D&DH here comes the early ml season....

[gjs4]

Did anyone catch the state of the whitetail article with Jeremy Hurst's last line stating "and possibly a new antler less muzzleloader season". Here it comes-

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[burmjohn]

Where the hell would they put this? I hope not into the archery season, but If I had to bet it would be the last 2 weeks with the xbow.

[SteveB]

Got a link?

[wooly]

Saw it in the October issue of NAW.

 

 

"However, deer populations in some portions of the state have been quite resilient tour reduction efforts, and our liberal antlerless tag opportunities exceed demand by hunters in some management units. In these units, our management plan calls for us to consider antlerless-only portions of bow and muzzleloader seasons and possibly a new antlerless only muzzleloader season."

 

[ATbuckhunter]

I hope its not during the rut or before the rut! 

[gjs4]

September. There was some commentary on this last year releaSed from the Dec on how it is a misconception such a season would alter deer behavior in archery.

Coming to the conclusion anything from albany is crap fueled by someone's personal agenda

Sorry it was North American whitetail not deer and deer hunting

[Terry]

How early in September? A buck in velvet would look awesome on my wall!

Edit: I read it again and see it's antlerless

Edited September 27, 2014 by Terry

[ny hunter]

There was talk about this years ago.

[gjs4]

Heard of three guys in one town on different dmaps all getting caught poaching bucks. I am sure this season would have many a cheater opting for a velvet it easy to pattern rack

There has been talk for yrs. The oct 1 openers for archers was a little bit of lube to help other agendas get inserted

[WNYBuckHunter]

I havent seen it yet, but was he speaking about NY, or just overall, or for any specific areas?

[bubba]

You guys are way behind the curve.  We have had an early ml season here in the north for many many years. I want to say early 80s. Always the week before regular season.  it is either sex in my area.  Works well.  The handwriting on the wall for crossbow and now early ml season, I guess the bow hunters are not as strong as they thought they were.  Slowly moving toward universal seasons across the state.  Sells guns sells tags all good for the state coffers. 

[Larry]

They've been talking about a 1 week early ML season in the southern zone for some time now. It was to take place in WMU's with high deer numbers (deer focus areas). It would not take place though out the entire southern zone. So you may see it happen lets say 8G where they can't give out enough DMP's to get the doe harvest they want and then you wouldn't see it happen in 8M where they are with in 10% of there harvest goal.  

[gjs4]

What's ironic is i hunt 4 farms and manage a good sized one (for deer) in 8g and have no idea where The hell they have this idea 60000 doe permits are necessary. What do they base the population census on? What do they base the actual take on? How much is lining there pockets? I have Zero hope in the DEC managing anything other than making it a bigger mess than it is. A stated above- it's just about dollars anyway ... Not deer.

[gjs4]

Wish they would put more Ecos out who wrote citations that went to the state not the town.... Maybe the outlaw population would diminish and the crooks in Albany would find a new enjoyable revenue stream.

Bit would I love to hear about the "selfish Bowhunters" from some crossbow crybaby now.... You're welcome. Starting to feel like my love of bow hunting is like being married to Ray Rice

[Larry]

First the state dose not make extra money by increasing the number of DMP's in any one WMU. There is only so many hunters that would hunt that WMU no matter how many DMP's are available. Once you pay your $10 you can get up to 4 DMP's.
Here is why they are giving out so many DMP's. So lets take WMU 8G last year they gave out about 37000, out of that many DMP's 5162 antlerless deer were harvested 17.1 to 19.1% of that number were buck fawns. 8G has a buck harvest goal of 2.5 bucks per sq.mile the buck harvest for 8G last year was 4.3 bucks per sq. mile. So they increased the DMP's for this year the success rate in 8G is 13.9%. The numbers came from the DEC weather you think there numbers are right or not doesn't matter unless you can prove theirs are wrong. Remember WMU 8G is 686.2sq. Miles they have to manage all of it not just our little parts.  

[gjs4]

So if I make up numbers and say disprove them I am as right as you and your dec quote right? How do they determine the actual population that's there to know how many does need to go? Do they audit all 686.2 miles? Do they stop by ever processor and see what they have and what about all of us that don't use processors? This tit for tat game is silly- and because you can quote their rhetoric doesn't give your point any validity over the fact they don't accurately know what is there and what was killed.

There's money involved with everything they do.... We didn't need crossbows they needed more license sales and gun is about tapped out.

Think more- cut and paste less.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

As Larry said, Old news. They have talked about an early ML  in the last two DEC reports I recall reading. In those focus areas that need additional reductions. If you look at the harvest numbers, it is clear that as Archers we can't come close t being a real tool to reduce numbers. The real reduction takes place with firearms.

[phade]

It's coming. Better get used to it.

 

Problem is I think they're going to base this off of their system, which has proven to hamstring the state's population once already. That is the part that really concerns me. Not just about messing up the season...messing up the future next 5-10 years with a mistake like that.

[phade]

First the state dose not make extra money by increasing the number of DMP's in any one WMU. There is only so many hunters that would hunt that WMU no matter how many DMP's are available. Once you pay your $10 you can get up to 4 DMP's.

Here is why they are giving out so many DMP's. So lets take WMU 8G last year they gave out about 37000, out of that many DMP's 5162 antlerless deer were harvested 17.1 to 19.1% of that number were buck fawns. 8G has a buck harvest goal of 2.5 bucks per sq.mile the buck harvest for 8G last year was 4.3 bucks per sq. mile. So they increased the DMP's for this year the success rate in 8G is 13.9%. The numbers came from the DEC weather you think there numbers are right or not doesn't matter unless you can prove theirs are wrong. Remember WMU 8G is 686.2sq. Miles they have to manage all of it not just our little parts.  

 

That has been proven. Just look back ten years...same system.

[gjs4]

Exactly my point.

Geese 15 yrs ago were one each now they're 15. Party permits and landowner status had is killing two does on the farm 15 years ago now you can 6 with just a license and the bonus tags.

The census system isn't there and the harvest reporting and statistical assumption setup is not much better.

What a F ing joke.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Reported success rates are what they are. Im sure the formulas the DEC uses take averages of factors like guys that dont report, road kills, etc into account when they come up with their numbers. Im not 100% on every source they figure the numbers from, but they do have people that go out to the processors regularly, they have the harvest reports, and alot of farms that get DMAPs, DDPs, etc, get assessed from time to time. I know every so many years, the farm I hunt, has the DEC come out and do surveys, mostly DEC guys counting deer over so many days by glassing the property. They also check the crop fields and look at the browsing levels.

 

Is it perfect? No, but its the best they can do with the resources they have.

 

Crossbows are not going to make as big of a dent as some people think. Its been proven in other states and theres no reason to think it will go much differently here. As far as the money thing goes, you are asking for more ENCON officers, but then complaining about the DEC bringing in more money. Cant have it both ways.

 

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

BTW, was that article about NY? Maybe I missed that.

[gjs4]

Broken is not an acceptable best.

Glad you see them. How can you glass woods or secluded food sources, let alone levy that observation on a general level because you may be on a hot food source Ina unique area?

I was saying they could do something productive to secure money's not just sell more stamps.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Broken is not an acceptable best.

Glad you see them. How can you glass woods or secluded food sources, let alone levy that observation on a general level because you may be on a hot food source Ina unique area?

I was saying they could do something productive to secure money's not just sell more stamps.

 

Im just telling you how they do it at our farm, and generally, thats how guys that manage properties do it as well. Glassing, trail cam surveys, etc.

 

I agree that they need to crack down on poachers, and that the system could be improved, but I have yet to hear anyone throw some ideas out there on how to make that happen.

 

[phade]

I always forget, but are ECOs funded by the general fund?

 

Either way, a ML season shouldn't be taken lightly. They've been paving this road for a while and it's one that to me is just shaping up because they keep issuing DMPs. To me, if a ML anterless was warranted, there should be added research that goes into it above and beyond the standard. We're talking about a specific season to target anterless to control population in a localized (wmu specific) area. It doesn't take much to throw the balance off. With the impact the DEC had with the debacle of "increasing DMPS" to the point the statewide herd numbers drastically reduced, taking 5-10 years to get ballpark back to norm, it only demands increased monitoring and justification. Justification doesn't come from the % of tags filled. It comes from much more detailed census work.

 

WMUs slated for the antlerless season should be given the check station requirement for the prior year. More money? Yes. More admin? Yes. Worth not screwing up the herd balance with facts? Yes.