Nuisance Permits?

[erussell]

Well how about a little view from a land owner and farmers (and no we do not get NP).I can show you lots of deer damage in our vineyards. So you want me to let every Tom, Dick and Harry on my property? Why should I have to just more goverment control. Do these hunters pay my School and Property taxes and insurance ?  I agree that there are too many NP given out. I think if NP are to be given out, that if the farmer does not want the deer, that the deer should be donated and not just left to rot in a field. Also the DEC also gives out Land Owners DMP permits (which can only be used on that land during regular deer season). I seen a farmer with only 100 acres get over 10 of these regular permits. His land is mostly pasture and hay fields. The DEC does give of these permits like candy on Halloween.

Sweet what vineyard are you from? Did a tour of the cayuga and Seneca vineyards this yr and had a blast.

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

I dont know about wary deer. Not in these times. And it is NOT because of overpopulation!

[HectorBuckBuster]

Errussell, my dad used to be the largest grape grower in New York State in the 70's and president of the NYS Grape Growers Association, until the grape market collapsed in the late 70-80's.My dad used to grow over 1500 acres of grapes at one time,and had a customer grape picking business. We are on Seneca Lake, we don't have a Winery, but still grow grapes for the farmers markets in NYC. Most of the Winery's now really only grow a few acres of grapes for looks, as most of them just buy their juice from the larger winery's. Alot of the winery's are just a hobby for people, looks good when a lawyers tells everyone he owns a winery. There are some that are still family owned.If you look alot are all owned by a few people, and they own several.

[NYBowhunter]

The farmer down the road from me uses another approach to deer control, he leases his property to a LI hunting club and with the help of his family they take 30 + deer each year from his farm. No Nuisance Permits, just alot of hunters. The farmer told me that he needs that many deer gone each year just to keep the deer population in check. The farmer said that even with this control, he could go out on any given night and see 50 deer in the harvested corn fields.

[jr.deerslayer]

100% agree.  If you feel you have a deer problem let people hunt it.  Rather than permits the state should give each farmer a legal liability waver to have people sign to hunt their land.  And if you do not allow people to hunt.  The problem can't be that bad can it.

Are you crazy? Would you like every hunter in the county to tromp all over your fields? I know I would'nt, its seems like you think the farmers owe you something..they dont i assure you. And I'm fairly certain farmers dont get the permits for fun. We hunt and own 200 acres we dont get the permits, but I assure you if I wanted them I would get them. And if you said something like that to me (who was losing money due to deer),or brought the idea to another farmer. We would be tempted to get the permits and kill every deer in the area, just to prove the point and ruin it for you.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

a deer can probably east 5 to 6 pounds of food a day....extend that out for a 4 month crop and abuot 50 deer.

That is 5 pounds x 50 deer= 250 pounds a day

250 pound per day x 122 days = 30,500 pounds of product.

corn might go fo $4.50 a bushel ( I am no where near sure of this)

50 - 60 pounds in a bushel so they get about $.08 per pound for corn

30,500 pounds x .08= $2,440 in crop damage for 50 deer

[5.9cummins]

This is a cute thread.

Be-careful boys. I wouldn't go biting the hand that feeds me.

culver

FYI its Caliper not caliber when you size a tree.

http://www.donnan.com/standards.htm

[Culvercreek hunt club]

This is a cute thread.

Be-careful boys. I wouldn't go biting the hand that feeds me.

culver

FYI its Caliper not caliber when you size a tree.

http://www.donnan.com/standards.htm

I know...typo

[Nomad]

FWIW, the farm I hunt is about 3,000 acres, they get TWO nuisance permits. The farmers ,who don't get to hunt much during the season due to well ,farming use them to fill their freezers, a wopping two deer.

With some luck they'll get out a handfull of days and whack a couple more. Nuisance permits in NYS account for 2% of the whole deer take a tiny number overall.Heck nice weather on opening day has a much bigger effect on the deer take.

[fasteddie]

FWIW, the farm I hunt is about 3,000 acres, they get TWO nuisance permits. The farmers ,who don't get to hunt much during the season due to well ,farming use them to fill their freezers, a wopping two deer.

With some luck they'll get out a handfull of days and whack a couple more. Nuisance permits in NYS account for 2% of the whole deer take a tiny number overall.Heck nice weather on opening day has a much bigger effect on the deer take.

Larry , that doesn't make sense . I know a landowner who owns 67 acres of which all is not farmable . She gets 2 permits automatically when she gets her hunting license . So , are the farmers you mentioned going through the process of applying for nuisance permits or just getting the hunting permits . I know farmers who complain about deer but won't take the time to visit the town clerk and do the paperwork for the permits because "they don't have time" .

[Nomad]

Well i know these guys pretty well, they have the same last name as my wife did. They get 20 DMAPS ( cut down this year ) and 2 NP.

I know, i asked if I could use one, so my daughter could "hunt" before she left for college late August. My plan was to stand hunt day time so it would be a more real hunt.

I was told " we only get 2,and I use them for my meat ".

I've hunted this farm for over 2o years its a big opperation and they rent my 116 acres of farmland. We're on good terms and I'm certin of the numbers. 20 DMAPS and 2 NP.

Its is weird when I hear these stories of guys killing 60 on NP and so forth. My understanding is its all up to the "guy" in your area from the dec. It would seem some pass them out a little free'er then others...

Larry

[HectorBuckBuster]

Land Owner Permits are different the DMP. To get the land owners permits you have to have the DEC come out and look at the damage down, same with the NP. I believe if you get NP, then the land owner permits for regular deer season are sent to you automatic.

[Nomad]

Not sure what "land owner permits " are ?  As a land owner I get first crack at doe permits( DMP's). NP yes they have to come out and 'look" at damage. Dmaps are extra doe tags used during the season 2 per hunter. These are not DMP which are the doe tags all apply for.

Dmap's you have to have damage as well but its just a form and listing amount of land, amount of crops, damage,  etc. damage for 3 years and up is "on going" less then that may be verified by the DEC as time permits......

Larry

[HectorBuckBuster]

The land owners would be the Dmap permits. The land owners get alot of this to give out. So someone could shoot at least 6 deer on one property during hunting seasons if their DMP permits where for that area, counting their bow, and regular buck tag. 

[fasteddie]

So in essence , the farmers could shoot a total of 22 deer . Why didn't they share a portion of the 20 ?

[132 eight pointer]

I have been hunting aprox. 25 yrs. Some of the places I hunt have far fewer deer now than in the past.I am not a biologist so I do not know what is the correct population figures for whitetail for a given area.I am not an agricultural engineer (farmer) however I do respect and support the local growers when I can.I also realize that the land owners/farmers are the reason a lot of whitetails survive in the first place.Having said this,I do have a problem justifying stories I hear of numerous deer being shot like varmints and left to nature.I have the opinion that nuisance permits are freely given out,the results poorly documented and the end result is fewer deer available for the common hunter.I have heard of some large farming businesses that do not mind hunters being in the woods that they own.I believe there must be a better way to join hunters and agriculture in a mutually beneficial way.If not then we are screwed!

[Nomad]

Fasteddie, again they get 2 NP which they fill and 20 DMAPs which are 2 PER HUNTER . 20 divided by 2 = 10 hunters to fill them, basically guys use the DMAPs not their doe tags . They also share their land, we all get our own area to hunt. Mine they bush hog and mow parts of it for me.I also can build huts,post and basically do as I please .

Hector your close. I get 7 tags not 6, 5 between bow and gun and 2 DMAPs. I seldom fill more then 4 or 5 though. I use the DMAP tags for guys I bring down and don't have a doe tag for the area . I like to share as well .

132 8pt. that was a good post. I have questions myself. If the farm I hunt which is around 3,000 acres only gets 2 NP, how is it we hear these stories of piles of deer shot and left to die on small farms with handfulls of NP's. Could it be just that stories ? Some folks say they saw bigfoot or mountain lions in NYS too........

The facts are DMAPs account for 10,000 deer killed per year about 5 %  of the whole take and NP's ( correctly called DDP's btw ) about 2% not real high numbers to get worked up over .

[backstrapper]

I don't see why they need permits. We have to pay out the arse for the tags and they get them for free and eradicate a natural resource that belongs to all NYers. I don't see how that is fair at all. Make them pay for the permits to or open up there land to hunters.

Apples to oranges, they are protecting their livliehood.  Do you want the govn't telling us we can't have guns in our house to protect our family and property then who are we to tell the farmers they can't protect their land?  Sounds hypocritical to me. 

20 deer a sit?  SOunds like a you were in a area that is/was over populated. Down in 3c you may see 6-8 deer or zero, but that's why it's called hunting not killing.  I guess some of like the scouting, figuring, sitting, challenge, and some guys just want to walk inpick a nice out of a large group and call it a season.  TO each their own but I personally enjoy the challenge of the hunt.

[erussell]

Errussell, my dad used to be the largest grape grower in New York State in the 70's and president of the NYS Grape Growers Association, until the grape market collapsed in the late 70-80's.My dad used to grow over 1500 acres of grapes at one time,and had a customer grape picking business. We are on Seneca Lake, we don't have a Winery, but still grow grapes for the farmers markets in NYC. Most of the Winery's now really only grow a few acres of grapes for looks, as most of them just buy their juice from the larger winery's. Alot of the winery's are just a hobby for people, looks good when a lawyers tells everyone he owns a winery. There are some that are still family owned.If you look alot are all owned by a few people, and they own several.

cool, sipping on a glass of goose watch diamond right now. Not the best imo I prefer Thirsty Owl's diamond. Goes good with deer meat. 

[Santamour123]

Does nay one know the date that nuisance permits are done. (winter).  Why I ask is this,  They are antlerless only but some buck drop in late December. and also If they are supposed to help a farmer deal with crop damage.  But. by allowing them to shoot deer in the winter they are shooting some yarded deer.  These deer have nothing to do with their crops.

[Nomad]

Ok lets start with the right terms so we're all on the same page. : )

DDP's -  These are what most call nuisance permits. One can use these to kill deer by almost any fashion. At night, with rifles in shotgun zones and so forth.

DMAP's - These are extra doe tags ,which a farm,town etc. may get. They are 2 per hunter and good only during the season.

Then there is DMP. The doe tags we all get ( hopefully).

The DDP's seem to be issued in far fewer numbers and they get them in the summer, which is when the farm I hunt fills them.I don't know about using them after the season.

DMAPS come out just before the hunting season and are like I said 2 per hunter good only during the season .

Both DDP's and DMAP's are issued for damage .

I'll check with the farm to see if DDP's are good other times.

[fasteddie]

Larry , Do a RSVP on the DDp's PDQ !

[SteveB]

DDP's -  These are what most call nuisance permits. One can use these to kill deer by almost any fashion. At night, with rifles in shotgun zones and so forth.

Doe only for the most part.

Up to 11pm - rifles allowed as stated.

Unless the damage is severe, I doubt many are issued before spring.

[Nomad]

LOL as my kids would type.....

[fasteddie]

We have shot deer with the DDPs in crop fields . It's does only and you can shoot up until 11pm and use artificial light . When it starts to get dark , we quit as we don't want to be shooting a rifle at night even though it's legal .