traditional archery

[Hunterny28]

The other day I was remembering the days of shooting my grandpa's bear long bow. I would like to get back into it I am thinking. I will just mainly be target shooting for now. If I end up shooting well, maybe I can try some hunting with it. I am looking at a 45-50 pound take down recurve. Any suggestions on bows? Any other input would be great as well!

[MACHINIST]

I have the samick sage and I want to get 35 pound limbs to get shooting good then put the 45 pound limbs back on to hunt one year

[nyantler]

Try Tradgang.com everything trad there

[SteveB]

Good idea for most to start at no more than 40 lbs.

To learn to shoot well is a reasonable time frame, you must be able to have total control of the shot for every arrow in a practise session.

[Hunterny28]

Thanks for the input guys. I will check out the website. What arrows are you guys shooting?

[sweet old bill]

Easton 500 carbon at 30 inch long with 125 gr points and 3 5 inch feathers or 5.5 inch banana fletch feathers.

 

 

[Doc]

Starting off at 45# - 50# might not be a real good idea. I have no idea what your body structure is like, but I will say that starting off over-bowed is never a good idea.

 

Getting into traditional archery is not something that will happen quickly. It is far more important to start off with a rather inexpensive bow of a weight you can easily handle and build in good shooting form, consistency and control so that you have a decent chance of success. Over-bowed, you will burn out quickly, not to mention the potential for back and shoulder injury. If it were me, I would start with a cheap 35# or even 30# and build into that 45# to 50# deer hunting weight.

[SteveB]

I shoot carbons. Which one depends entirely on bow wght, draw length, and centershot.

[Hunterny28]

Starting off at 45# - 50# might not be a real good idea. I have no idea what your body structure is like, but I will say that starting off over-bowed is never a good idea.

 

Getting into traditional archery is not something that will happen quickly. It is far more important to start off with a rather inexpensive bow of a weight you can easily handle and build in good shooting form, consistency and control so that you have a decent chance of success. Over-bowed, you will burn out quickly, not to mention the potential for back and shoulder injury. If it were me, I would start with a cheap 35# or even 30# and build into that 45# to 50# deer hunting weight.

 

thank you doc- I appreciate you guys looking out for me in that sense. I am a bigger guy- that has no problem drawing back a 60-70 pound compound. I know that is a different animal in a way. I do have problems with my left shoulder being sore- but I do not let bother me. I had a football injury when I was younger. I will look into a nice 30 to 35 pound bow. 

 

 

  I am going to be purchasing before the end of the year as I want to start practicing. Is here any places around CNY that sell or cater to traditional bows that I should check out. 

Edited December 19, 2014 by Hunterny28

[tommyc50]

samick sage take down very versitile can order different limbs three rivers archery online i bought mine from them would seggest go to a pro shop and get your arrows ect the quality is much better i bought the ready to shoot package very basic not very good

[dbHunterNY]

shooting arrows off the shelf.  I shoot full length Goldtip traditional hunter 5575's (.400 spine) with 5" feathers, 100gr brass insert, and 20gr screw-in insert weight.  all that is tipped with a Hellrazor 100gr head.  FOC is around 16-17% and weight is about 540gr.
 

I'd get 45 lbs limbs and have the bow tuned with arrows you can hunt with.  that way you used to the same setup you'll possibly hunt with.  it's like throwing a baseball.  if I give you a ball, a little different, say a softball, it'll throw a little different too.

 

[MrGroundhog]

I would start with a lighter lb bow for sure. But what it all boils down to for me is consistency. Doing everything exactly the same everytime I grip, draw, anchor and release. it may seem so simple but there really is a lot of details to consider like brace height, arrow spine and weight, split finger or three under etc... You really just have to practice a lot and continue to be consistent with what works for you.

[nyantler]

I think that most guys get a bit over board with the complexity of traditional archery... just pick up any weight bow that's comfortable that you can draw to 28 inches... get some arrows that match closely to the weight you're shooting... then a tab or glove...  whichever you prefer to protect your fingers... adjust brace height and nock placement based on some test arrows... then shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.. start at 10 yards until you can consistently shoot a good group, then move out little by little to 20 yards... the time to tweek things is after you have become comfortable with just learning the art of instinctive shooting... trad archery, like anything, can get as technical as you want it to get... have fun first, make sure it's something you're going to enjoy... delving in to all the intricate stuff will be much easier the more you enjoy it... there plenty of time later to get deep into it.

[nyantler]

I shoot a heavy spined cedar arrow with 125 grain 2 blade Zwicki broadheads... but I shoot 60 lbs.

[turkeyfeathers]

Want a challenge and something to do ? Look into making and shooting a primitive bow. My buddy is big into this. Makes his bows from hornbeam, measures the poundage, draw length, carp and rattle snake backs them, arrows are made, flint arrowheads, turkey wing feathers (compliments of me) , attaches everything with deer sinew, hunts in primitive gear. ANY deer with this set up is a trophy. He also hunts with a real flintlock. He kills deer every year with both. It's very labor intensive with a lot of research and time to build your own bow but he compares it to catching trout on flies you've tied yourself . Just on a bigger scale

[Hunterny28]

Nyantler- thank you. I tend to get into technical stuff early. I just need to have fun. And learn as I go!

Turkey feathers that is amazing! I wish I had the time and patience to craft my own bow. Someday I want to get a flint lock muzzle loader.

The samick sage is a top choice as its cheap and has good reviews. I like how you can change up the limbs for different poundage later on.

[thphm]

Go to a store and pick a few bows off of the shelf 30 - 50 pound draw weight at your length of draw, For get that Matcho C***P that I can draw a 75 lb. bow , Now try holding each weight at full draw for 1 minute ( if you ever have a 10 point buck standing behind a tree ) you will know why I am saying to hold it for that amount of time and see which you can hold and then release after that amount of time.

As SOB and I are the same age I also shoot carbon arrows 30 inches long with broadheads and real feather fletching with waterproofing on them.

Hint: forget shooting groups ( it cost $ ) get a target with 5 or more circles on it try shooting one arrow in each circle.

[wildcat junkie]

The other day I was remembering the days of shooting my grandpa's bear long bow. I would like to get back into it I am thinking. I will just mainly be target shooting for now. If I end up shooting well, maybe I can try some hunting with it. I am looking at a 45-50 pound take down recurve. Any suggestions on bows? Any other input would be great as well!

I was involved heavily with traditional archery during the mid '90s. Anyone that went to the big East coast all traditional events in that period would probably recognize my business name. My wife & I were one of the top producers of high quality cedar arrows.

 

Unless you are going to travel by air, there's really not much rational for a take down bow. I don't think I have ever seen anyone disassemble a take down bow. For the price of a take down bow with extra limbs you could have a pair of 1-piece recurve bows.

 

One peice bows are lighter & in some respects, smoother. They are also generaly less expensive as pointed out above.

 

45-50# isn't too much for an average adult male. I sarted at 45# at 14 years of age & soon graduated to 55#. A 45# recurve bow with a cedar arrow & a good, properly sharpened cut on contact broadhead will pass completely through a deers ribcage.

 

Your initial 45-50# range would probably be a good place to start.

 

I don't think anyone here addressed fit. If you are short in stature, you will get the best performance out of a short bow, perhaps 58". It will have a little better cast at shorter draw lengths. If you are say 5'10" or more, then the added smoothness of a 62" bow will works better for longer draw lengths.

 

 

I think that most guys get a bit over board with the complexity of traditional archery... just pick up any weight bow that's comfortable that you can draw to 28 inches... get some arrows that match closely to the weight you're shooting... then a tab or glove...  whichever you prefer to protect your fingers... adjust brace height and nock placement based on some test arrows... then shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.. start at 10 yards until you can consistently shoot a good group, then move out little by little to 20 yards... the time to tweek things is after you have become comfortable with just learning the art of instinctive shooting... trad archery, like anything, can get as technical as you want it to get... have fun first, make sure it's something you're going to enjoy... delving in to all the intricate stuff will be much easier the more you enjoy it... there plenty of time later to get deep into it.

 

 

I shoot a heavy spined cedar arrow with 125 grain 2 blade Zwicki broadheads... but I shoot 60 lbs.

 

 

Good advise.

[wildcat junkie]

I shoot a heavy spined cedar arrow with 125 grain 2 blade Zwicki broadheads... but I shoot 60 lbs.

I have several thousand 32" Port Orford cedar sharts in the barn. Many of them are already hand spined & weight matched.

 

PM if you are interested in buying some or all of them.

 

EDIT: I also have several hundred left wing full length Tru-Flight feathers. Even some natural barred.

Edited December 20, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

thank you doc- I appreciate you guys looking out for me in that sense. I am a bigger guy- that has no problem drawing back a 60-70 pound compound. I know that is a different animal in a way. I do have problems with my left shoulder being sore- but I do not let bother me. I had a football injury when I was younger. I will look into a nice 30 to 35 pound bow. 

 

 

  I am going to be purchasing before the end of the year as I want to start practicing. Is here any places around CNY that sell or cater to traditional bows that I should check out. 

If you know what you are lookin for, I might go out & rumage through my stuff. Lots of accessories but I don't know what is left. I have a few dozen finished cedar arrows, but to start out, you would probably be better suited to using XX75 aluminum arrows for the cost factor as if you start playing around you will lose some arrows. If you want to stump shoot, probably the best practice for hunting, "judo points" are awesome as it makes it nearly impossible to lose an arrow.

Edited December 20, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[Doc]

I didn't see where anyone asked, so I will:

 

Will you be shooting with a sight or instinctive?

[Hunterny28]

Doc I want to shoot instinctive. It is something that is a challenge, I am looking forward to. I have the compound bow for sights.

[Hunterny28]

Wild cat junkie thank you for the detailed advice. I am going to look into an aluminum arrow at rhe time being. Until I am good with the bow I do not want to lose/break wooden arrows. But in the future they seem like a good concept to get closer to the traditional sense. I will keep you in mind.

[wildcat junkie]

Wild cat junkie thank you for the detailed advice. I am going to look into an aluminum arrow at rhe time being. Until I am good with the bow I do not want to lose/break wooden arrows. But in the future they seem like a good concept to get closer to the traditional sense. I will keep you in mind.

If you are shooting instictive (sights don't work all that well on traditional bows) you will also probably want to shoot "off the shelf". (It is quieter & less likely to cause an equipment related failure) Do not try to use spine charts that are geared towards mechanical rests & center shot configuartion.

 

As an example, a 2219 XX75 shaft is spec'ed by Easton as spined properly for a 60# recuve @ 28".

 

In reality, they are spined for traditional bows in the 75# range.

 

Black Widow bows have the sight window cut past center & thus need heavier shaft spine. It is not, as they claim, because their bows shoot harder. They are also hard to tune. I used to build out the window plate with leather to allow Black Widow bows to shoot less spine & be easier to tune.

 

For a 45-50# recuve at 28# draw, a 2016 aluminum shaft would probably be about right. Try shooting a  bare shaft into a clean piece of cardboard (not a lot of holes) on a bale butt from about 3 yds. Start with the shaft a few inched longer that minimum & trim back the length until yiu get the straightest penetration. What you are doing is catching the arrow just as should be recovering the 1st time from the "archer's paradox". If the knock end is tilted away from the bow, the spine is too stiff. If it is tilted towards the bow the arrow is flexing too much & need more spine.

 

You probably won't get a perfectly straight in penetration, but tuning for the best  results will make the arrow fly true W/O large fletching. Low profile 5" feathers should be plenty for a 45# bow, even with broadheads.. The more feather that you need for stable flight, the faster the velocity will bleed off.

 

After you have learned & arrow loss isn't as much concern, GOOD QUALITY, PRECISELY STRAIGHTENED & MATCHED cedar arrows will have advantages, especially when shooting off the shelf. They will be much quieter & will also be more forgiving when shooting with fingers than aluminum or carbon. We used to sell matched shafts to a guy in FL that shot competition & he was very competitive. He claimed they were more accurate shooting off the shelf with fingers than man made shaft material because of their forgivness to the variables of finger shooting..

 

If you want to really have fun get some Judo points & walk through the woods/fields shooting at SOFT tagets of opporunity. It's called "stump shooting", but often the targets are conspicuous leaves, ferns. Dandelion heads, etc.  Stumps are OK if they are rotten, but if they aren't, they are hard on arrows. this type of practice is the best practice for hunting. You can shoot downward from banks for tree stand practice. Judo points will all but eliminate arrow loss. The only time i have lost an arrow with a Judo point was when a sharply oblique angle on a hard target snapped the point off.

 

 

 

Here are the cedar Arrows I used to hunt with.

 

 

 

 

You're going to have a lot of fun!

Edited December 20, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[Hunterny28]

Those judo points are interesting looking things. I like the idea of stump shooting for training. I will have to look into those.

I want to shoot off the shelf. As well. But was wondering about the vanes on the arrow. I want to be able to shoot aluminum with vanes and eventually a wood arrow with feathers. Can this be done off the shelf?