit, explicit death threats often aren’t even enough to qualify. Residence in a high-crime neighborhood is irrelevant.

Fifty-two peer-reviewed, empirical studies have been published on right-to-carry laws. Of these, 25 studies found that allowing people to carry reduces violent crime, and 15 found no significant effect. A minority, 12, observed increases in violent crime after concealed carry was adopted. Unfortunately, these 12 studies suffer, to varying degrees, from systematic error. They overwhelmingly focus on the last 20 years and compare states that recently passed concealed carry laws with more lenient states that had sustained a much larger growth in permits over the past two decades. The finding that crime rose relatively in such states is actually consistent with permit holders reducing crime.

Hochul says her job is to establish sensible gun safety laws, but facts do matter. The current system is arbitrary and favors the privileged. With California and New York unable to protect their citizens, people will soon learn that Hochul’s fears of letting law-abiding citizens defend themselves are unjustified.

John R. Lott, Jr., “Gov. Hochul Short on Answers, Thin on Data,” July 4, 2022.

[Grouse]

Rob Maciol is with Curtis Morgan and 7 others

 at Government Offices State Office Building.

July 13, 2022

At a news conference Wednesday, state Sen. Joseph Griffo, R-I-C-Rome, state Assembly members Marianne Buttenschon, D-Marcy, Brian Miller, R-I-C-New Hartford, Robert Smullen, R-C-I-SAM-Meco, and John Salka, R-C-I-Ref-Brookfield, and Oneida County Executive Anthony Picente Jr. joined with Madison County Sheriff Todd and I Hood to express concerns with gun-related legislation recently signed into law.

The legislation significantly alters training procedures, licensing requirements and the background check process while also limiting where an individual may carry concealed. It was created by the governor and the leaders of the Senate and Assembly and was passed with the overwhelming support of the legislative majorities.

While the legislators and law enforcement officials agreed that it is important to take proactive measures to address gun violence and related issues, they said that the legislation rushed through during the recent Extraordinary Session fails to address violence, especially illegally possessed guns, burdens local governments and businesses, creates confusion and infringes upon the rights of law-abiding gun owners.

Sen. Griffo said, “We all want to end gun violence and we agree that there is a real need to get illegal guns off the street. However, the legislation passed by the legislative majorities in a nontransparent fashion and signed into law by the governor, which we and the public were given little time to scrutinize, is confusing and crafted without input from important stakeholders such as law enforcement. This legislation will further burden local governments, hurt small business owners and adversely affect the men and women throughout New York, especially those in upstate communities, who safely and responsibly utilize firearms.”

Assemblyman Salka said, “The majority in the State Legislature has proven once again they care little for the opinion of those effected by their onerous legislation. Their latest law, restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens to protect themselves, was done without any input from law enforcement, district attorneys or good government groups. This is another example of Governor Hochul pandering to the extreme left to get elected and proves she has no regard for the ruling of the highest court in the land. Disgraceful.”

Assemblyman Miller said, “Gov. Hochul’s rushed gun restriction laws have put an excessive burden on law-abiding citizens and will do little to curb the violence we as a society are truly concerned about, especially violence carried out byillegal firearms. There was no time afforded by the governor to have any public input from individuals, law enforcement, prosecutors or interested parties on either side of the conversation. My concerns about the hastily-crafted regulations remain, and Gov. Hochul is proving to be similar to her predecessor, Gov. Cuomo, when he misstepped with enacting the SAFE Act.”

Assemblyman Smullen said, “These new firearm restrictions are the SAFE Act 2.0. Downstate politicians have egregiously usurped our constitutional right to bear arms and protect ourselves, which was just reinforced by the highest court in the land. The nation’s top court was clear, yet the governor and radicals in Albany are sending the message that they don’t believe in the U.S. Supreme Court. This law will be swiftly overturned.”

Assemblywoman Buttenschon said, “Intelligent, effective policy requires the participation of all affected stakeholders. I voted against the recent gun legislation during the extraordinary session because it ignores every affected stakeholder in the 119th Assembly District. It’s expensive, unconstitutional and unenforceable. “

Oneida County Executive Picente said, “In the blind rush to be ‘first’ in the nation, we have another gun law that turns law-abiding citizens into criminals. Passed with no consultation with law enforcement or sportsmen, this is just another example of how out of touch Albany is with real New Yorkers.”

Oneida County Sheriff Maciol said, “Unfortunately, New York State has once again quickly passed rushed through legislation without consulting any of the experts with expectation that these new laws will make our state safer, when in fact, they will do just the opposite. Pistol permit holders in New York are some the most upstanding, genuine, law abiding citizens and these laws will only affect them and not the criminals. I wholeheartedly believe that guns must only be in the hands of stable, law abiding citizens, but this is not the way to do it.”

Madison County Sheriff Hood said, “This ill-conceived legislation strips away the rights of law-abiding citizens and makes our communities less safe. These new criminal justice laws were proposed and passed with no transparency and lacked important input from law enforcement agencies and other stakeholders. I’m not surprised. Over the last several years, we’ve seen flawed policies coming out of Albany like so-called bail reform that handcuff law enforcement and give more rights to criminals. I thank those legislators who stood against this nonsense and for protecting our communities.”

[GreeneHunter]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Rob Maciol is with Curtis Morgan and 7 others

 at Government Offices State Office Building.

July 13, 2022

 

Shortened it up for ya !

[Grouse]

Just now, GreeneHunter said:

Shortened it up for ya !

You need to work on your attention span.

[BizCT]

How long do you think that will be the case?  Where will you move when it happens in CT?

What will happen? I wouldn’t move my life Over gun Laws. Until people are getting their guns taken away or something, I’m not really concerned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Grouse]

The plan isn't to take guns away from anyone.  The plan is to make the ones you have illegal for you to possess so you will voluntarily give them away, because the penalty for not doing is years in prison.  I think that is something that concerns us all right now.

[Trad bow]

I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion of this here as it’s going to effect anyone with a gun . Gun owners should be up in arms trying to figure out how to fight this.  We shouldn’t just except it and become complacent or they will continue chipping away at our freedoms .

[Nomad]

7 hours ago, Trad bow said:

I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion of this here as it’s going to effect anyone with a gun . Gun owners should be up in arms trying to figure out how to fight this.  We shouldn’t just except it and become complacent or they will continue chipping away at our freedoms .

Most have no clue ,sadly . They think their “hunting guns “ are ok lol . One thing about being older ,is many widows just give away their husbands guns ,off the books . But yes I’ve given money and joined more groups to fight this . But frankly my back is getting tried from carrying all the other gun owners who do nothing .

[DirtTime]

I did not join, but I did send a donation to GOA to help fight this. Anyone who plans on not complying isn't going to show up at any protest to bring unwanted attention to themselves, so I'm not seeing anything like that going on. What else do we do?

I don't have a ton of money to donate to this, because all the crap is making me drop my savings on buying things now before it gets really out of hand. Just to make a rifle compliant, I sold stuff and used money for a trip I had planned.

 

We have three choices:

Not comply and face serious charges.

Move to a free state.

Sit in the middle and eat the crap sandwich, hoping the SCOTUS reverses all of this.

 

The whole any park issue and that phrasing which includes the ADK's is a huge problem. I honestly doubt they even realize the Adirondacks is considered a 'park', because they are clueless about the outdoors and probably meany city and town parks, but with no distinction, we have what we have.

 

I ain't pretty, but I'm too old to go to prison and become part of Big Pappa's harem.

 

I'm buying ammo when I can, but it's getting scarce again. Haven't been to the indoor range in a few weeks because I don't want to waste what ammo I do have.

 

They are just flat out being childish, and a lot more people are seeing it now. The fact is we need a change here in our government because it's plain to see just how far the left is willing to go on these matters. We need a Republican governor and as much as most of us will be voting our part, I don't see it happening. This is NY, and some might not like this, but it's a fact that the whole state is dictated quite literally by downstate. If you love your guns and want to lower taxes, vote right.

[sbuff]

So do we register by 8/31? Then hope this all changes , I can't find a solid piece on line  that states its for all ccw holders or new going forward.  Myself having a ccw in Albany co am very confused .  It took me 25 years of trying  to get my ccw, that when I got it I felt honored. 

[dbHunterNY]

20 hours ago, sbuff said:

So do we register by 8/31? Then hope this all changes , I can't find a solid piece on line  that states its for all ccw holders or new going forward.  Myself having a ccw in Albany co am very confused .  It took me 25 years of trying  to get my ccw, that when I got it I felt honored. 

you have to talk to your county clerk pistol permit office. it's changing by the day. I talked to mine across the river last week in person and again this morning. stuff i'm reading online and from gun shops is all over the place, some being speculation and some just plain inaccurate. not that they necessarily fed you BS, so much as yesterday's word trickling down from NYSP is changing.

[dbHunterNY]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:38 PM, Nomad said:

Our county clerk did a radio interview in which she said ,Monroe county has between 60000 and 70000 concealed carriers and adds 2000 per year .

The judges said they don’t know how they can interview 2000 every year. There’s absolutely no way they can interview / and process the existing 60-70k carriers that have to renew over the up coming three years and go through the process as if they’re new application’s.

Not to,mention how these numbers can all take a 16 hour class with live fire , which doesn’t yet even exist.

Ive had multiple training classes, Hunter ed, Florida’s and Utah’s training class of four hours each , and others I I took on my own . I also took the training to teach Hunter ed of which firearm safety and handling was a big part .

Mrs Nomad and I just renewed our permits, so we’re good for three years ,and by then hopefully it’s all struck down . I also co registered my guns on three other permits in different parts of the state , in case I lose my NY permit .

Don’t forget you’ll need a fire proof gun safe in your vehicles ,for your long guns If you leave them unattended,like buying food on the way to camp , or running to town for lunch and not having a camp or house to store them in . Otherwise you face a felony haha . “But  but but I just own a couple hunting guns “ ya they don’t like you either .

updates and conversation again this morning the pistol clerk blatantly said the logistics of just processing all the permits let alone the course evaluations are pretty much not possible. late yesterday into this early this morning they did way over 100. just to hold a class and live fire of a certain capacity they'd need a dozen certified instructors. live fire is practically 1 on 1 to ensure safe handling and no incidents happen should someone who isn't proficient/prepared show up. everyone better be practicing to at least 25 yards and no POI with fixed sights or sight in their pistols. you might only get one chance to keep permit and what's on it.

...other issue is some counties won't co-register any pistol. they state reasons like divorce or domestic disputes with multiple permits having the same serial number listed gets complicated.

Edited July 19, 2022 by dbHunterNY

[DirtTime]

Seeing these new laws affect hunters using rifles and shotguns as well, I'll add this here.

 

I have permission to hunt the bordering private land we hunt in the ADK's. I've only hunted that land a few times, but always call the owner each Summer, who resides in a different part of the state. I made that annual call last night. He will not allow hunting the property this year because he won't be able to make the trek to put up the posted signs and the signs stating firearms are allowed. So even thought I don't hunt it often, I just lost 80 acres of land to hunt on.

 

I have not heard back yet from the place we rent the cabin each fall if they are going to put up signs stating they allow firearms on the premises.

 

I have also not gotten an email back from DEC with any decisive answers abut any of these new laws and how they are going to affect hunting the ADK's.

I am pretty glad I went ahead and picked up the ML last year, at least I can use that and not run afoul of these over the top stupid laws.

This is a fucking nightmare. Sorry about the language, but that's what this is. There's no way this will be overturned in time for this year's hunting seasons. Or maybe not even next year's seasons.

[sbuff]

I too placed a call to Albany co clerk and no decisive answers were given.  I called two days later to Albany County sherif and they said they are as confused as I am 

Rob keep me posted if you hear anything .

Edited July 20, 2022 by sbuff

[Nomad]

20 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

up. everyone better be practicing to at least 25 yards and no POI with fixed sights or sight in their pistols. you might only get one chance to keep permit and what's on it.

I have a six inch Dan Wesson .22 with the sweetest trigger I’ve ever used . Even DA is supper light and smooth , it’s on both the Mrs and my permits ,and it will soon be on our daughters as well . That will be our “ training gun “ if need be down the road .

[DirtTime]

51 minutes ago, sbuff said:

I too placed a call to Albany co clerk and no decisive answers were given.  I called two days later to Albany County sherif and they said they are as confused as I am 

Rob keep me posted if you hear anything .

Will do.

 

I just got an email back from the owner of the place we rent the cabin. He had no clue about any of this. I replied with a link to this mess and simply said I just needed clarification so no one risks felony charges for having a gun where we can't have a gun.