Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[Terry]

May I ask what site?

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I couldn't beleive the overwhelming support for AR and no support for OBR on hudson valley sportsman forum.

[G-Man]

If they go to a quick rule I expect the bow hunting an muzzleloader privilege to cost much less, 5 bucks is a good number.. I think it will cause a huge hit to the dec income.

[phade]

I couldn't beleive the overwhelming support for AR and no support for OBR on hudson valley sportsman forum.

 

I don't think that is surprising...the local QDMA branch there had been pusing for AR for a long time I believe and several participate in that forum in big volume. You see alot of them yelling for statewide AR, and not much about regionalizing it if it is deemed necessary/wanted. It's also geographically closer to the AR areas so I am sure some crossover exists.

 

No idea on the OBR thing - DEC puts OBR support at 50% statewide approximately. I wonder if they broke out the regional submissions if wNY was more pro OBR whereas that region was pro AR, for those who were pro anything.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Any other species but cervid(hoofed deer,including elk,moose ect) we hunt is closed during their mating season,turkey (majority of breeding is done in April), fox breed in march,coyote in april, you want more and bigger bucks close the season during the rut.

Yeah? Don't know anything really about Elk and Moose hunting but I sure see a lot of shows where they are calling in both  for fight challenges and cow calls. Are they hunting pre-rut?

[First-light]

May I ask what site?

LI deer hunting fb page

[dbHunterNY]

the new hunter one I've been told is pretty much for female or minority hunters that are new.  it's one of 2 recent surveys DEC is conducting through Cornell.  I don't think we'll see either results effect anything until 2016 though.

[The_Real_TCIII]

the new hunter one I've been told is pretty much for female or minority hunters that are new.  it's one of 2 recent surveys DEC is conducting through Cornell.  I don't think we'll see either results effect anything until 2016 though.

Well im a 43 year old white guy thats been hunting since '94, but I filled it out anyway lol! I wonder how I got on their list

[Culvercreek hunt club]

the new hunter one I've been told is pretty much for female or minority hunters that are new.  it's one of 2 recent surveys DEC is conducting through Cornell.  I don't think we'll see either results effect anything until 2016 though.

wonder how they are doing that. I can see them using the ID (like the driver's License) to focus on sex, but the DL and the hunting documentation doesn't indicate race.

[phade]

the new hunter one I've been told is pretty much for female or minority hunters that are new.  it's one of 2 recent surveys DEC is conducting through Cornell.  I don't think we'll see either results effect anything until 2016 though.

 

Told by the DEC? That's an interesting survey design.

[G-Man]

i went back trough camp records, and there have been 23 yearling antlered bucks taken in last 3 years, 4 have had less than 3pt on a side,but 17 are yearling buck 5pt or better, i dont see how a 3 pt rule will change anything here, or help protect yearling buck in this area.. waste of time for a feel good law

[phade]

i went back trough camp records, and there have been 23 yearling antlered bucks taken in last 3 years, 4 have had less than 3pt on a side,but 17 are yearling buck 5pt or better, i dont see how a 3 pt rule will change anything here, or help protect yearling buck in this area.. waste of time for a feel good law

 

4 points a side...that's the breaking point with AR in the 8 and 9 regions.

 

Not sure many people would like to see that...I suspect that would change support levels quite a bit because most people don't realize that a 3 a side rule wouldn't move forward the necessary 1.5s at the pre-set rate for success by the other AR wmus.

[G-Man]

4 points a side...that's the breaking point with AR in the 8 and 9 regions.

 

Not sure many people would like to see that...I suspect that would change support levels quite a bit because most people don't realize that a 3 a side rule wouldn't move forward the necessary 1.5s at the pre-set rate for success by the other AR wmus.

that would be bad here as we have killed mature 4 pt 21in inside spreads, and 6pts with 18 inside. we have a bad gene pool that are missing brow tines, bee that way since 93' a 5 year old 6 pt is hard to kill it doesnt care about how many points are on its head, we try and concentrate on deer with no brows in general. i do not like being generalised into the statrs plans as they young brow deficient deer would continue on the trait we have been trying to eliminate..

[dbHunterNY]

Well im a 43 year old white guy thats been hunting since '94, but I filled it out anyway lol! I wonder how I got on their list

 

 

wonder how they are doing that. I can see them using the ID (like the driver's License) to focus on sex, but the DL and the hunting documentation doesn't indicate race.

 

 

Told by the DEC? That's an interesting survey design.

 

no idea how they figure it out.  Cornell extension contact mentioned something along those lines that a goal was to get a look at results from women and minorities who are new hunters opposed to white males that maybe started late in life.  due to printing or something he said changes or results won't be seen until at least 2016 for the survey though.

[phade]

no idea how they figure it out.  Cornell extension contact mentioned something along those lines that a goal was to get a look at results from women and minorities who are new hunters opposed to white males that maybe started late in life.  due to printing or something he said changes or results won't be seen until at least 2016 for the survey though.

 

That's really interesting. I've not seen much research into that, so that is pretty cool.

 

How was the guy/girl? Were they pretty friendly when you spoke with them? I would have picked their brains alot lol.

[dbHunterNY]

4 points a side...that's the breaking point with AR in the 8 and 9 regions.

 

Not sure many people would like to see that...I suspect that would change support levels quite a bit because most people don't realize that a 3 a side rule wouldn't move forward the necessary 1.5s at the pre-set rate for success by the other AR wmus.

 

 

that would be bad here as we have killed mature 4 pt 21in inside spreads, and 6pts with 18 inside. we have a bad gene pool that are missing brow tines, bee that way since 93' a 5 year old 6 pt is hard to kill it doesnt care about how many points are on its head, we try and concentrate on deer with no brows in general. i do not like being generalised into the statrs plans as they young brow deficient deer would continue on the trait we have been trying to eliminate..

 

before having land in a co-op 4 points to a side was many hunters breaking point.  we ran with 3 points to a side for a while and we were taking lots of 1.5 year old deer with basket racks.

 

that's the bad part about ARs with only higher # of points and no beam length, opposed to a lower # of points with a beam length/spread restriction.  for the co-op we're on we have restrictions of minimum 3 pts on both sides and 15" outside spread.  other co-ops in the area of 4C have that as well.  it seems to be working out well for the purposes of taking 2.5 yr old deer and up, leave enough bucks for the doe.  if the state was to put ARs on the table this would be what I want and now I think it'd probably be a good idea to have a higher spread or beam length that allows harvest if it doesn't meet the points quantity minimum.  not sure what that would be.  15" outside is easy because it's close to as wide as ear tip to tip.  maybe there's a beam length associated with beams extending to nose from broadsided view? idk

 

that said we've always had bucks without brows, even before restrictions, and they seem to always be the first to go.  we still get them here and there though.  after almost 20 years we've figured out it's near impossible to eliminate those genes from the free range herd.  the small number of "scrub" bucks we get with few points at an older age are a drop in the bucket when it comes to genes of the herd I suppose.  we just continue on and not worry about it.

 

[dbHunterNY]

That's really interesting. I've not seen much research into that, so that is pretty cool.

 

How was the guy/girl? Were they pretty friendly when you spoke with them? I would have picked their brains alot lol.

 

it was during a meeting that usually is pretty lengthy.  if we don't move topic to topic we'd be there all night so no I didn't.  I'm not sure if he knew anymore but I'm sure i'll find out.

Edited February 9, 2015 by dbHunterNY

[phade]

before having land in a co-op 4 points to a side was many hunters breaking point.  we ran with 3 points to a side for a while and we were taking lots of 1.5 year old deer with basket racks.

 

that's the bad part about ARs with only higher # of points and no beam length, opposed to a lower # of points with a beam length/spread restriction.  for the co-op we're on we have restrictions of minimum 3 pts on both sides and 15" outside spread.  other co-ops in the area of 4C have that as well.  it seems to be working out well for the purposes of taking 2.5 yr old deer and up, leave enough bucks for the doe.  if the state was to put ARs on the table this would be what I want and now I think it'd probably be a good idea to have a higher spread or beam length that allows harvest if it doesn't meet the points quantity minimum.  not sure what that would be.  15" outside is easy because it's close to as wide as ear tip to tip.  maybe there's a beam length associated with beams extending to nose from broadsided view? idk

 

that said we've always had bucks without brows, even before restrictions, and they seem to always be the first to go.  we still get them here and there though.  after almost 20 years we've figured out it's near impossible to eliminate those genes from the free range herd.  the small number of "scrub" bucks we get with few points at an older age are a drop in the bucket when it comes to genes of the herd I suppose.  we just continue on and not worry about it.

 

 

Voluntary ARs are one thing, mandating ARs to the gen pop with points and spread restrictions, that's another. I know some southern states do that and it just boggles my mind how that is done effectively in the real world. My head would explode if I needed to count points and assess spread on a buck in a hunting condition when legality depends on it - its one thing for personal/voluntary purposes, yet another when a freaking citation is on the line. I have to believe that's a pretty complex standard by which to assess harvestable deer, and I don't think complex is what NY needs. If regs are to be implemented, it should be relatively simple to understand and implement and for the hunters to follow-through with.

Edited February 9, 2015 by phade

[NYBuckHunter27]

When do we think we could hear a final decision on all this? 

[dbHunterNY]

Voluntary ARs are one thing, mandating ARs to the gen pop with points and spread restrictions, that's another. I know some southern states do that and it just boggles my mind how that is done effectively in the real world. My head would explode if I needed to count points and assess spread on a buck in a hunting condition when legality depends on it - its one thing for personal/voluntary purposes, yet another when a freaking citation is on the line. I have to believe that's a pretty complex standard by which to assess harvestable deer, and I don't think complex is what NY needs. If regs are to be implemented, it should be relatively simple to understand and implement and for the hunters to follow-through with.

 

I definitely understand when you say it needs to be simple.  it's really not that complex though.  if we can get 11,000+ acres worth of "if it's brown it's down" hunters (we're talking hundreds) across a few townships to work with it, as well as those in southern states, then the rest of NY state hunters will do just fine.  i wouldn't sell their capabilities too short.  that is in areas where ARs would be useful.  one problem you have is the simpler you get with restrictions the less effective they are and less biologically sound they are.  you have to understand that DEC wouldn't implement new changes like that and then crucify you if your buck comes close to the minimum say maybe spread wise or if one point wasn't 1" or more per their current standards.

 

if everyone thinks it needs to be simpler then I'd say it'd have to be 4 points on a side like half of Missouri.  3 in my mind doesn't do it.  even then what do you do with bucks like G-Man shoots, symmetrical 4 or 6 pointers with spreads out past the ears?  you let them walk maybe for life and spread their DNA or you come up with something else like spread or beam length to give a hunter the green light.

 

[dbHunterNY]

When do we think we could hear a final decision on all this? 

 

i was told the first survey and this other "New hunter" survey are still being processed.  also i think it was said the company that does all of DEC's printing usually has a back log of stuff from everywhere.  so 2016 was what I was told, which would also correspond with the management plan they put out that nominally ends in 2016.

[phade]

I definitely understand when you say it needs to be simple. it's really not that complex though. if we can get 11,000+ acres worth of "if it's brown it's down" hunters (we're talking hundreds) across a few townships to work with it, as well as those in southern states, then the rest of NY state hunters will do just fine. i wouldn't sell their capabilities too short. that is in areas where ARs would be useful. one problem you have is the simpler you get with restrictions the less effective they are and less biologically sound they are. you have to understand that DEC wouldn't implement new changes like that and then crucify you if your buck comes close to the minimum say maybe spread wise or if one point wasn't 1" or more per their current standards.

if everyone thinks it needs to be simpler then I'd say it'd have to be 4 points on a side like half of Missouri. 3 in my mind doesn't do it. even then what do you do with bucks like G-Man shoots, symmetrical 4 or 6 pointers with spreads out past the ears? you let them walk maybe for life and spread their DNA or you come up with something else like spread or beam length to give a hunter the green light.

Im sorry but using your example of private entity vs. Public isnt even relevant. Doing private voluntary things are way easier than public regulation. I dont also see how less complex a restriction is the less biologically sound it is? I dont even see how one could make that assessment. A restriction is either sound or not sound for the purpose its intended for. It seems like you are confusing the purpose of such a reg to begin with, which probably has to do with the focus on private entity voluntary actions.

Other states using it is a fine example but come off of any coop exampling. Its apples and oranges.

Edited February 10, 2015 by phade

[SteveB]

When do we think we could hear a final decision on all this?

2045 with a little luck.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

When do we think we could hear a final decision on all this? 

The outdoor news said you will see the new regs in print this summer in time for fall. They will blow this through so it law this year.  

 

More hunters will have to take time and really look before they shoot. Wont see as many wounded stories maybe?

[stoneam2006]

IMO all this is going to do if it's passed it make it so even more deer go untagged or unreported...hope it gets shot down we don't need more rules