Crossbow Update A283

[Five Seasons]

Fo those of you with your panties in a bunch over it being "easier" for anyone that CHOSE to pick up a crossbow and hunt with it and soooo worried that it will mean the collapse of all out bowhunting tradition....what other things are you using that those that came before you didn't have (Not you Doc, We know you were there when the first bow was strung...Just kidding). How about those tree stands? harnesses? plastic vanes? replaceable balde broad heads? Carbon or aluminum arrows? drop away rests? Camo clothing? Gortex boots? So how far is too far when it comes to make hunting "easier" ? Obviously just as far as you have taken advantage of and deemed the correct amount. Huh.

 

as far as gear is considered, making it easier to kill a deer is sort of an interesting topic. My muck boots dont bring in deer, but they do allow me to comfortably cross a stream, remain dry and get to my stand. My ladder sticks don't make it easier to kill a deer, but allow me to safely climb a tree (something we've been doing a long time). New cammo is generally not any better than the old stuff. We just believe the manufacturers who say it is. Nothing stops us from the old tried and true organic soaps, mud and leafs to be just as effective at killing as hunters of 30 years ago.

 

But with technology we have made it more efficient. vanes and broadhead... idk i'm torn on those. They do improve your odds, but in addition do they also help save some wounded deer? Would crossbows save wounded deer, or would they bring more "shoot at the bush that is moving" hunters? I dont know. But safety harness? I can't believe you'd lump something into the discussion that can save lives. All in all, we all have buddies or know a guy who buys the latest and greatest everything. Most of these guys that I know can't hunt their way out of a paper bag. Their wallets are lighter than mine and they're hands are probably a little warmer... that is until i stick mine in my dead deers belly.

[growalot]

This entire thing has absolutely nothing to do with x-bows being listed as a "legal implement"

 

It has everything to do with just one thing and that is deer hunting period and how many ppl that others care to see or not see during deer seasons  and the i9mpact of more bodies out in the fall woods will have on deer movement and behavior...

 

If you ask and get honest answers a majority  of..NOT ALL... ppl will say they went into bow season to get away from the craziness of gun season and to be safer....They stay and expand their bow hunting for a number of reasons after that...

 

In all these endless pages of forum posts how many have said.... I want to have x-cross bow for turkey ...predator...small game...please show me those many posts and I'd say OK the issue isn't deer season but having another hunting implement...there's a challenge for ya...PS...my posts don't count in that tally..

 

Take deer season out of the equation and I'd bet even money...... they'd be allowed in NYS by now

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have to be honest Grow. I have no intention of ever hunting small game with a compound or a crossbow. I am not throwing those expensive little beauties at small game. I don't mind ruining an arrow on a pass through of a deer but at abouot $25 an arrow I think I will stick to .22lr and shotgun for the small game. (assuming I can find the ammo) Now if it extended my hunting time by using one, I may have to consider it.

[jjb4900]

This entire thing has absolutely nothing to do with x-bows being listed as a "legal implement"

 

It has everything to do with just one thing and that is deer hunting period and how many ppl that others care to see or not see during deer seasons  and the i9mpact of more bodies out in the fall woods will have on deer movement and behavior...

 

If you ask and get honest answers a majority  of..NOT ALL... ppl will say they went into bow season to get away from the craziness of gun season and to be safer....They stay and expand their bow hunting for a number of reasons after that...

 

In all these endless pages of forum posts how many have said.... I want to have x-cross bow for turkey ...predator...small game...please show me those many posts and I'd say OK the issue isn't deer season but having another hunting implement...there's a challenge for ya...PS...my posts don't count in that tally..

 

Take deer season out of the equation and I'd bet even money...... they'd be allowed in NYS by now

I'll agree with you.........I didn't take up or stick with bowhunting because it's more challenging, I enjoy the quietness and solitude of it, the less people I see out there, the more I enjoy myself..........the same reason I've gotten more involved in the late muzzleloader season.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

I invite any of you anti-crossbow people to pick up a crossbow and come and try and out shoot me with my compund. Crossbows are big, loud and clumsy with the advantages they have they also have disadvantages. Unless your using a homemade long bow with wooden arrows and stone tips your argument holds little water. I don't use a scope on my shotgun so should I cry that I want scopes illegal during shotgun season?

[jjb4900]

since archery season was given the Oct. the 1st opener, why not give crossbow the week before the opener of regular season? I'm all for everyone having a chance to use their weapon of choice in some capacity.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'll agree with you.........I didn't take up or stick with bowhunting because it's more challenging, I enjoy the quietness and solitude of it, the less people I see out there, the more I enjoy myself..........the same reason I've gotten more involved in the late muzzleloader season.

Again, if you think gun season style drives, etc are going to be effective with a crossbow, you are either delusional or just have no clue about it.

If you think less hunters participating is good for the sport, I say you have no idea what you are talking about.

As far as giving them one week? Really? Just more complications. Going on that logic, compounds should only get a week as well. The rest of bow season should be left to True Archery.

[WNYBuckHunter]

as far as gear is considered, making it easier to kill a deer is sort of an interesting topic. My muck boots dont bring in deer, but they do allow me to comfortably cross a stream, remain dry and get to my stand. My ladder sticks don't make it easier to kill a deer, but allow me to safely climb a tree (something we've been doing a long time). New cammo is generally not any better than the old stuff. We just believe the manufacturers who say it is. Nothing stops us from the old tried and true organic soaps, mud and leafs to be just as effective at killing as hunters of 30 years ago.

But with technology we have made it more efficient. vanes and broadhead... idk i'm torn on those. They do improve your odds, but in addition do they also help save some wounded deer? Would crossbows save wounded deer, or would they bring more "shoot at the bush that is moving" hunters? I dont know. But safety harness? I can't believe you'd lump something into the discussion that can save lives. All in all, we all have buddies or know a guy who buys the latest and greatest everything. Most of these guys that I know can't hunt their way out of a paper bag. Their wallets are lighter than mine and they're hands are probably a little warmer... that is until i stick mine in my dead deers belly.

Tell ya what belo, I challenge you to leave all of your equipment, scent control, tree stands, and your compound at home this year. Pick up a longbow, and get out there on the ground with old school green checkered shirt and jeans with leather boots, and lets see how you do.

You really sit there and say that as bow hunters, we are no more effective today than 30 years ago? Theres no way you can say that with a straight face. Not to anyone that knows anything about bow hunting, or the history of it.

[jjb4900]

Again, if you think gun season style drives, etc are going to be effective with a crossbow, you are either delusional or just have no clue about it.

If you think less hunters participating is good for the sport, I say you have no idea what you are talking about.

As far as giving them one week? Really? Just more complications. Going on that logic, compounds should only get a week as well. The rest of bow season should be left to True Archery.

of course I know what I'm talking about, it's MY OPINION.......I don't recall stating any fact anywhere in my post......and yes I would have no problem giving traditional archery a shot before all the rest, much like I feel traditional muzzleloaders are a different animal than the inlines that are now considered muzzleloaders.......and if someone's participation in the sport hinges on whether or not they can use a certain weapon, then yes, I have no idea what I'm talking about............like I said before, why not just have a "deer season" and tell everyone you're allowed to get your deer anyway  you want?

Edited July 8, 2013 by jjb4900

[jjb4900]

better yet, take the two earlier weeks that were given to archery and designate them primitive bow only and give the old season dates to modern bows...I'll be more than happy to get a recurve for those two earlier weeks and pick up my compound afterwards and you can use your crossbow if you so choose.

[SteveB]

  compounds should only get a week as well. The rest of bow season should be left to True Archery.

I'm in

[WNYBuckHunter]

better yet, take the two earlier weeks that were given to archery and designate them primitive bow only and give the old season dates to modern bows...I'll be more than happy to get a recurve for those two earlier weeks and pick up my compound afterwards and you can use your crossbow if you so choose.

You do realize Im a bowhunter, right?

[WNYBuckHunter]

of course I know what I'm talking about, it's MY OPINION.......I don't recall stating any fact anywhere in my post......and yes I would have no problem giving traditional archery a shot before all the rest, much like I feel traditional muzzleloaders are a different animal than the inlines that are now considered muzzleloaders.......and if someone's participation in the sport hinges on whether or not they can use a certain weapon, then yes, I have no idea what I'm talking about............like I said before, why not just have a "deer season" and tell everyone you're allowed to get your deer anyway you want?

Sorry, but believing that deer drives and the rest of the gun season tactics just wont work with crossbows, you need to use the same exact methods of hunting with a vertical bow. Its not an opinion, its how it is. Dont believe it? Ask guys that use them in other states.

If you care about the future of our sport, then youll realize it all depends on recruitment and continued participation. What has been going on simply hasnt worked. There is no one single solution to the problem, it will take many smaller solutions to start to turn things around.

IMO breaking things up further, and making the laws more complicated is not a good idea.

[SteveB]

2 seasons only.

All bows in bow.

All guns in gun.

Just that simple.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I dont know that i would go that far. I would actually like to see gun season shortened by a week, and late muzzle loader lengthened by that week. I do realize that inlines are superior to flintlocks, etc, but they still lack many advantages to rifles, shotguns, etc.

[Doc]

You gonna drop into a prone position in a treestand, or shoot through brush like that? Laying there in the open within bow range typically doesnt fly. But hey, knock yourself out trying lol.

 

Right after you are done, scoop up the quad rail stabilizer for your compound, pop on your bipod or other bow stabilization tool and whack that deer with no movement of the pin in your magnified scope with your lazer range finder hanging off of the riser to tell you exactly what pin to use.

 

LOL, more extremes.

I can show you all kinds of acreage of open hardwoods where I could set up prone with a crossbow or rifle and have clear shooting in any direction, completely unobstructed. and you know it. Also, I can show you some of my shotgun ground blinds that have rests in any direction that can simulate benchrest conditions. And just like with a shotgun, I could easily benchrest my crossbow on any of those horizontal log surfaces. So, if you lack the imagination to hunt from the ground in exactly the manner that I described, then perhaps you really are at a disadvantage with your crossbow. And exactly when did you get the idea that the only way to deer hunt is from a tree stand? Oh and by the way, wasn't it you who was talking about how the crossbow would allow people to make more ethical killing shots without the need for all that tedious practice? Which way is it?

[Doc]

Fo those of you with your panties in a bunch over it being "easier" for anyone that CHOSE to pick up a crossbow and hunt with it and soooo worried that it will mean the collapse of all out bowhunting tradition....what other things are you using that those that came before you didn't have (Not you Doc, We know you were there when the first bow was strung...Just kidding). How about those tree stands? harnesses? plastic vanes? replaceable balde broad heads? Carbon or aluminum arrows? drop away rests? Camo clothing? Gortex boots? So how far is too far when it comes to make hunting "easier" ? Obviously just as far as you have taken advantage of and deemed the correct amount. Huh.

So perhaps bow season has come to mean only "the early part of hunting season" and the equipment restrictions are bogus. Maybe the concepts of challenge and discipline simply should not be a part of what we call bowhunting anymore.

 

Yes you're right, we have come a long way in terms of what we allow into bowhunting, but everything still requires the same basic principles and disciplines of traditional archery. All the rules of shooting form and forced consistency still apply. All those things that justified creating a special season for a very demanding way of hunting so many decades ago still apply. But maybe you feel it is time to break out of those kind of restrictions. Perhaps bowhunting as we have always viewed it has run its course and it is time to let technology take over the rest of it.  The evolution never stops as you pointed out and each technological incursion serves as the precedent for the next. Perhaps it is now time to throw out even the operating principles and challenges and skills of bow shooting. Hey what the heck, the sport is in the hands of the next generation to do with as they see fit. It will morph into whatever the current participants want.

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

I can show you all kinds of acreage of open hardwoods where I could set up prone with a crossbow or rifle and have clear shooting in any direction, completely unobstructed. and you know it. Also, I can show you some of my shotgun ground blinds that have rests in any direction that can simulate benchrest conditions. And just like with a shotgun, I could easily benchrest my crossbow on any of those horizontal log surfaces. So, if you lack the imagination to hunt from the ground in exactly the manner that I described, then perhaps you really are at a disadvantage with your crossbow. And exactly when did you get the idea that the only way to deer hunt is from a tree stand? Oh and by the way, wasn't it you who was talking about how the crossbow would allow people to make more ethical killing shots without the need for all that tedious practice? Which way is it?

Just because you can setup prone doesnt mean youll successfully do it and get a shot at a deer at bow range Doc. A rifle is a completely different animal, you are talking 10 times or more range capability. Lets not start comparing apples and oranges again.

Yes, a crossbow has some advantages for people that are not proficient with a vertical bow, or cannot draw one. Youre being silly if you think a person that is proficient with a bow cant make the same shots with a vertical bow. I practice at 60 yards regularly, and can hit my target just fine out there. Would I take the shot in a hunting situation? Probably not. Would I take it in a hunting situation with a crossbow? Probably not. Why? The same reasons, wind, animal reaction, unseen obstructions at that distance. Its still just an arrow flying through the air off of a string. For people that arent going to practice as much, yes, Id rather see them use something that requires less practice. When did I ever say the contrary?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

since archery season was given the Oct. the 1st opener, why not give crossbow the week before the opener of regular season? I'm all for everyone having a chance to use their weapon of choice in some capacity.

Since it is the tradition and the discipline of true archery that seems to be the concern. How about we leave the compoinds in the first half of bow season and give the more traditional hunting time and season of the seconds half of bow to the longbow and recurve hunters? Put the crossbows up with the compounds since they both aren't "true" archery equipment?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hey, if there needs to be some kind of "compromise", Ill support that one. Split archery in two, first half is compounds and crossbows, second is left to traditional only. Sounds good to me. Then we take gun season (late ML included) and split that in two. First half is any gun, second half muzzle loader only. Im in!

[Five Seasons]

This entire thing has absolutely nothing to do with x-bows being listed as a "legal implement"

 

It has everything to do with just one thing and that is deer hunting period and how many ppl that others care to see or not see during deer seasons  and the i9mpact of more bodies out in the fall woods will have on deer movement and behavior...

 

If you ask and get honest answers a majority  of..NOT ALL... ppl will say they went into bow season to get away from the craziness of gun season and to be safer....They stay and expand their bow hunting for a number of reasons after that...

 

In all these endless pages of forum posts how many have said.... I want to have x-cross bow for turkey ...predator...small game...please show me those many posts and I'd say OK the issue isn't deer season but having another hunting implement...there's a challenge for ya...PS...my posts don't count in that tally..

 

Take deer season out of the equation and I'd bet even money...... they'd be allowed in NYS by now

 

a lot of truth in this post. I will not deny it's part of why I push back so much. However, i do only hunt private land and crossbows would have little affect on me. I would argue the majority of why I started bow hunting was because of the rich tradition it had in my family and not to get away from shotgun, which i still love. When I first got into it, I instantly fell in love with the challenge, the dynamics of the early season and the rut. I see myself as more of an advocate on preserving the season, the sport and the tradition. I do enjoy the fact that not every swinging d!ck in the woods can bowhunt. I do enjoy the fact that's it is sort of like a brotherhood and that it takes time and dedication to be good at it. I do enjoy the fact that those who do not put the time and effort in eventually quit. I like the fact that when I tell other hunters I'm a bowhunter and show them some of my nice bow kills that it usually garners a lot more respect, then simply "yeah I hunt deer". This may get me labeled as an elitist by some, and that's fine. I will not go as far as making the analogy of standing up for our second amendment rights, but it's in the same tune. To preserve what we've known, what we love and what many believe is right.

[WNYBuckHunter]

While I see your view of things as a bit noble, the problem with it is that what we have been doing has been causing a decline in hunter numbers. I love the sport of bow hunting as much as you do, and I want it to continue for my kids and their kids. I realize that if changes arent made, and participation doesnt increase, our numbers will become so small that we will have little to no influence in the political arena, which unfortunately, needs to be there.

 

I also see the crossbow for what it is, and see what changes occurred in states that have already legalized it. I just dont see it making a negative impact. Its not a fix all, but if it brings new hunters into the sport, and keeps some in the game a few years longer, with no negative impact, Im all for it. 

[noahmstone]

This entire thing has absolutely nothing to do with x-bows being listed as a "legal implement"

It has everything to do with just one thing and that is deer hunting period and how many ppl that others care to see or not see during deer seasons and the i9mpact of more bodies out in the fall woods will have on deer movement and behavior...

If you ask and get honest answers a majority of..NOT ALL... ppl will say they went into bow season to get away from the craziness of gun season and to be safer....They stay and expand their bow hunting for a number of reasons after that...

In all these endless pages of forum posts how many have said.... I want to have x-cross bow for turkey ...predator...small game...please show me those many posts and I'd say OK the issue isn't deer season but having another hunting implement...there's a challenge for ya...PS...my posts don't count in that tally..

Take deer season out of the equation and I'd bet even money...... they'd be allowed in NYS by now

I have to agree grow. I got into bow season because everyone I talked to said they saw more deer in bow season and it would give me more time in the woods which was a huge part of the decision making because I don't always get a vacation during deer season and only have time to spend one maybe 2 days a week in the woods. I could care less if they opened crossbow to archery season I would continue to use my bow I have become comfortable enough with my accuracy I wouldn't spend the money on a crossbow. That being said the only time I have ran into someone in the woods while hunting it was my uncle heading out as I was heading in and I wasn't surprised at all to see him. I find poachers to be more of a problem in my area than a high density of hunters.

[Five Seasons]

While I see your view of things as a bit noble, the problem with it is that what we have been doing has been causing a decline in hunter numbers. I love the sport of bow hunting as much as you do, and I want it to continue for my kids and their kids. I realize that if changes arent made, and participation doesnt increase, our numbers will become so small that we will have little to no influence in the political arena, which unfortunately, needs to be there.

 

I also see the crossbow for what it is, and see what changes occurred in states that have already legalized it. I just dont see it making a negative impact. Its not a fix all, but if it brings new hunters into the sport, and keeps some in the game a few years longer, with no negative impact, Im all for it. 

 

bowhunting numbers have been increasing every year. There will be ZERO hunters that start hunting because they can use a crossbow. All it does it extend the season of the gun hunter now wishing to take the easy way into archery. I do not see any youth joining or new hunters joining because now they can use a crossbow. This hunter has already started with a bow or a gun. Best way to get new hunters? more land and better access. #1 issue in our sport hands down.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Belo

[WNYBuckHunter]

bowhunting numbers have been increasing every year.

 

Im talking overall hunting numbers, not bowhunting numbers. I made that perfectly clear already.

 

"There will be ZERO hunters that start hunting because they can use a crossbow. All it does it extend the season of the gun hunter now wishing to take the easy way into archery. I do not see any youth joining or new hunters joining because now they can use a crossbow. This hunter has already started with a bow or a gun."

 

Provide proof and numbers to back up your statements, otherwise you are talking out of your ass. I clearly stated that crossbows arent a fix-all, they are PART of the solution.

 

"Best way to get new hunters? more land and better access. #1 issue in our sport hands down."

 

I agree that land access is another part of the overall problem that needs to be addressed.