Just how smart are these critters?

[Doc]

You know, it wasn't that long ago that I was on stand, being as quiet as possible, paying attention to wind direction, all camoed up and trying to be motionless, only to get picked off at 50 yards or more when I tried to lift my bow into position or even draw the string back. While still-hunting, the slightest mis-step or shift in wind direction would send the deer charging away. They definitely were displaying some of the wiliest behavior, instincts and defensiveness of anything in the woods.

Ok, so here we are in March. The law says I cannot shoot these guys and magically they seem to have read those laws and looked at that calendar and decided that they really don't have to worry about me now. It all was made so blatently clear when we arrived home late yesterday afternoon. When I pulled into my parking spot, there was a deer standing a short distance up the bank behind the house ...... just staring at the car. That was about 20 yards away. I expected when the car doors opened he would take off like a crazy-thing and head up the hill. Instead my wife opened her door and got out, and said something like "Hi-there", and he immediated came off the hill like some tame pet and walked towards us and down under the bird feeder. Now it was about 15 yards away. So I got out slammed the door and walked into the house. I got upstairs and looked out the window and sure enough, there he was working over the seeds that the birds had dumped out of the feeder....two feet from the house.

In just a few months they had learned that I was no longer a threat. So just how smart are these critters? And who is supplying them with the calendars and a copy of the game laws?

[Gthphtm]

By me they hit the bird feeder early in the morning or later in the evening,they know when I let the dogs out to do there thing.If the are out grazing near the house during the day and I let one of the dogs out,they just stand there and look at each other,they must know the dog will not come too close because the dog is on a rope that cannot reach them.

[josephmrtn]

They are dang smart thats for sure!!!!

[G-Man]

Your at your house they see you go in and out all the time. Like a farmer going to the barn. But do 1 thing different and poof gone.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Had a bunch in the clover, about 75 yd. from the fortress last night. Some look like their ready to pop.

Edited March 10, 2013 by landtracdeerhunter

[greensider]

i split fire wood behind my home and they dont pay me any mind 20 yards away not yearlings bucks with 21 inch mainbeams i have wached them shed thier antlers while i was stacking wood

[ants]

I know it sounds weird but I really think that they can pick up on nervous vibes or something. Kind of like when your dog knows you're upset or pissed off. A week or so ago I went to my brother in law's house to return some tools. He lives in the sticks. I pull in the drive way, in front of his work shed, and there is a doe standing on the side of the shed eating something that she pawed up from under the snow. I slam my door, open the shed, load the tools into the shed, slam the shed door and slam the tail gate of my truck closed. The whole time she just kept eating. She was maybe 15 yards away the whole time.

[G-Man]

Deer get spooky before season as the woods are assulted by atv's, human scent,hammering, wood smoke as 90% of the hunters show up 2 weeks before the season. If you ride your atv all the time they ignore it but when they here it and all the other intrusion they head for the hills. Its why the experts get dropped off by atv or tractor that is on a routine drive by.. deer ignore it and the hunter is in place.. you dont see them riding their atv 2 miles back in the woods to hunt but are dropped off on edges of trail/fields

[phade]

Not rocket science...food is overriding security in this situation.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I was out doing some yard work yesterday and there was a big doe and her two yearlings bedded in the brush on my back property line. I was picking crap up in the bushes thats apparently been there for decades, and they just watched me until I was 20 feet away, then they got up and took off. I could have spit on them. They are alot less wary around my house at this point.

Of course, this weekend, we were out shed hunting the farm, and as soon as a group of deer spotted us, from halfway across a big hay field, they turned and bolted the other way. I think it has alot to do with where you are, and if its normal for the deer to spot you in certain areas.

[Woodjr55]

I was out coyote hunting at dusk last week while walking in had a group of 5 or so does about 75 yards away I look at them threw the scope at first to see what they were. I was able to set my bi pod up on my gun set that down take my backpack off grab my binoculars glassed then for another 3-5 minutes then set my caller up and get in my spot. They didn't run off till I turned the caller on.

[Doc]

Whenever the discussion of deer intelligence comes up, I am reminded of back when I was a new hunter, hunting on my uncle's place. I had an elevated position that looked down on a swamp. I saw a big doe that was not a legal shooter at the time. She was standing up looking intently at an approaching hunter. She laid down in the cat-tails, and let this guy pass within 15 or 20 feet of her. Once he was out of sight, she slowly walked off in the other direction. I believe that this tactic is used a lot more than we know, and may well explain why after opening day, all the deer seem to disappear. Pretty darned smart.

[Gthphtm]

Yes deer in a swamp,I had one opening day of rifle season many years ago. A 10 pointer, wide rack, tall tines and a big body. Under estimated the distance, thought it was 100 yds., later paced it off more like 200 yds. After the first shot it lied down, looked around and crawled on it's belly out of the swamp, all I could see was his rack going further away to the other end of the swamp, then jump up and run into a bunch of pines at the other end.Thea deer was seen and shot at by 4 other people that we know of that year and the following year and all 4 never even hit him.

[growalot]

I grabbed the camera and went for my daily hike...this one let me walk with in ft and past before standing up...then let me get the camera up and ready for a shot and allowed me to move around for another before just trotting off a dozen yards to watch me ...they just get use to me being out and about...they are use to my scent....Just one reason I like the fact that they are now staying on the place during the winter as well....I think they realize my being around equals food....the noise with the chain saw...the tractor all ends up with more food for them....

[WNYBuckHunter]

Whenever the discussion of deer intelligence comes up, I am reminded of back when I was a new hunter, hunting on my uncle's place. I had an elevated position that looked down on a swamp. I saw a big doe that was not a legal shooter at the time. She was standing up looking intently at an approaching hunter. She laid down in the cat-tails, and let this guy pass within 15 or 20 feet of her. Once he was out of sight, she slowly walked off in the other direction. I believe that this tactic is used a lot more than we know, and may well explain why after opening day, all the deer seem to disappear. Pretty darned smart.

They do that sometimes when they are approached by anything they perceive as danger. Other times they run. Its instinct, not intellect.

[Doc]

They do that sometimes when they are approached by anything they perceive as danger. Other times they run. Its instinct, not intellect.

I don't care what you call it, it still comes out pretty darn smart....lol. Running away would be more of an instinctual reaction. To me, it looked like a learned and reasoned out act. She saw the danger and figured out that letting the hunter pass was a way to safety. It wasn't like she was frozen in fear. She was really quite deliberate in the way she laid down inside of adequate cover. She had it figured out that if she laid down and sat tight, the danger would pass. As it turned out, it was a pretty darn smart way to escape the hunter.

I'll tell you something that I learned about other critters that are very similar to deer. We used to have a couple of goats. They were fenced into a pasture that had a door-like gate for an entrance. It wasn't too long before I found the goats wandering around the yard. I put them back, and before I got up to the house, the gate was open and they were heading for one of our prized shrubs. So, I locked them back up and watched how they were getting out. The next thing I knew, one of the goats reared up on his hind legs and planted her front legs against the gate while she picked at the hook until she got it unlatched. That goofey goat had watched me everytime I went in and out and realized that the hook on the gate was the thing she had to work to get it open. She not only figured that out, but realized exactly what motion the hook had to go through to come loose from the fence staple that the hook worked with.

There was no instinct involved there. That was 100% learned behavior. I'll bet there's probably not a lot of difference in intelligence between a goat and a deer. They both are capable of learning what works.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I don't care what you call it, it still comes out pretty darn smart....lol. Running away would be more of an instinctual reaction. To me, it looked like a learned and reasoned out act. She saw the danger and figured out that letting the hunter pass was a way to safety. It wasn't like she was frozen in fear. She was really quite deliberate in the way she laid down inside of adequate cover. She had it figured out that if she laid down and sat tight, the danger would pass. As it turned out, it was a pretty darn smart way to escape the hunter.

I'll tell you something that I learned about other critters that are very similar to deer. We used to have a couple of goats. They were fenced into a pasture that had a door-like gate for an entrance. It wasn't too long before I found the goats wandering around the yard. I put them back, and before I got up to the house, the gate was open and they were heading for one of our prized shrubs. So, I locked them back up and watched how they were getting out. The next thing I knew, one of the goats reared up on his hind legs and planted her front legs against the gate while she picked at the hook until she got it unlatched. That goofey goat had watched me everytime I went in and out and realized that the hook on the gate was the thing she had to work to get it open. She not only figured that out, but realized exactly what motion the hook had to go through to come loose from the fence staple that the hook worked with.

There was no instinct involved there. That was 100% learned behavior. I'll bet there's probably not a lot of difference in intelligence between a goat and a deer. They both are capable of learning what works.

If it were a learned behavior to lay down and remain motionless, then fawns wouldnt be doing it as soon as they were born. Im not saying animals cant learn things, they can certainly be conditioned to take alot of actions.

[phade]

Good lord, reasoning?

They are deer. Take the deer off the pedestal. Some people just have to project human abilities onto animals, I don't get why that is so pervasive.

Edited March 12, 2013 by phade

[growalot]

It took this guy one time to figure out if he hooked his horns under the gate bar and lifted...he could remove the entire gate...imagine my surprise when the girls and kids were all out and he was walking around in the paddock carrying that huge gate on his head...we had to wire the gate to the posts until installing stops....he did that 5 times in one day....goats are miserable things to contain...always greener on the other side...lol

Kind of no different than the deer learning that sleeping next to the two 130# shepherds in the kennel is the safest thing when the yotes and other neighbor dogs are roaming....That is a learned behavior

Edited March 12, 2013 by growalot

[phade]

It took this guy one time to figure out if he hooked his horns under the gate bar and lifted...he could remove the entire gate...imagine my surprise when the girls and kids were all out and he was walking around in the paddock carrying that huge gate on his head...we had to wire the gate to the posts until installing stops....he did that 5 times in one day....goats are miserable things to contain...always greener on the other side...lol

Kind of no different than the deer learning that sleeping next to the two 130# shepherds in the kennel is the safest thing when the yotes and other neighbor dogs are roaming....That is a learned behavior

Grow - you are looking at it one way, but I think there are rational things to consider.

Bold 1: You say it is a learned behavior, yet you say goats are miserable to contain. Why? Innate behavior, that's why.

Bold 2: You assume they learn that it is safer? How are they learning? Could it not be that goats are normally social animals, animals that seek additional warmth, protection, etc. It's just as innate. You are just assuming that this is reason why the goat is doing what it is doing. I think it is just a goat being a goat.

[growalot]

I was speaking to the deer learning to be near the dogs kennel at night is safe....The dogs bark at every single intrusion...they are with plain sight of the bedroom window which is never closed...The deer have learned these barking dogs don't ever come out at them...the nights that the deer are bedded by the kennel...are nights I clearly hear the yotes and or neighbor dogs running the woods yelping or barking....neither come up near where they hear the boys barking....they are rather nasty sounding...

So you tell me ....what would make deer bed within yards of two barking dogs while others are nearby doing the same? What is instinctual about that? This is something I've mentioned more than once here....

Edited March 12, 2013 by growalot

[Doc]

Grow - you are looking at it one way, but I think there are rational things to consider.

Bold 1: You say it is a learned behavior, yet you say goats are miserable to contain. Why? Innate behavior, that's why.

Bold 2: You assume they learn that it is safer? How are they learning? Could it not be that goats are normally social animals, animals that seek additional warmth, protection, etc. It's just as innate. You are just assuming that this is reason why the goat is doing what it is doing. I think it is just a goat being a goat.

Goats understand that the best stuff to eat is outside that fence. It's either that or they just appreciate a good challenge ..... lol. Whatever their reason for wanting to get out, if they can stand there and watch what it takes to unlock and get out of a gate, I find it hard that somebody can't understand that that is "learned" behavior. There is no "instinct" in that. I don't know whether that is assigning human traits to animals or not. I think it is simply understanding that animals can be taught things and have the ability to learn. Personally I only know what I have seen. And to think that a deer does not have the same abilities as a goat to learn things may not be the most correct thinking either.

[nyantler]

They do that sometimes when they are approached by anything they perceive as danger. Other times they run. Its instinct, not intellect.

Absolutely right.. it is instinct, not intellect. As deer get older they gather more experience... some encounter different experiences and respond much differently based on those experiences... a deer that has never been hunted will tolerate a lot more than one that has.. a deer that has picked off a hunter in his treestand will be more apt to look upwards in the future than one that hasn't... there is no thought process... just response based on past experience with a bit of inate instinct thrown in for good measure.

[Doc]

Learned experiences and responses are not instinctive.

[phade]

I was speaking to the deer learning to be near the dogs kennel at night is safe....The dogs bark at every single intrusion...they are with plain sight of the bedroom window which is never closed...The deer have learned these barking dogs don't ever come out at them...the nights that the deer are bedded by the kennel...are nights I clearly hear the yotes and or neighbor dogs running the woods yelping or barking....neither come up near where they hear the boys barking....they are rather nasty sounding...

So you tell me ....what would make deer bed within yards of two barking dogs while others are nearby doing the same? What is instinctual about that? This is something I've mentioned more than once here....

I think you are over-thinking it Grow. It's food and security. They either have security they need, and/or the food they need. Could be food is overriding their fear/security need at the time they stick around there. It's really not rocket science, deer are not humans and lack the ability to logically make decisions.