wtf my daughters school telling her hunting is bad

[Doewhacker]

WOW , you said you are required to ask and included some crap on Hipaa and having to report by law. You are wrong and can't admit that.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

§_9.46_Reports_of_substantial_risk_or_threat_of_harm__by__mental__health
12 professionals.
13 (a)__For__purposes__of__this__section,_the_term_"mental_health_profes-
14 sional"_shall_include_a_physician,__psychologist,__registered__nurse__or
15 licensed_clinical_social_worker.
16 (__Notwithstanding__any__other__law__to__the_contrary,_when_a_mental
17 health_professional_currently_providing_treatment_services_to__a__person
18 determines,__in__the__exercise_of_reasonable_professional_judgment,_that
19 such_person_is_likely_to_engage_in_conduct_that_would_result_in__serious
20 harm__to__self_or_others,_he_or_she_shall_be_required_to_report,_as_soon
21 as_practicable,_to_the_director_of_community_services,_or_the_director's
22 designee,_who_shall_report_to_the_division_of_criminal_justice__services
23 whenever__he__or__she_agrees_that_the_person_is_likely_to_engage_in_such
24 conduct.__Information_transmitted_to_the_division__of__criminal__justice
25 services__shall__be__limited_to_names_and_other_non-clinical_identifying
26 information,_which_may_only_be_used_for_determining__whether__a__license
27 issued__pursuant__to_section_400.00_of_the_penal_law_should_be_suspended
28 or_revoked,_or_for_determining_whether_a__person__is__ineligible__for__a
29 license__issued__pursuant__to__section_400.00_of_the_penal_law,_or_is_no
30 longer_permitted_under_state_or_federal_law_to_possess_a_firearm.

 

 

This is from the safe act. If in their judgment (which could be molded by their personal views) they see a loaded weapon in the home as a danger and conduct that posed a threat to others, it appears they can report this? They start out with the legal jargon  about other laws to the contrary so that is where I formed my question about HIPPA.

[Doewhacker]

Thats a bit of a strecth Bob, a gun alone isn't a threat.  A crazy guy saying he is going to harm another is a threat.

[bubba]

that is true in mental health.  if a Psychiatrist feels that in NY a patient is a threat to himself or others it can be reported to the counties director of community services, who in turn contacts Ny state DOJ.  A background check is completed and if and only if the person has a handgun permit, the county will revoke the permit.  Now we all know that when the permit is revoked that take all guns.  However there is an opt out clause.  if the Dr or his designee (MURSE) feels they would put more people in jeopardy to include the Dr's family, they can opt out of reporting.  So in other words it is another dumb par tof the safe act that sounds so good. In The city area as soon as this was enacted there were over 400 reports and two people lost guns.  If they mentally ill person does not have a permit for a handgun, nothing happens.  However if a person is an eminent threat to himself or others, a pickup order is issued and the person is evaluated at the local 939 facility.  

[Doc]

So, exactly when did doctors become members of law enforcement? I think they have an important enough job without getting themselves involved in trying to be confidential street informants. This idea that they should become intimate members of each patient's household and how they conduct their lives seems to me to be just a bit invasive whether it is actually mandated by law, or a position that they have voluntarily inserted themselves into.

 

I have never been asked about firearms in the house, and I wouldn't expect to be. I believe that if I were asked about it, I would insist that office conversations be limited to the medical business that I am paying them for.

[bubba]

In other words a patient comes in to see the Dr. he is a hunter and owns guns.  he tells the Dr that he is unhappy with the safe act and the govt and he feels the govt is trying to infringe on his rights.  The Dr says he is paranoid and delusional about the govt as the DR feels guns should be better controlled.  THe Dr can report him in good faith.  

[Doewhacker]

So, exactly when did doctors become members of law enforcement? I think they have an important enough job without getting themselves involved in trying to be confidential street informants. This idea that they should become intimate members of each patient's household and how they conduct their lives seems to me to be just a bit invasive whether it is actually mandated by law, or a position that they have voluntarily inserted themselves into.

 

I have never been asked about firearms in the house, and I wouldn't expect to be. I believe that if I were asked about it, I would insist that office conversations be limited to the medical business that I am paying them for.

 

It started back when the last whackos that went on shooting spree's told their Dr's that they were going to do harm to others and the Dr's just sat there and did nothing about it.

[Doewhacker]

In other words a patient comes in to see the Dr. he is a hunter and owns guns.  he tells the Dr that he is unhappy with the safe act and the govt and he feels the govt is trying to infringe on his rights.  The Dr says he is paranoid and delusional about the govt as the DR feels guns should be better controlled.  THe Dr can report him in good faith.  

 

Wrong, if he is not threating harm then there is nothing to report. Expressing opinions are not threats.

[virgil]

Bubba, do you still believe that practitioners are required to ask these questions?

[bubba]

Holy **** you are an idiot.  The scenario I posted actually happened in the last office I worked in in mental health. The guy did not lose anything because he did not have a permit.  I love armchair ****** who know it all.  

Edited February 5, 2014 by WNYBuckHunter
Inappropriate language. Keep it clean

[bubba]

OH and btw I left the job becuse of this very situation.   

[steve863]

In other words a patient comes in to see the Dr. he is a hunter and owns guns.  he tells the Dr that he is unhappy with the safe act and the govt and he feels the govt is trying to infringe on his rights.  The Dr says he is paranoid and delusional about the govt as the DR feels guns should be better controlled.  THe Dr can report him in good faith.  

 

 

Why in God's name would anyone bring this subject up with their freaking doctors??  I know none of us like those rectal exams, but come on.  Don't bring a subject like this up or start bad mouthing the government, and maybe the doctor won't have a reason to think you are nuts.  I would think this is common sense.  Make yourself look like a looney tune and some people may start believing it.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Thats a bit of a strecth Bob, a gun alone isn't a threat.  A crazy guy saying he is going to harm another is a threat.

I wasn't trying to stretch anything. It was truthfully a question. I am not overly concerned about the profession as a whole but, as in anything, there may be some that are over zealous. I do have concerns that there are not more defined guidelines guarding against this though. I think the perceived threats  should be more defined. And I would love to have a lawyer on this site that deals in this to answer if that type of information is protected under HIPPA or since it isn't medical if is free to disclose.

 

As I said earlier I left the section blank and didn't fill out the firearms question.

[Doewhacker]

I wasn't trying to stretch anything. It was truthfully a question. I am not overly concerned about the profession as a whole but, as in anything, there may be some that are over zealous. I do have concerns that there are not more defined guidelines guarding against this though. I think the perceived threats  should be more defined. And I would love to have a lawyer on this site that deals in this to answer if that type of information is protected under HIPPA or since it isn't medical if is free to disclose.

 

As I said earlier I left the section blank and didn't fill out the firearms question.

 

It states if the person may do serious harm to themselves or others, thats a pretty clear guideline. Basicaly this now holds mental health care professionals feet to the fire, if some one clearly states they are going to do harm they should be reported. Some of these cases that I mentioned earlier (Holmes, Laughner) the shooters did tell their Dr's they were going to do harm to others and nothing was really done.

 

I don't know about you but I have never threatened any one with harm while at the Dr's, that is a serious red flag.

[PWGUNNY]

BACK ON TOPIC...

Coyote Hunter-  Please update us after you've had your talk with your daughter's teacher.  I'm curious to see the response from the teacher.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It states if the person may do serious harm to themselves or others, thats a pretty clear guideline.

,"in the exercise of reasonable professional judgment, that such person is likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious

 harm to self or others,"

 

I would actually feel more comfortable with your wording. In the legal wording there is judgment involved. Not as clear cut as an overt threat. I believe they included the section for just the reason you stated but, as with much of the law they did a piss poor job. It could be in the judgment of that health care professional that the conduct of having a loaded weapon in the house would result in serious harm to self or others. It should have been written around an actual threat, suicidal comments and illegal activity with the weapon. IMO

[Culvercreek hunt club]

BACK ON TOPIC...

Coyote Hunter-  Please update us after you've had your talk with your daughter's teacher.  I'm curious to see the response from the teacher.

I bet he got detention...lol

[Doewhacker]

,"in the exercise of reasonable professional judgment, that such person is likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious

 harm to self or others,"

 

I would actually feel more comfortable with your wording. In the legal wording there is judgment involved. Not as clear cut as an overt threat. I believe they included the section for just the reason you stated but, as with much of the law they did a piss poor job. It could be in the judgment of that health care professional that the conduct of having a loaded weapon in the house would result in serious harm to self or others. It should have been written around an actual threat, suicidal comments and illegal activity with the weapon. IMO

 

Of course that would make sense so they can't do that, lol

 

It takes a few layers before the police are alerted so hopefully it would taken as serious as it is and they would make the right call. Can you imagine if they didn't make the right call the trouble they would be in.

[silent death]

I went in to the school and the teacher is a real animal

Lover she really didn't wanna here what I had to say

So I talked to the principal and the response I got was

That he will check into it . But he also said it was not something

That they are suppose to be. Teaching....I also called the school

Superintendent..the principal did say to me that it was wrong for

The teacher to do what she did ......Iam still waiting to

Here from the school super....I ain't letting this slide ....

Edited February 5, 2014 by coyote hunter

[Doewhacker]

I went in to the school and the teacher is a real animal

Lover she really didn't wanna here what I had to say

So I talked to the principal and the response I got was

That he will check into it . But he also said it was not something

That they are suppose to be. Teaching....I also called the school

Superintendent..the principal did say to me that it was wrong for

The teacher to do what she did ......Iam still waiting to

Here from the school super....I ain't letting this slide ....

 

I strongly recomend following up with letters so it is all documented, a conversation can be denied but a letter cannot.

[Doc]

It started back when the last whackos that went on shooting spree's told their Dr's that they were going to do harm to others and the Dr's just sat there and did nothing about it.

Those incidents have been the excuse for all kinds of weird invasive changes. I'm beginning to think doctors should have badges if they are to be considered another branch of law enforcement. Perhaps the Hippocratic oath should be modified a bit to include some of the cop's oath.....lol.

[virgil]

Send a letter to the supeintendant summarizing your telephone conversation with him and tell him that you look forward to hearing back from him with the results of his investigation.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Send a letter to the supeintendant summarizing your telephone conversation with him and tell him that you look forward to hearing back from him with the results of his investigation.

Certified, return receipt 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Along with an email

[Doewhacker]

Send a letter to the supeintendant summarizing your telephone conversation with him and tell him that you look forward to hearing back from him with the results of his investigation.

 

And takes notes on every phone call you have too.

 

My wife and I are doing all this for a different subject but the same methods should be done.

 

Its amazing the way things change after 6 letters in a week and a half.