Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[jjb4900]

last night i had a deer biologist confirm to me that going to (1) buck WON'T work well enough to be biologically sound.  also i think that'd just aggravate hunters by eliminating opportunity regardless of what's in front of you.

much like the aggravation of having to hunt under the current mandatory AR's that were imposed in some areas...........

Edited January 21, 2015 by jjb4900

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Why do they need more than 1 male if they can also take females?  Cant eat the rack remember?

IIRC I think he is in an area with moderate to low permits issued.

[dbHunterNY]

Why do they need more than 1 male if they can also take females?  Cant eat the rack remember?

 

i don't think the 1 buck thing is about filling the freezer for those i talked to.  they just like the opportunity at taking a buck as they hunt throughout the season.  many now we've convinced to shoot a doe to fill the freezer, with an emphasis of taking no more than a 1/3 so we're not taking too many.  don't have to tell me you can't eat antlers.  i took 3 doe this past season.  2 for my family and 1 for my parents.  i waited into the season a bit to allow others hunting there an opportunity.  we set a limit for doe harvest on the property based my trail cam survey and then scaled back to meet the comfort level of my dad (owner of the farm).  some in the area would rather take 2 bucks (voluntarily now to be over 1.5 yrs old and basically meeting ARs) and not take any doe at all.  those hunters still haven't been convinced it's ok to take a doe.  so for them you'd be saying they can only shoot one deer a season without even a chance at taking another.  it's probably similar state of mind in areas where doe aren't as prevalent, only reluctance is based on actual lower deer numbers opposed to little bit of ignorance.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

i don't think the 1 buck thing is about filling the freezer for those i talked to.  they just like the opportunity at taking a buck as they hunt throughout the season.  many now we've convinced to shoot a doe to fill the freezer, with an emphasis of taking no more than a 1/3 so we're not taking too many.  don't have to tell me you can't eat antlers.  i took 3 doe this past season.  2 for my family and 1 for my parents.  i waited into the season a bit to allow others hunting there an opportunity.  we set a limit for doe harvest on the property based my trail cam survey and then scaled back to meet the comfort level of my dad (owner of the farm).  some in the area would rather take 2 bucks (voluntarily now to be over 1.5 yrs old and basically meeting ARs) and not take any doe at all.  those hunters still haven't been convinced it's ok to take a doe.  so for them you'd be saying they can only shoot one deer a season without even a chance at taking another.  it's probably similar state of mind in areas where doe aren't as prevalent, only reluctance is based on actual lower deer numbers opposed to little bit of ignorance.

I dont get it...They still can take a buck throughout the season. Unless they happen to take the first legal buck they see. Having the choice for 2 bucks gives most hunters the green light to shoot a yearling and then wait for a racker for awhile and then kill another yearling when the racker does not show up. 

[phade]

I was just curious if anyone on here got one, I know two guys, neither serious deer hunters, so they asked me to help fill them out, obviously you can see the problem with that.........shows how flawed the system is when they only select a few out of all the hunters in NY.

 

I don't see a problem with that. Casual hunters are just that, and they have as much a say as I do being a serious hunter. If anything, you should feel better. dbhunter just countered that saying one in his circle got it, and I have to assume that's a serious hunter circle...or you just want to complain and think you know better than Cornell University. Get over it already, the sample process is scientifically sound and accepted within the community of professionals that are responsible for these tasks.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2015 by phade

[jjb4900]

I don't see a problem with that. Casual hunters are just that, and they have as much a say as I do being a serious hunter. If anything, you should feel better. dbhunter just countered that saying one in his circle got it, and I have to assume that's a serious hunter circle...or you just want to complain and think you know better than Cornell University. Get over it already, the sample process is scientifically sound and accepted within the community of professionals that are responsible for these tasks.

apparently you missed the point.........those two casual hunters asked me for my input on certain topics, so they were influenced by an outside source and answered in a way they may not have had they taken time to research on their own.......but I'm sure that's an isolated incident. I'm aware that they more than likely take into account that many surveys won't get returned and that some "cheating" may go on.

Edited January 21, 2015 by jjb4900

[dbHunterNY]

IIRC I think he is in an area with moderate to low permits issued.

 

yea it's 4C and DMPs aren't as prevalent but in the area i hunt there's actually a lot of doe specifically.  much more than bucks and many harvested weren't lactating very early in the season.

[dbHunterNY]

I dont get it...They still can take a buck throughout the season. Unless they happen to take the first legal buck they see. Having the choice for 2 bucks gives most hunters the green light to shoot a yearling and then wait for a racker for awhile and then kill another yearling when the racker does not show up. 

 

until we voluntarily started the co-op with so many jumping on board, that's pretty much the way many hunters seasons went.  right now whether biologically sound or not some still choose not to take a doe so they feel they'd be limited to one deer a year.  seems self inflicted but it is what it is.

[phade]

apparently you missed the point.........those two casual hunters asked me for my input on certain topics, so they were influenced by an outside source and answered in a way they may not have had they taken time to research on their own.......but I'm sure that's an isolated incident. I'm aware that they more than likely take into account that many surveys won't get returned and that some "cheating" may go on.

 

You do realize that them seeking your input is the same as him going online or talking to biologists, etc. on their own, There's no difference to them talking to you or researching on their own - they're both situations where influence is being sought. All bias inputs are the same - thus you are only working with one variable, which is certainly accounted for.

[jjb4900]

You do realize that them seeking your input is the same as him going online or talking to biologists, etc. on their own, There's no difference to them talking to you or researching on their own - they're both situations where influence is being sought. All bias inputs are the same - thus you are only working with one variable, which is certainly accounted for.

I don't think seeking my advice can be compared to a biologist or a semi thought out online study, but I appreciate the thought....I don't doubt anything you're saying. I just was a little surprised when I heard from these guys....my first thought was "I hope these aren't the type of hunters who are going to be the majority voice", followed by the thought of telling them to do some research on their own...what happened is I just told them what they should be for and against........I'm sure I'm not alone in being a little frustrated for not getting to participate in the survey, but it is what it is.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

until we voluntarily started the co-op with so many jumping on board, that's pretty much the way many hunters seasons went.  right now whether biologically sound or not some still choose not to take a doe so they feel they'd be limited to one deer a year.  seems self inflicted but it is what it is.

Very self inflicted and nothing about the QDM would change and really if there are a lot of does as you say then it may very well affect it because of to many does. Thats a mind set that they will change..They are Ok with killing 2 baby bucks but wont shoot a 6-7 year old doe?

[phade]

I don't think seeking my advice can be compared to a biologist or a semi thought out online study, but I appreciate the thought....I don't doubt anything you're saying. I just was a little surprised when I heard from these guys....my first thought was "I hope these aren't the type of hunters who are going to be the majority voice", followed by the thought of telling them to do some research on their own...what happened is I just told them what they should be for and against........I'm sure I'm not alone in being a little frustrated for not getting to participate in the survey, but it is what it is.

Thats the thing, everyone wants their two cents in when it doesnt statistically change the results.

[The_Real_TCIII]

I got a survey from Cornell, is that what you guys are referring to?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I got a survey from Cornell, is that what you guys are referring to?

Could be. What does it ask about. Would love to see it scanned and posted

[The_Real_TCIII]

It seemed like it was for new hunters, not sure why I got it. I'll try to post it tomorrow from my PC

[The_Real_TCIII]

I cant get back to it because its completed. this was the email:

 

You recently received an email asking for your participation in completing a questionnaire about new and emerging hunters who are over the age of 18 years old, in New York State. Our records show that you have not yet completed the survey and we want to give you another opportunity to participate. Please take a moment to answer this brief survey to help us better understand your experiences with and opinions about hunting in New York State.

This survey is voluntary and is strictly confidential. Under no circumstances will your individual responses be made available to anyone. All the information you provide will be used in aggregate form only.

To access the survey, use the following link:

(This is a unique URL only for you - please do not forward this link to anyone else.)

Please make sure you press the "Submit Survey" button once you have completed the survey.

If you have any questions about the survey, please do not hesitate to contact staff at the Survey Research Institute at 607-255-3786 or [email protected].

Thank you very much.

Richard C. Stedman, Ph.D. 
Associate Professor
Director, Human Dimensions Research Unit
Department of Natural Resources
Cornell University

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I cant get back to it because its completed. this was the email:

 

You recently received an email asking for your participation in completing a questionnaire about new and emerging hunters who are over the age of 18 years old, in New York State. Our records show that you have not yet completed the survey and we want to give you another opportunity to participate. Please take a moment to answer this brief survey to help us better understand your experiences with and opinions about hunting in New York State.

This survey is voluntary and is strictly confidential. Under no circumstances will your individual responses be made available to anyone. All the information you provide will be used in aggregate form only.

To access the survey, use the following link:

(This is a unique URL only for you - please do not forward this link to anyone else.)

Please make sure you press the "Submit Survey" button once you have completed the survey.

If you have any questions about the survey, please do not hesitate to contact staff at the Survey Research Institute at 607-255-3786 or [email protected].

Thank you very much.

Richard C. Stedman, Ph.D. 

Associate Professor

Director, Human Dimensions Research Unit

Department of Natural Resources

Cornell University

It was an online survey?

[phade]

It was an online survey?

 

LOL.

 

I don't think the one we are all talking about is brief and I bet that's where they draw the line.

 

That is interesting though.

[dbHunterNY]

Very self inflicted and nothing about the QDM would change and really if there are a lot of does as you say then it may very well affect it because of to many does. Thats a mind set that they will change..They are Ok with killing 2 baby bucks but wont shoot a 6-7 year old doe?

 

i guess they kind of don't take baby bucks now because they have volunteered to be part of this co-op where we have antler restrictions.  I mean they're shooting 2.5 yr olds and up, unless it's a first time hunter that's never taken a buck.  if that's the case they get a free first time pass.  we just ask that it not be a button buck and if willing, try to shoot one meeting the restrictions.  that's worked well enough.  most have come around to accepting doe harvest to varying degrees, partially do to the number of doe around.  before the co-op got up and running some in the area were told "don't worry about taking too many doe. just shoot'em." wrongfully and ignorantly saying that was what QDM will preach.  so they were even more apprehensive.  we've since corrected this saying you're actual goal as a group is to only harvest a percentage, why, and for all intensive purposes we've said that's about a 1/3 of adult doe (25-36%) right now.  told them various ways to figure out that approximate number through casual observation (not during hunting season) including more scientific means like trail camera surveys.  now most are coming around acceptance wise because they can make sense of it all.  in turn they're now more accepting of buck harvest restrictions like ARs, especially when similarly given some logic as to why.

 

on the other side of the coin in areas where fewer deer are present ARs are a hard pill to swallow because many look at how short term opportunity is effected; fewer deer making it hard to shoot one, and now saying you can't shoot with every opportunity that comes.  however, without a good population of bucks to breed doe with better recruitment of fawns it'll take longer for numbers to grow.  Then without improving habitat, numbers will grow in surrounding areas.  deer will go somewhere else that has habitat to better support them, that's how they instinctually survive.

 

I'm sure you some of this.  I'm thinking it's for others to read too.

 

[dbHunterNY]

I don't think seeking my advice can be compared to a biologist or a semi thought out online study, but I appreciate the thought....I don't doubt anything you're saying. I just was a little surprised when I heard from these guys....my first thought was "I hope these aren't the type of hunters who are going to be the majority voice", followed by the thought of telling them to do some research on their own...what happened is I just told them what they should be for and against........I'm sure I'm not alone in being a little frustrated for not getting to participate in the survey, but it is what it is.

 

I suppose it works out though.  they're opinions weren't strong enough to do it on their own and look into anything they were unsure of.  if they didn't care about the survey then they don't really care about the outcome to survey is trying to help determine should be.  they asked another, you, who does care about the outcome the survey effects and indirectly your input is now apart of the results.  so as long as it's completed it works by design, pending they where selected at random and spread out throughout NY.  I know where you're coming from I would've liked to participate too.  reality is DEC would welcome your feedback and review everyone's as a whole if they had the man power and resources to do so.  it's easy to get the info but much harder to do something with it as you could imagine.

[Lakehudson]

Agreed.. One antlered deer would benefit the herd in general for years to come. Although perhaps it will make hunting a little more difficult for 1-2 seasons.But in the long run it would significantly benefit not only our herd but our sport in general. A particular habitat can only sustain a particular balance of deer numbers. I believe one thing we can all agree on is that our buck to doe ratio is way out of balance( I know some guys are gonna tell me they saw more bucks than does this season) but that may have been from your deer stand. Think of the shear numbers we see while scouting or just driving to and from work during feeding hours. I've been fortunate to hunt areas with 2-1 or even 1-1(Kansas) and populations balance out. I respect all the meat hunters out there and I thank you for your devotion to our sport. But the fact is.. Deer numbers will stabilize and over all we would have a healthier herd. When buck to doe ratios are in balance deer activity increases. Which in turn will generate hunting we do not get to experience here in NY( most areas ) states like Kentucky, Iowa,Kansas and Montana are not suffering from such regulations. Hunters fill there freezers and statistically have a legit chance at shooting a trophy class deer. I'm not saying that any change in our buck limit is the final solution, but atleast it's a start. It's always a work in progres and to insure the future hunters ( our kids ) to continue to enjoy this sport.

Believe me.. I get it.. A big rack means nothing to many guys. But what if you were seeing them on a regular basis .. I'm willing to bet even the meat hunter shoots the wide racked 10 pt with long tines even if he's standing next to poorly genetic(rack wise) 6pt with a much bigger body and muscle mass.

Our hunting opportunities will be the same.. Just with a better more balanced herd.

As for antler restrictions.. I see it has improved the buck quality in PA.. I personally have hunted by those standards since my early 20's but I understand that many hunters don't get the ample time in the woods. I've always had the feelings that if your happy... I'm happy for you. I just don't agree with people taking 2 spikes and a 4pt in one season. And unfortunately it happens way too often. The young upcoming bucks are decimated year after year here in NY. How many meat hunters shoot a second or third young buck while they are standing with several does. ( I'm not saying all of you) but it does happen to often

That's not quality hunting.. But it's just what so many NY hunters are used to seeing and doing.

Are we sportsman?

Don't we want a healthier herd.

I guess as much as I would be ok with AR it's only because it wouldn't change my hunting tactics. And yes it would stop my neighbors from removing bucks that I pass every year.. But like I said.. If it makes you happy shooting any antlered deer than that's your prerogative

Bottom line... Don't be afraid of change

In ten years we may all be talking bout how we wish things changed in the 90's... Give it a chance.. Only we can make things better..

What's more important is that we all get out an vote.. We the hunters are really the only ones that can make the necessary difference.

For us.. Our kids.. Our sport.. And the wildlife

I wish you all a healthy and safe 2015 season

the DEC already tells you a lot of things. I also firmly believe that if deer were to magically lose their antlers you'd see 70% of hunters give it up. I hunt for meat first. But I love a rack. While it does not apply to some parts of the state, shooting a doe is usually easier and better tasting.

the trophy folks are what has helped keep hunting going. Organization and money are very powerful. Look at crossbows for an example. The NRA is another example. While we may not all agree with their methods and all their ideas and goals, they generally help the sport. The outdoor and sportsman channel and all the magazines would not make money if hunters weren't interested in "trophies". I'd bet my Heuer that meat hunters don't read a lot of magazines and watch a lot of shows. They've most likely had their skills passed down to them. They do the same thing they've always done and they kill deer every year. Sometimes they get big bucks, but they're not running out and spending hundreds or thousands on gear.

Look at Kentucky as a case study. the one buck rule brought that state back and it's now a destination for many out of state hunters. While the first few years of ARs will suck, i believe the end game will see better bucks and more interested hunters.

your humble opinion is not fact, but studies in Kentucky are. do some research and get back to me

[phade]

I have more exposure to hunters I know in Kentucky than anywhere else other than NY.

 

The bucks they've taken this year are phenomenal.

 

KY doesn't have AR though, but do have OBR. Interestingly their gun season is pretty crappy timing.

[G-Man]

Any other species but cervid(hoofed deer,including elk,moose ect) we hunt is closed during their mating season,turkey (majority of breeding is done in April), fox breed in march,coyote in april, you want more and bigger bucks close the season during the rut.

[gjs4]

I will sleep better w dreams of booners knowing all the 3 pts are protected.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[First-light]

Looks like the DEC is sending out a survey to new hunters. Saw this on another site.