Age this buck

[BizCT]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

I absolutely hate the talk about inches .

Same. You can't control inches unless you're willing to travel far or blessed to live in a great genetic area. Age matters most.

[Lawdwaz]

7 minutes ago, BizCT said:

well 2.5 vs 1.5 is obvious on tooth. sure there are 2.5's in there as well. I measured several of the bigger ones and there are a few 108's I recall. Not sure there is any 110's actually. 

So how did you arrive at the 25-30 3.5yo bucks?  Certainly not on inches.....

 

[BizCT]

15 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Always best to say here that buck would be...x years old..  soils are huge factor in size. The valley i am in has been written up since the 40s for is soil and game abundance. 

Old conservationist magazines dont lie..

Agree, know your herd. I think I posted in another thread a side by side 1.5, 2.5, and 3.5 in same exact spot for reference. After running cams in the same spots for 10 years, it becomes pretty clear with the rare outlier. 

Also, simple math right to your point. If 6 adult bucks are killed per square mile in 8R vs. 0.9 in 3R (where @Chef) hunts, then he's got roughly 1/6 the amount of adult bucks. That's why some guys see 30 deer a day and others are happy if they just see 1.

 

 

[BizCT]

8 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

So how did you arrive at the 25-30 3.5yo bucks?  Certainly not on inches.....

 

knowing the herd, like i just mentioned above. our 1.5's look like baby goats with long legs, the 2.5's still have that higher backside and the 3.5's or older look more like racehorses. But we also don't get huge weights in 3N where they eat tree bark and climb hills all day. 2017 or 2018 my Dad shot a nice 8pt. We thought 3.5, The biologist at the butcher said 5.5. It was december and he was rundown from the rut. He weighed 108lbs at the butcher. not a typo. I scored him around 88".

Going forward we will just keep sending the teeth in to deerage like we did last year.

Edited September 27, 2022 by BizCT

[Kmartinson]

51 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

So if your father has killed 25-30 3.5 year old bucks, he's a hell of a trophy hunter and very picky on what he shoots.  Even in the 70's and 80's when Trophy Hunting wasn't the "in" thing?  Impressive......

Hard to believe none of them broke the 115" mark. 

Who (and I hope you don't say the butcher) aged all those bucks?

I dont think many places have genetics that go much over 130/140 in nys. If you get a 100" deer in ny you should understand that's a respectable buck. Many guys don't actually know age or inches, just a bunch of talk.

[WNY Bowhunter]

6 minutes ago, Kmartinson said:

I dont think many places have genetics that go much over 130/140 in nys. If you get a 100" deer in ny you should understand that's a respectable buck. Many guys don't actually know age or inches, just a bunch of talk.

I really try to stay out of threads like this one, but I agree 100%...most guys are clueless and watch too much Outdoor Channel.

I guess I am fortunate/spoiled to have grown up an area of the state that has the potential to produce big deer. I have mounted 4 local bucks over 180" over the past several years since I've taken up taxidermy. I've had my hands on more 140+" deer than the vast majority of people from this state could ever hope to. With this being said, it is still far more common for a fully mature buck around here to be a 130". In real life, most bucks will not blow up in inches from year to year like the ones you see on TV shows. I have three bucks on trail cam this year that I have several yrs  histories with (two 6 yr olds and one 5 yr old) that all probably only gross low 130s.  People that are holding off for the 140 or better here in NY are kind of crazy...lol. You will go many seasons between deer like that out here. 

[Jeremy K]

59 minutes ago, BizCT said:

Same. You can't control inches unless you're willing to travel far or blessed to live in a great genetic area. Age matters most.

That's literally all you care about lol

[BizCT]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

That's literally all you care about lol

Not true at all. My rule is 2.5+. Never an inches minimum or points minimum. in 2016 and 2017, Hank and I shot two beast 4 pointers. Both 15" inside.

[Lawdwaz]

34 minutes ago, Kmartinson said:

I dont think many places have genetics that go much over 130/140 in nys. If you get a 100" deer in ny you should understand that's a respectable buck. Many guys don't actually know age or inches, just a bunch of talk.

They sure as heck don’t know weight either.  

 

[Lawdwaz]

2 minutes ago, BizCT said:

Not true at all. My rule is 2.5+. Never an inches minimum or points minimum. in 2016 and 2017, Hank and I shot two beast 4 pointers. Both 15" inside.

Hang some pics, I forgot what a Beast 4pt looks like.  

 

[BizCT]

1 minute ago, Lawdwaz said:

They sure as heck don’t know weight either.  

 

Agree 100%

[BizCT]

Hang some pics, I forgot what a Beast 4pt looks like.  
 

Maybe they were related. 2016 and 2017. We haven’t seen a big 4pt since. But I think I had one on cam a few years ago. I’ll check the folder






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[LET EM GROW]

14 hours ago, Kmartinson said:

It doesn't really matter to me what you guys are grumbling over. I sent the jaw out because it seemed so young, and that's the results. He looked even bigger when I found him

Do you still have the jaw?

[BizCT]

Who's ready for 10/1?

[Kmartinson]

1 hour ago, WNY Bowhunter said:

I really try to stay out of threads like this one, but I agree 100%...most guys are clueless and watch too much Outdoor Channel.

I guess I am fortunate/spoiled to have grown up an area of the state that has the potential to produce big deer. I have mounted 4 local bucks over 180" over the past several years since I've taken up taxidermy. I've had my hands on more 140+" deer than the vast majority of people from this state could ever hope to. With this being said, it is still far more common for a fully mature buck around here to be a 130". In real life, most bucks will not blow up in inches from year to year like the ones you see on TV shows. I have three bucks on trail cam this year that I have several yrs  histories with (two 6 yr olds and one 5 yr old) that all probably only gross low 130s.  People that are holding off for the 140 or better here in NY are kind of crazy...lol. You will go many seasons between deer like that out here. 

I haven't ever seen a 180" in the woods, lol. In my area we don't have many farms, not too much ag. My dad's biggest buck in a lifetime of hunting was just under 130 in 97', my uncle shot a 155" in late 80s both of those deer were aged by jaw as 5.5yr old. Otherwise there walls are full of velvet skull caps of deer under 110". They all look pretty good in an old picture. Lol

It's a little different for me I'm a little more picky. I cant say I judge deer by inches either, if I like the hunt and it feels good then I make my move. 

The TV and internet sure do make it look easy. 

Your work looks great! 

[Kmartinson]

1 hour ago, LET EM GROW said:

Do you still have the jaw?

I do. I also have the trendy certificate. 

[BizCT]

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/top-10-worst-deer-hunting-states/

We can all be proud that NY is the worst state in america for deer hunting.

[WNY Bowhunter]

 

8 minutes ago, BizCT said:

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/top-10-worst-deer-hunting-states/

We can all be proud that NY is the worst state in america for deer hunting.

I put as much stock in that list as I do the DEC techs who age deer to figure the state's statistics...

Edited September 27, 2022 by WNY Bowhunter

[phade]

3 hours ago, WNY Bowhunter said:

I really try to stay out of threads like this one, but I agree 100%...most guys are clueless and watch too much Outdoor Channel.

I guess I am fortunate/spoiled to have grown up an area of the state that has the potential to produce big deer. I have mounted 4 local bucks over 180" over the past several years since I've taken up taxidermy. I've had my hands on more 140+" deer than the vast majority of people from this state could ever hope to. With this being said, it is still far more common for a fully mature buck around here to be a 130". In real life, most bucks will not blow up in inches from year to year like the ones you see on TV shows. I have three bucks on trail cam this year that I have several yrs  histories with (two 6 yr olds and one 5 yr old) that all probably only gross low 130s.  People that are holding off for the 140 or better here in NY are kind of crazy...lol. You will go many seasons between deer like that out here. 

Agreed as well. 120" is NYSBBC for bow if that says anything. Less than P&Y. I have had a few people who thought they shot a 120-125" in NY get bummed when it tapes out at 110-upper teens, and I always make it a point to remind them that they likely shot a top 10-20% buck across all hunters in the state that season. 

I know of a few people (four) who let 140s go in NY if they are chasing a bigger buck in the area, but they all have one or both characteristics - they have access or control the most prime ground in the best parts of the state and/or they hunt out of state. They all also have deer over the 140 class on the wall. For the ones that go out of state, if there is no giant on their radar, they smack the first 120/130 3.5+ they come across so they can focus more on out of state for the season.

3.5+ y/o bucks are hard to pass in NY IMO, mostly because 4.5+ are much rarer. I would say that is one of the primary reasons I have enjoyed hunting out of state the past few years. I've seen more 4.5+ in those two seasons than I have in the past 10 in NY. Our age structure just isn't where it could be for multiple reasons.

Edited September 27, 2022 by phade

[Lawdwaz]

55 minutes ago, BizCT said:

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/top-10-worst-deer-hunting-states/

We can all be proud that NY is the worst state in america for deer hunting.

At least we are #1 with bass fishing.  

[Swamp_bucks]

21 minutes ago, phade said:

Agreed as well. 120" is NYSBBC for bow if that says anything. Less than P&Y. I have had a few people who thought they shot a 120-125" in NY get bummed when it tapes out at 110-upper teens, and I always make it a point to remind them that they likely shot a top 10-20% buck across all hunters in the state that season. 

I know of a few people (four) who let 140s go in NY if they are chasing a bigger buck in the area, but they all have one or both characteristics - they have access or control the most prime ground in the best parts of the state and/or they hunt out of state. They all also have deer over the 140 class on the wall. For the ones that go out of state, if there is no giant on their radar, they smack the first 120/130 3.5+ they come across so they can focus more on out of state for the season.

3.5+ y/o bucks are hard to pass in NY IMO, mostly because 4.5+ are much rarer. I would say that is one of the primary reasons I have enjoyed hunting out of state the past few years. I've seen more 4.5+ in those two seasons than I have in the past 10 in NY. Our age structure just isn't where it could be for multiple reasons.

I agree 100-120” buck around me could be anywhere from a 2.5 or older and usually one of the most mature deer in the area.  There are some outliers but for the most part 100” deer is a good deer.  If you can shoot a 130 in any part of the state I think your correct you probably killed one of the better bucks for that season.  
 

I’ve personally shot 3 8s over the last 4 years all over 3.5 and range from 85”-128”.  

[The_Real_TCIII]

 
I put as much stock in that list as I do the DEC techs who age deer to figure the state's statistics...

Honestly. I think our deer hunting is pretty great. Factor in the fishing and its a sportsmans paradise


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[Nomad]

29 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Honestly. I think our deer hunting is pretty great. Factor in the fishing and its a sportsmans paradise


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Ya that list doesn’t like that we get snow lol , and pay extra for a bow tag come on . Ok the age structure is off, but it’s trending in the right direction. Hunter density is a tricky one . Take a large state like Montana with few people ,if you just divide the hunters  into square miles ya is low , now put the all the hunters in the river bottoms or on dirt roads near town  …… I’ve been on dirt roads there where it’s guys sitting in pick ups one after another after another , waiting for deer to cross off the private ground onto public .
 I pass up hunting with a friend who,lives in Montana every year ,not worth the hassle to maybe shoot a bigger buck .

We’re worse then Hawaii, Florida ? Ever know anyone who hunts Texas ? You better have big bucks to get on private land to hunt over a feeder  , because public ground is very lacking and the deer are tiny as well .  Ten grand will get you a nice one though if you go private there . I hear  there’s little snow too !

Edited September 27, 2022 by Nomad

[BizCT]

2 hours ago, WNY Bowhunter said:

 

I put as much stock in that list as I do the DEC techs who age deer to figure the state's statistics...

same. just funny i saw it on bowsite today.

[BizCT]

41 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Ya that list doesn’t like that we get snow lol , and pay extra for a bow tag come on . Ok the age structure is off, but it’s trending in the right direction. Hunter density is a tricky one . Take a large state like Montana with few people ,if you just divide the hunters  into square miles ya is low , now put the all the hunters in the river bottoms or on dirt roads near town  …… I’ve been on dirt roads there where it’s guys sitting in pick ups one after another after another , waiting for deer to cross off the private ground onto public .
 I pass up hunting with a friend who,lives in Montana every year ,not worth the hassle to maybe shoot a bigger buck .

We’re worse then Hawaii, Florida ? Ever know anyone who hunts Texas ? You better have big bucks to get on private land to hunt over a feeder  , because public ground is very lacking and the deer are tiny as well .  Ten grand will get you a nice one though if you go private there . I hear  there’s little snow too !

NY is big bucks to get decent land access also. Not everyone married the right person, like you! LOL. I could offer 100 landowners in 3S $10K for 5 days of hunting in november and all 100 will say no!

Edited September 27, 2022 by BizCT